Thanks Gabzz for taking the time to read my H's thread.

We're doing well, but as you know, it is a very difficult thing to get over, and I still have very sad moments when I just can't quite believe what has happened to us.

As you said, communication is key, and there is a revolution going on in our M on the O&H communication front.

I feel that if we can get through this and carry on putting the work in, that we can have a great marriage.

Thanks again for taking the time to catch up with my situation.

xx

Hi Just Learning

Thanks so much for your post, so sorry i didnt get back to you sooner, i was doing a bit of soul searching over the weekend!

I will answer your questions as best i can.

We have been sleeping in seperate rooms for over two years, it started with his snoring, it really was bad and i would go into the spare room, at the same time things were not good between us, we were drifting apart. I ended up staying in the other room on a permanent basis.

He told me two years ago that he was finished with the marriage, he said he was sick of my sarcastic remarks, LB and DJ going on all the time, the time i spent with my dad, the fact that i had moved out of the bedroom etc. He said he had no emotional feelings left for me and that we should stay together until our D is 18 and then split up, he reckoned that at this stage we could sell the house and split the proceeds, she is 15 now.

I never wanted to split up from him, i do love him and i know he loved me at some stage but somehow along the way with all the hurt and resentment that had been built up over the years has just eroded the relationship between us.

we live as husband and wife to anyone who knows us, his friends or family dont know we sleep seperatly well at least i dont think they do :), my H is very private and would rather keep up the pretense than have anyone know this ?????. When things got really bad between us a while before i came back here, i went and sought legal advice, my brothers partner works for a solicitor and she directed me there. I told my husband i had gone and his first response was "now she will know our business and will probably tell everyone" well duhhhh, if we split up everyone is going to know anyway!

As far as i am concerned we still are man and wife, we have never gone anywhere without each other in the 21 years we are married so when he came home and told me he was going on a golf trip with a bunch of lads 15 of them to spain i went mad, i told him he had better not etc but in the end he went anyway and it has upset me a lot. Sere and Hope have been giving me great advice and without them i dont know how i would have managed not to forget our mutual friend Frank, we speak chat via email, what a guy, i was so delighted to see his name on the boards when i came back here, he is fantastic and i just love him, he is brilliant

Anyway i was doing a great plan A right up to the night before the trip and then i blew it! I have been speaking to him via text and he rang home yesterday (Monday) to chat with me and the kids and it was as if the night before he went didnt happen at all, he was saying how great a time he was having and how much his belly hurt from all the laughing with the guys, what bothers me the most JL is the lack of communicaiton between us, he didnt ask me did i mind him going he just told me he was going end of story and if i didnt like it then tough.

He arrives back home tomorrow night.

If there is any bits i left out please let me know.

Thanks for your help.


Gabrielle

Heading off for my walk before it gets dark Sere, i will be back on later to update.

xxx Gabrielle

Hi Sere,

I know exactly where you are coming from, it is hard tocome to terms with,its like your worse nightmare only its for real. You are very focused, you seem to know exactly what your husband needs to do to put this right and he seems to be doing everything in his power to put it right.

The hurt will last for a long time, its going to be hard at times but if you both put the work in you will get through this. Sometimes there will be triggers that will set you back but if your H has been looking after you 100% then i feel it will be easier for you to bear.

I hope and pray for you both that you survive this with a really strong marriage.

Gabzz,

Lots to say, and since you are the one here the comments will be addressed toward you. I don't want you to think I consider all of this your fault, but I am going to address where I think things have gone off the rails so to speak.

Let's start with a very very big misconception your part. You said

Gabzz, you are soooooo wrong here. You two have been communicating just fine. Both of you are getting your messages across on all levels. Allow me to offer you examples. He said

He also said


Do any of these messages seem ambigous to you? They sure don't seem to me to be confused. THey seem very clear in the content and intent.

Now let's look at some of the things you have said This isn't something you said directly but I feel you conveyed a message to him that he got clearly


Any room for misinterpretation in these comments? I don't think so. You may notice that I include your and his actions as comments/communications. I'd say you two have pretty much told each other what you think of one another and how you interpret the actions of one another.

So your problem is NOT miscommunications nor is it communications at all. Now you both are short on mindreading and I would suggest you sharpen up your skills at this...if you can. But, failing the mindreading, you two need to really decide what you want and why you want it and then develop a plan the conveys these goals IF THEY ARE IN FACT DIFFERENT THAN YOU HAVE COMMUNICATED TO ONE ANOTHER SO FAR.

YOu see a plan includes goals, actions, words, checkpoints, eveluation points, and understanding. Nothing is going to change unless something does change. YOu two have stated your feelings for one another, and nothing either of you have said or done suggests that anything has changed.

Gabzz, when Sere and others talked to you about plan A, and meeting needs, and avoiding love busters, they were right, they were only right if you really have a clearly defined goal and good reasons for that goal. It would seem to me you don't.

You are mad because he left to play golf with a bunch of guys. He is mad because you left to sleep by yourself 2 years ago and have not come back, and apparently not even given him the courtesy of a call to explain what is going on, like he did. It is "raining" where he is, which is really strange because as a golfer I can tell you "it never rains on a golf course" Now it might lightening, cause for getting off, but water...that is not rain really.

Please think about this, and then begin to decide what your goals really are. Once those are established, then a plan can be constructed.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Wanting your H back, whatever that means is not a goal. It is simply a state of being. THink about it.

Hi Gabzz, just checking in. Liked what was said above.

I am not a vet and as you know WH is divorcing me so I can only make suggestions. Like the goal based solution otherwise you can Plan A till the cows come home but you probably need to be more direct.

Most important a game plan to get back in the bedroom. Get earplugs but get in there. I know that is the most difficult thing to do because it is a matter of pride and rejection but that is something to work towards.

You are doing great walking but also what about the salsa class? You go girl.

take care. Had a good chat with our mutual friend last night. Got alot out of it. take care.

Hi Gabzz,

where are you? Is your H home?

Let us know how you are?

Thinking of you,

xx

Hi Hope and Sere,

Thanks for looking out for me

The post from Just Learning gave me a lot to think about, I will reply to it shortly and tell you what i am feeling.

Well, he arrived home last night, full of the joys of spring telling us how great a time he had, he said the weather was crap but he still had a really great time with all the lads.

In hindsight i dont know why i was getting myself all worked up about I actually enjoyed the fact that he was not there, i walked like crazy, really worked hard at the weight watching and the results are starting to show I have dropped from a size 24 to 18/20 so i am delighted with that. He brought me home a botle of perfume which i was delighted with, i gave him a hug and thanked him for it.

Hi Gabzz,

well done on dropping the dress sizes. That's so good. Real progress, and the tone of your post sounds much more positive. Plan Gabzz is bearing fruit. Go Gabzz Go!

Nice of your H to bring you the perfume too.

Looking forward to reading your update.

x

Hi JL,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I cannot speak for my H because he keeps his cards very close to his chest so i dont know how he feels. I have not asked him how he feels about me since the time he said he had no feelings left for me, i suppose i am afraid of what he will tell me.

For now, i have to do this on my own because i dont know weither he wants to work on the marriage or not. I did tell him a short while ago how i felt about him, he said nothing. and when i asked him how he felt about what i said, he replied that he had taken it on board.


I decided in January that i was really going to do my best to Plan A, cut out all the LB, DJ etc, meet his top EN which is Admiration, i thought i was doing well enough at this but you are SO RIGHT about the plan and all that it entails. In the beginning i was keeping a diary of the positive things i was doing and saying to and for him, like if i complimented him on his physical appearance, on being a good dad, on being a good provider, and lots of other things. Then if there was any positive reactions to it i would write it down, by doing this i could see if there was a positive reaction and also if there was no reaction, but i stopped keeping account of this at the end of the first month. I need to start this again NOW.

I so so want to renew our marriage, i dont want to spend the rest of my life without him, i love him very much, i know i have a tough job ahead of me but i do think we could make it work if he was open to it, i just need to convince him that it is worth saving and renewing to a better marriage than the one we had. I do need all the help i can get to formulate the plan so if you could help me out i would really appreciate it.


I nearly drove myself mad because of this trip and i couldnt understand why it was bothering me so much but now i realise it was because i knew he was going away with all the lads and he was not feeling good about me or the marriage so i suppose i was afraid he would be tempted to stray again.

It seems my anxiety was for nothing, he just seemed to enjoy having a craic with the lads and he gave me a bottle of perfume too so its not all bad

Gabzz,

NEVER and I mean NEVER ask a man how he feels about what you said, especially after just saying it. Us guys don't have the vocab to express it even if we were inclined to do so. You may want to know how he feels, but you are asking for a reaction that he often doesn't have. Men do take on board what is said, but they need to think about it, and decide what to do with it. You said it, he heard it, he will decide. Yeah, I know it is a pain, but us guys work that way.

You are probably like most women and really like to talk things to death. Us guys don't. Our preferred method of addressing something is to think about it.

You also keep score, look what you were doing with the good things you have done, and then you wanted to keep his score to. Keeping score is not a good thing.

I would say you do know how he feels based on what I quoted to you about his statements. I would say he knew how you felt about him and probably doesn't have a reason for changing that opinion. If you want to save the marriage and enjoy the marriage and being with him, why don't you communicate it with actions and words.

My own thoughts on this would be to apologize to him for your actions before he went. Now most people would say

Can you see the flaw in this apology? I'll tell you, it is that little word "but". You could for example state the same thing in a different manner
In both you told him what set you off, but one convey more information while not detracting from your apology. You got all of the message across in both, however, the second one made the apology more sincere, especially asking for forgiveness.

I would also say, that you might want to tell him your goals. You want to remain married to him. You want this marriage be something he enjoys, you enjoy, and your children (not sure if I recall if you have them) will be proud of. And then you simply start treating him with respect, you start to smile more, you laugh more, you touch him more. Believe me this latter one will get to him, when you talk to him, put your hand on his hand, his arm, shoulder, somewhere. Men are very vulnerable to physical contact with women.

Then you start to lead your life with grace. There is nothing wrong with starting to change the goals and the approach to those goals. But, please remember he is not a mind reader.

Just thoughts I hope some help.

God Bless,

JL

JL, you are another wise man on this board and very practical advice that I need to incorporate into my sitch (maybe it is beating a dead dog but I still try).

Gabzz, this is good advice. We woman do want to talk things to death. Actions speak louder than words. example - H bringing you perfume, this was his way of saying -- I thought of you. :twobyfour: knock knock no words actions.

When is your next night out?? Maybe it will be time for that talk that JL mentioned. Not too chatty, lots of touching, go for it. We have our pride and it destroys us. While my H was still home I made one bad attempt to connect with him physically and he said he would but did not want to give me false hope (before I knew of OW). Well pride made we withdraw and I said don't worry I won't bother you again; so for that last month and 1/2 I lost opportunity to meet his top EN because I did not want to "embarrass myself".

Maybe what I instilled instead that I was not interested in him and that showed it when I shut down. You know woulda, coulda, shoulda. Can't look to the past -- only to the future. You have opportunity with H at home; go for it. I know you are afraid of rejection -- we all our but none of us (including our Hs) are without fault. We will never be perfect but we are goddesses!


On another note; I have a whole wardrobe of size 20s that no longer fit...want to come here on a free shopping trip. You can fill a suitcase! (p.s. I am getting into 16s!)

Thats a great piece of advice JL i am going to remember! even though it will be hard for me to shut up and just leave him with the info

I thought by writing things down that i was making sure i was complimenting him on a regular basis, saying nice things to him etc,i read somewhere (maybe the five love languages?) to keep track what i said, when, was there a positive response etc. As i said earlier it went well for a while and then i stopped. I tend to do things for a while and then stop, i never follow things through and that is what has gotten me into this mess by not being consistent with my loving actions and words towards my H

I will say something to him this weekend about the blow up before the trip, i wont see a lot of him because today he is on 24 hour shift for work and tomorrow he plays golf and then a few beers with the lads and then sunday he is on 24 hour shift again but if he decides to come home early tomorrow evening instead of staying out late with the lads then maybe we could go out for a drink and a chat and i will say something like this:


Yes the forgiveness bit sounds a whole lot better


I didnt tell him what my goals are before because again i read somewhere to make positive changes in myself without telling him what i was doing so that he would see the positive changes in me and change his mind about wanting to work on our marriage, but like you said, he is not a mind reader and by telling him what my goals are i am also telling him how committed i am to working on our marriage right?

Plenty of advice and things to think about JL thank you so much for your help.

Okay Hopie, i got it loud and clear



God, isint pride a pain in the [censored] i am exactly the same, i wont do or say things that i really want to for fear of being rejected. I know my H is the same, especially when i moved out of the bedroom, i didnt think how he would feel by this, all i could think of was that i needed my sleep and i was getting out of there.

I didnt realise (dumb [censored] i know) that this would feel like major rejection to him but i get it now loud and clear! as you said yourself hindsight is a wonderful thing shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Yes we are Goddesses, and shrinking into nice and slim ones at that, thanks for the offer Hopie but i wont be needing size 20, maybe i could borrow some of your smaller sizes though you are doing just great! size 16, thats wonderful you must look amazing. I bet you are getting compliments right left and centre, and you deserve them.

Now I like that ATTITUDE! You go girl. I wish I had someone to give these clothes to. You will find that it gets expensive replacing clothes while you shrink. Pretty soon we will be jogging together!

I love the positive attitudes girls.

Your H's are fools if they don't see what Goddesses they have under their noses.

Well done to both of you.

Gabzz, I am so optimistic for your situation.

Hope, I check in on your thread daily, but haven't posted because you have loads of good advice and support. Just want to say though that you are doing so well, I am in awe of your strength.

Hi Sere,

Thanks for keeping an eye on me you are so thoughtful

Things are ok at the moment here, all is quiet Went out for a few drinks last night with H and had a nice night. I didnt say anything about us though, the timing is not right at the moment, his mam took a bit of a turn the other night and she is in hospital so he has other things on his mind at the moment. I went to visit her with him yesterday and we had a nice day. Things are looking up i think

I know you have been having a bad time the last few days, this is unfortunately what happens when adultry rears its ugly head and for the BS it is a long hard journey to come to terms with what has been done to them, sometimes the paid is unbearable but as time goes on it does get easier.

When my H was away and i was feeling bad i went for a walk on the beach to clear my head, there wasnt another person on the beach but me, or so i thought, in the distance i could see someone come towards me and i knew even at a distance that it was OW he had the affair with and i could feel myself starting to get upset but by the time she passed me by i was ok.

I just walked on by and pretended she wasnt there because as far as i am concerned she is nothing. Now my point about this is.....this affair was 10 years ago so the feelings will always creep up on you but in time you will learn to not let them bother you so much.

Take care of yourself.

Lots of love

Gabrielle x

Hi Gabrielle,

sorry to hear your MIL isn't too well. I hope she feels better soon. You're right, now is not the right time to start talking about your M with H. No need to advise you about being supportive of your H at this time, because I know you will do that naturally anyway, but it is a good opportunity for you to show him how supportive you can be of him. I don't know why, but I feel so very positive for both of you. You can do this!

Thanks for the supportive words. It has been a bad few days. I know from all the reading I have done that they will come and they will go, so it sort of makes it easier. I just wish I could be on an even keel. We've had a lovely day today so I'm now on the ride up the rollercoaster. Just sucks that I know that a steep drop awaits me at some point. That's recovery I suppose.

Keep up all the good work Gabzz. I'm so looking forward to hearing about your personal and marital recovery. I know they are both work in progress.

Speak soon, and love to you xx

Hi Gab...
Nice advice JL... Thanks for taking the time to help.. She's a really special person. It's amazing how the enemy blinds us and leads us to believe that sleeping in a seperate room from our spouse is OK..and how he blinds us from feeing what THEY must feel about it. We did it too... I'm up late and she had to work early.. seemed like the best thing to do for both... not much is worse...

Before we had seperate rooms and would have a fight and went to bed mad... Our spirits minus the "pride" and hurt and anger would gravitate to each other in the middle of the night.... So we started off sleeping hugging the our sides of the bed.....and by morning we would wake wrapped in each other.

When we realized we were doing it... one or both would jump up... :MrEEk:I can't tell you how many times that made us laugh so hard we fell back into bed and "made up"

Sleeping in seperate rooms not only makes this impossible... but the "action" like you said HAS to hurt at least one of the spouses no matter how much they justify.

Boy... if we all knew what we know...I can tell you this... My Grandsons ( 9 ansd 6) are already getting relationship 101 from their Papa... They aren't sure what I mean all the time But... it will be buried in their subconscious in case Papa is upstairs when the time comes for them to use it.
Anyway.. God Bless you JL for all the time you spend here...and all you share of all you know..

GOod Luck and Prayers Frank

I just re-read this passage and something hit me. I think that you husband is really telling you that you have three years to turn this around. He has told you what needs to change: get back in bed, no LBs, no DJs, no sarcasm. He doesn't want people to know that you are having trouble. Could this be because deep down he is not ready to throw in the towel? Do you golf with him?