Because it feels good. Or, it's not a grope, it's a caress.

I think objectively there's no such thing as a grope.

One person's grope is another's caress. The recipient defines it.

I think the toucher is responsible for ascertaining if the touch is pleasant, and the touchee for communicating if it's not.

Mindful of your comments though Mel, I asked my W last night mid-caress if she liked it. As I suspected, she did.

Agreed - I wasn't comfortable with the word grope - it made me feel as if I was trashy. I prefer word "caress." I would add loving caresses because to me that is what it is.

GG

This makes perfect sense. So, then, I guess the next question, after "why do you grope" becomes, "If it's the right thing to do (in so many ways) why won't you stop?"

I can't speak for your husband, only myself. For me, I sometimes feel like it is part control issue. "Groping" feels like my only way of being sexual with my wife. If I give that up, then I turn all control of our sexuality over to her. Which feels like it would leave me completely at her mercy for sex. And, recent history makes me very nervous to do that. It doesn't feel right for me to have no control whatsoever over SF, does it?

Groping is and expression of something in your husband's sensuality/sexuality. I don't know exactly what it it. But, assuming he's bought into MB principles, he's must understand it is a bad idea to continue. Your husband must have a reason that he hasn't explained, maybe hasn't even discovered for himself. If it was really as "flippant" an issue as some comments here have made it out to be, it would be easy to stop. It must mean something more to him than hasn't come out. Or maybe it isn't the "groping" itself that means something, there's a significance to giving it up that means something to him. Your post highlighted the LB it is for you. I don't know how it might be classified, but might there be some LB for him in giving this up?

Obviously something has to change -- status quo is driving a wedge between the two of you. Probably never get to "worst case scenario" kind of thing with the other positives in your relationship.

In the end, I wish I had answers, but I don't. But I hope this helps anyway.

MrShorty, he has pretty much stopped groping altogether but sometimes I have remind him to keep his mitts off the merchandise. We have been through the MB course and we both know the things we need to do to create romantic love in our marriage. We have that part down.

The two things that make a woman want to have sex are a) emotional closeness and b) anticipation of enjoyment. Both of those elements are in place in my marriage and we are both happy with our sex life. The only thing that interferes with it, is it his GROPING.


But groping is not sex. Your partner does have complete control over her own sexuality - as it should be. You have complete control over when and how you have sex, she has to have that too.

How does your wife feel about being groped? What exactly are you calling groping, though? I have a feeling we are talking about different things here. Groping to me is a GRAB while walking by just to cop a feel. I am not talking about him coming up and giving me a kiss and initiating things.

Mel, you are a bit militant, and I say that respectfully, on this subject and I can understand if a man is being inconsiderate and a jerk. I am sure it has been mentioned, but men are visual and physical creatures we like to see and feel. I am no way dismissing the woman's feelings of being turned off by being groped, but why is she turned off by her husband showing that he is turned on by her, that he likes the way she feels. To tell him not to do it is taking away from him something that is natural to mostly ALL men. You are saying..i don't want you to be a man in this area.. I want you to be ME.
Sure..he can be romantic, and sure he can be considerate..those are part of our X chromosome..but we have a BIG Y chromosome too. we can't ignore that. I will agree to respect the woman's body of course, but how do you think it makes a man feel to hear his wife or girlfriend say Don't do that!..

When our S say's "Don't do that", We either value our S or we are behaving without self control.... it really is that simple.

Care
Protection
Time
Honesty

How does "undesired" groping fit into any of those four catagories? It doesn't!

That's the response..i'm talking about feelings..do you not think he feels rejected? I understand the respect part

What kind of a loving spouse would even WANT to engage in an activity he KNEW was so irriating to his wife that she wanted to SLAP HIM? That would be my question. I sure don't want to irriate my H with my behavior.

You know what? I resent being groped so badly that in my last marriage, that the feeling grew to ANY AND ALL TOUCH. I could not even BEAR to have sex with him anymore because I grew to associate his EVERY TOUCH with the resentment I felt when he groped.

You think it made my H feel good to hear my rejections when he wanted to have sex? No, it did not. It broke his heart. But I could not STAND to have him even touch me anymore. I CRINGED when he touched me.

I refuse to allow this marriage to go to hell like that. I care way too much for my H and my marriage to allow resentment to erode our love. In a healthy marriage, complaints are seen as an opportunity to improve, in bad marriages, they are seen as an annoyance.

We have a wonderful, loving marriage with a great sex life and I want to KEEP it that way. So does he!

I am militant when it comes to protecting my marriage, because I have learned from my mistakes. I have learned that a good marriage makes for a good QUALITY of life so it only makes sense that I would protect that, right?


Shaken, with all due respect, that is the approach of a FREELOADER. If "being me" means that I have to engage in behavior that I KNOW hurts my spouse, then my marriage will not last for long. Should I tell my H I am just "being me" when I want to go out on spending sprees, something I KNOW drives him absolutely crazy?

Have you ever read the book Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders? Because the approach you describe is what Dr Harley classifies as a FREELOADER:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

It is not a rejection, though. It is said out of a desire to PROTECT the love in the marriage. That is the logical end of constructive complaints. My H fully understood WHY I told him this and he did not feel rejected. He felt grateful that I told him so he had a chance to STOP the behavior.

Of course I understand the concept. It would be disrespectful to continue in such a manner once it's been made clear it's offensive. I do believe in the romantic part. And just so you know..I don't grope my wife, but she does enjoy me touching her. Is this Don't touch me until I want to be touched or as long as you touch me in the right way it's ok?

Of course, it could be WHAT the person does. My H just flat out grabs my crotch or breast and squeezes. Like one of those honky toys you buy your dog. That's a caress? Hard to see that.

As long as you touch me in the right way I am ok. What I object to are the drive by GRABS. I don't object to a romantic hug and kiss that LEADS TO touching. OR.. when shopping, he will put his arm around my waist and then let it slide when no one is looking. [I know, TMI!] But by the time we get home......

Seriously, I am not FRIGID or unapproachable, we have ALOT OF FUN! In different places.....

Now that's wrong and offensive. I thought we were talking just a joking butt grab

EXACTLY!

Ok I understand you now Mel

So let me get this straight. You are watching TV. You get up to get a coke and your wife is filling the dishwasher. You go over and hug her from behind and squeeze her breasts. Then you pick up your coke and walk back to the couch. Did you just show her love? Did you just make her feel good?

No..that's not what I mean..you have me out of context..

I think groping is fun. Unless you are in a bar and some drunken fool tries it and then ends up going home wearing his teeth as a necklace....but I don't go to bars so I don't have to worry about damaging anyone's dental work.

As far as couples....YEAH, fun!! Groping is a prelude to a hot, passionate quickie, IMO.

Of course the more romantic caress is good, too, when there's ample time for a long, slow session.

I think it's good to have a balance, LOL!!

But yeah, I see it as your spouse or S.O. expressing how HOT they feel you are and how hot you make them. I don't think that's a bad thing (the groping, I mean), but...everybody's different.

Charlotte

Whatta ho!!