OH, I asked because I was a little shaken by my talk with my friend yesterday, how I can know someone for years and not pick up on this. That we talk to folks thinking about separation alot here, and I've had several friends IRL got through separation, and I hope that folks consider their personal safety when executing their plan.

Anyhow, I'm glad it's in the open, as you work making new habits. I know that by far the main focus is on new habits today. But I can tell you that it helped me a lot when my H apologized for some incidents in the past.

Three pushes/shoves in 21 years--all over a course of 3 months--the last time being in early 2006 does not an *escalating* habit of "physical abuse" make. I'm not making excuses but I'm cautioning you to THINK before you use labels. This is a typical behavior in the media and a direct cause of the ridiculous level of pc-ness we have today.

At any rate, my more immediate and pressing problem is the anxiety I have over H coming home. I was up most of the night trying to dissect my thoughts--without much success. The best I could come up with is that I'm really fearful that, even if he were to come up with a plan to address the crucial issues I outlined in my letter (money is an issue and though saying "I need you to...." might be a selfish demand, it's not so selfish when we can't pay our bills), that I would not be able to recover the loving feelings I once had for him.

Ears, I agree domestic violence is an issue (I have a friend who was murdered a year ago and we had no clue her ex was violent--or that she'd taken out restraining orders on him in the past).

But I'd appreciate it if we could close the violence topic on this thread. It's an important topic and it probably deserves its own thread. I don't want it on this thread, muddying the waters of advice I badly need.

OH, I'll consider that other topic closed.


OH, that's the basic premise of MB, right? That when our spouses meet our intimate ENs, that the feeling of love returns. I have seen here folks who have been unable to bring back those feelings, but it was when the spouse's effort was inconsisent, hadn't been kept up long enough to make an impact, or when there was an AP in the picture for one or the other.

What do you think?

Oh, or huge extenuating circumstances, like Hold's W.

Hi, OH, this was posted to Luly, but I don't know if you follow that one or not. I thought you may find it relevant.

Ears, that post definitely has some relevance. It's weird--before he left, I was stressed out about figuring out boundaries and communicating that to him--also like Cat, I felt it was really important for H to know how close I was to bailing out.

After I talked to Steve, I realized there were tons of places I could improve on ownership of my 50% and that made me feel more empowered. So I wrote and sent the second letter.

After I spoke to H, I felt good that we'd opened up some important lines of communication. But in a weird parallel world, he's been trying to get his mother to agree that she can't live in her little house on her own anymore with her health deteriorating. His mom, the supreme master manipulator is successfully stiff-arming everyone by politely listening to the reasons she should move, agreeing they have valid points and that she'll consider it and then doing nothing. Yesterday, H went down there and said that she couldn't stick her head in the sand forever. Either she worked with the family to get her to a place where she'd be safer in the event of an emergency and closer to family or if she had another accident and triggered another visit from social services, she could wind up having her decision taken away from her and the family and be put into a nursing home against her will.

So, outlining the boundary seemed to make a difference and it seems that this time around, she might actually do something. But again, in that weird parallel universe, it's going to take the family (H particularly) NOT letting this ball drop, to make it happen. I see a lot of similarities to my own situation here--in process, not content.

On a happier note, I found out this AM I am getting a raise and a promotion. No word on the exact money yet since the owner of the company is not in this AM. But it helped offset the bad news that as of May, our monthly health insurance premiums are going up by $70/month. Hopefully the raise will not only offset that, but be well above that!

Shouldn't I be really excited that he's coming home?

Feelings follow actions. Have you all had any nice connection time today? Maybe over the phone?

A couple of emails. He's headed to his alma mater's satellite store to get t-shirts for the boys and something else (she doesn't wear t-shirts--maybe a pink one...) for DD9. Emailed me to ask about sizes and to relay an odd story about a friend of his--used to be his absolute best friend in college and beyond but dropped off the face of the earth about 5-6 years ago. Sent me a link to a referral to someone posting a job opening--I think that was for him--he wanted to know if I knew the guy. So we had about 3-4 email exchanges today and will probably talk live in about an hour.

So connection time wasn't bad. And I'm not sitting here filled with dread. But I'm not jumping up and down either.

I thought he resented emails? Did that change?

I don't think it's realistic to expect yourself to be jumping for joy. He will earn your trust back, or he won't.

I saw a parallel too, and a lesson, in your H's dealings with his mother.

Firstly in the unsuccessful attempt of a person to exert power over a loved one.

The MIL has choices and the same right as anyone else to take them. Who is the master manipulator?

Secondly confusion over boundaries. "Go to the rest home or *someone else* might put you there" - isn't your H expressing his boundary.

Re domestic violence - I did and do think before posting.

I take it you see no need to apologise, don't think your actions hurt your M or your H, that it's ridiculously PC to consider your actions physical abuse, and don't want to talk about it any more.

OK.

OH, perhaps it may help to try and imagine some of the issues he may be going through right now. He could very well be filled with more dread then you are...and have absolutely know idea how to deal with it. Perhaps the only way he knows how to handle these problems is to convince you the problem doesn't exist...or that it's your fault and not his. Perhaps he afraid to deal with the reality of who he's become. Afraid you'll see him for who he really is and reject him (you seem to see him, but not yet rejected him). Perhaps he has his own resentments and issues that he feels he has no real grounds to talk about right now.

I know you really want to know what he thinks about your feelings and your requests right now, but you may get more of the answers you're looking for if he feels it's safe to tell you the truth. It will probably make things easier for you too if you get a better sense that you're going to get the truth.

He doesn't like relationship talk via email. The emails we've been exchanging are just informational (and just today---sort of fun in a silly way--trying to figure out what happened to his friend with each imagined story getting wilder and wilder and then H saying "this is more fun that the most-likely truth--they we all got too busy to keep in touch over 3000 miles")

His mother has twice fallen and has lain there for hours at a time until she was discovered. The last ER visit triggered a visit by social services. She needs to know the truth---another episode like that means she will loose her rights. How is that manipulation? She's sticking her head in the sand over this.

5/6, I think you are seeing a lot of what I'm saying through your own filters. I am guilty of doing that more often than not. I'm not minimizing or not taking responsibility for my anger--but you have taken every opportunity in this thread to pounce on me where you think I'm weak--and I'm just not going to sit around and let you do it anymore.

You're right--I really have no clue what's going through his head right now and the worst thing to do is to start guessing or assuming. He was positive when we had the talk about the letters. He's been positive about returning to the PT job he has which is something new--he had nothing but terrible things to say about it beforehand--waste of time, not enough money, stupid, etc. It is a lot of those things--it's a lowly hourly call center job but it's an extra $400/mo on top of what remains of his UI and it's nice to see him see it for what it is and not as a measure of his self worth.

I got the feeling OH's point is that she didn't believe she needed to put the abuser label on herself. Sounds fair. There is no classic escalation. Your point seems to be that perhaps that OH's H hasn't been able to express how that particular incident bothered him. Does it sound fair to say that OH can incourage her H to speak to her honestly about things now and in the past, and if that issue comes up, they can deal with it then?

Yes, dkd--I think you have a pretty good assessment here.

How about a reframe?

"Sure, I've pushed her once or twice in anger, but she was just going on and on and wouldn't shut up. . . And yeah, so I shoved her out of bed one night. Big deal. It's not like I slapped her or hit her."

Aggression is mind thing, not a size or gender thing. It's a dangerous road to go down for many reasons. If a stranger couldn't get away with doing that to you, why should you be able to do it to your spouse?

How about you take a deep breath and re-read what I wrote. I did not make excuses for my behavior. I admitted I let my anger get the best of me--I had 3 instances of this in 21 years. I wouldn't call that escalating abusive behavior.

Everyone on this website goes on and on about how it's so great to see a problem, recognize it and address it.

But when the rubber meets the road--you'd all rather just keep 2x4ing me about this.