Hey L4

Want to post to you, but need to disappear now.

He is still there - you are trying with those ENs. Desperately hard to keep going when you're not getting much back.

Sounds slightly like he is being a bit mean - slight punishment.

But I think you're strong enough - you know your stuff and most importantly he is still there and there are good moments.

Keep reminding yourself of them they'll help you continue.

ST

Hey L4, no real insight to offer, just some chit chat.
While hubby may not admit his need for affection, I think it's right up there in the top 3 or 4, maybe tied with another one. He has let you know that the little gestures, ie. little notes to him, make him feel good. Every human being likes to feel important to someone. You've done a good job with this, keep it up. The little things my H does, go a long way with me, more than H realizes. The short 'one liner' texts that he'll send, I find sweet. With every one, I feel that much safer. Little things, you know.
Seems we are all in the same boat with this one. All we can really do is tighten up our budgets. My shopping is taking a kick buttin'.
7 months into this, and I still question everything, not to the extent and paranoia right after D-Day, but it's there. I still verify, and walk cautiously.
This is one many of us struggle with. Size 10, this is what I am too. Vanity keeps me here. Although we all would like to be size 4/6, we also have to be realistic about our size. We've had kids, we aren't 25 anymore, and life and family take priority with time. Maybe you two can run/walk together, kill two birds with one stone???
You were on a good roll with all of this, you can get back to it. I do understand how frustrating it is.

But PA isn't just about weight. We have to get that out of our head, even though it's pounded into our minds through everything we see around us.
I feel so much better when I've just done my 'toes', or got a new funky hairstyle. I read here that lip gloss does wonders, and IT does.
Only a very shallow man, IMHO, would leave a W for being a whopping size 10. I've not gotten the impression that your H is like this. I think our weight issue is ours. We have to own it. Our mindset will get us to where we want to be. BTW, where the heck is Acey? She is always good for motivation.
Okay, this is just not nice. Do men not realize how sensitive we are, especially about weight.
Have you told H how you feel? This would be in the back of my mind too if H had made a statement like he previously did. Do any of us know what our spouses or ourselves would do until we are actually in that situation? I always thought infidelity would be the deal breaker for me, and I'm still here. If our H's died tomorrow, the only sure thing we need to know is that we will continue to survive, on our own. Life will just different.
I think they are great, you are very determined and stubborn.

I KNOW that I am still holding back. It's only been 7 months. I'm still scared. Scared of false recovery, scared of being lied to and like you my H is being totally transparent, just plain scared of being so hurt again. You've seen progression, slow but it is still progression. I measure in months, not days or even weeks, the healing is not that quick. I know that I am in a better place now than I was 3 months ago, and much better than 3 months prior to that. I look forward to 2011. Maybe that should be your target too.
I worry about the cheating again, for the simple reason that H says he won't do it again. He is slowly getting to the point that he realizing he cheated because of lack of boundaries and selfishness, not because his needs were not being met.
Why have you offered a poly, is there something that he still questions?
Just do the EP's and transparency on your own. H maybe feels like he is treating you like a child by asking for these things.
I can't forgive my H for cheating, not now anyway. Not there yet, still trying to get through the trust issue.
Maybe he is still here for the kids or maybe he is just saying that so as not to feel so vulnerable to you. Ignore it and keep the carrot part of Plan A going.
And I can't believe how stupid my H was, willing to risk so much and hurt us so deeply. A part of me understands but there will always be that part that will never get it. I just don't understand the mentality he was in. I'm sure your H feels the same way. All us BS's share this.
Don't get wore down just yet L4. In 2 yrs time maybe it will be time to reassess your M, this is still so brand new. It takes time. But, I'm not in your M and I really don't know all of the history of it. I do gather there more better times than ugly ones. Could his memory be clouded right now?

I have to stop since I think this will be really long, haven't previewed it yet.
I don't think I can be truly helpful since I'm a BW, and I think men have a slightly different take on a few of the infidelity issues.
I'll reread the last part of your post later and chit chat what I can, FIW.
Hang in there. Patience.

Thanks, RG. I did meet with Dr. H a couple of months ago. My H didn't want to participate. It did help me and I highly recommend it for anyone struggling with issues in their M.

Thank you, Lildoggie and Johnstwin.

I think this is true, TheRoad. Shortly after my confession, I wasn't able to explain things and provided a book for H, marking a chapter that specifically addresses why people have affairs. At the time, H read it and said it was somewhat helpful. Perhaps that has been forgotten. I'll provide the book again or print off things from Dr. H and leave them for him. Maybe that will help. Because what I'm saying doesn't seem to be helping H with the grappling he's doing, yet it's the truth.

I'm trying. As you know, some days are harder than others. And some days are even harder than those. They are harder-er.

You may be right.

I wish my H would do the same.

I'd like to but this hasn't worked for us. H doesn't like to do aerobic accept to sometimes run. I need aerobic and I can't run because of knee and hip injuries. I power walk and this bores H. I have been looking at yoga as H says he may do this too. I'm not loving it but continue to look for something we both may enjoy.

And said to us. And implied to us. And communicated through disapproving eyes as we're looked at up and down. I know I'm disappointing H.

I love the little pampers. It changes my attitude too. I hope that attitude can be attractive.

It is mine. But make no mistake, it's my H's too.

I miss her tremendously.

It is not nice. It haunts me to this day. I'll never for get it.

Yes. A few times.

Who are you calling stubborn? Moi? Guess that's the Taurus in me.

Are you at least fulfilling your H's ENs? Are you keeping his Love Bank on the positive side? I'm on the positive side over all (and wasn't before for a long long time), but it's a low balance that I'm carrying. Can I run at a low balance and not have my Affection and Attention met for two more years? How long can I go without getting it spontaneously without building resentment? I don't know. I'll try.

Yes. He has told me that he doesn't believe there were "just" the two betrayals -- the one pre-M and the one last year. Not something I can prove with phone records or contacting the known FOMs and BW.

I do and will continue.

I share it too. I can't believe I did this, especially to my H. I keep trying to wish it away and you know what? That doesn't work.

Yes. I also think it's his way of controlling. If he admits and recognizes the many good times, he may feel it's like giving in. He lives in a negative world that is out to get him. When he finds evidence to help support his justifications for bitterness or negativity, he holds on to it so he can prove his point. This is a DJ, but it's based on precedence. H clearly sees the bad and easily questions the good.

Please don't question this. You're a person whose opinions I value and whose support I embrace. Thank you, V.

Amen.

"H asked why I didn’t divorce him last summer – after NC had been in place and I was going through withdrawal (we didn’t know this then). I said because I must have known there was something there to make me want to save our M. H said that wasn’t the reason because I wanted to be with the FOM. I said that wasn’t true because FOM had chosen his W and FOM was not an option. I repeated it was because I wanted to see if we could be saved. H said again that that wasn’t true, that I stuck around because I had lost my job and wanted his money. I pointed out that I could get money through alimony and child support and pride would never stop me from going back to waiting tables to survive. I reiterated, there was something still there that I couldn’t let go –"

L4 - Couldn't you really do better than the above????????

As a BS it sounds to me like the OM DUMPED you and you just stuck around with hubby.

Last night I learned a man I knew in college, who was very good friends of several friends of mine, committed suicide by parking on train tracks. He left behind a wife and two small children.

I was really shaken by it. I wanted H. I wanted comfort. I've known too many people who have done this and while it saddens me deeply, it also angers me. Especially when they involve others in taking their life. I was vacillating between wanting to yell at the friend and wanting to cry for him.

At first, H was not there as I needed him. He sat next to me as I shared the news with him. He said he was sorry. Held my hand for a minute. Then said he had to finish his work on the computer and left me alone. I didn't ask him to stay as I didn't know what he could have done, but I wish he would have been more empathetic. So I emailed friends of the friend, trying to comprehend it all. I couldn't stop crying.

Went to bed and crawled into H's arms. He held me tight. I asked him to please make love to me. I needed connection. I needed him. He turned me down. I offered other ways of connecting and he said no. I wasn't mad, but have to admit I was hurt.

A bit later, he awoke and sleepily came to me and we were intimate.

When we were done and I was in his arms, I told him that I love him so much. He was quiet. I asked if he thinks he might ever love me again. He answered, "I don't think I want to."

So sorry about your friend. Please answer my post above.

Ohhhh no L4,


I can't believe he doesn't.

It makes me very angry that he would be intimate and not love you and I don't believe that that is the case.

I'm sorry, I know that doesn't help you.

On the positive side - he may just not be able to admit that he does.

How are you feeling about the M?

L4-

What I hear from your BH is a wounded man who is afraid of being hurt again. That said, I think he does love you, but he is guarded. God can help him take his guard down. Keep praying for your H to release his hurt to God and to be able to find the path of forgiveness-not just to forgive you, but to forgive himself. I'm sure he is hearing all kinds of accusations in his head and heart about not being "good enough." These are from the father of lies and enemy of our soul. Just because your H doesn't share those with you doesn't mean he isn't battling it.
Help him in this battle through your prayers and your continued efforts to show him that you are willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild your M.

Easter is coming (in more ways than one).

I am trying to catch up and stay up on MB today, Believer (and everyone else). Kids are on spring break and have friends over so I'm trying to monitor their play and snacks, I'm trying to keep H calm (he doesn't like having kids running around our house), and also checking-in on my job. Crazy day around the L4 abode.

The FOM did dump me, though we were supposedly on the way to ending things anyway. But yes, it hit like a ton of bricks from out of the blue.

I can see where any BS, including my H, would think I just stuck around. My point of sharing that exchange was more to show that it doesn't matter what I tell my H, if my opinions or reasons are not what he thinks, they are lies, wrong, or invalid.

I know I should have argued that H was my everything and I stuck around because he is THE one. But that wasn't true. H was with me and he knows that I was having problems because I didn't believe I loved H any more. H knew this. We talked about it then and continued to talk about it through MC last fall.

Before OM dumped me and for a few months afterward, I didn't think I wanted to be with my H. I didn't believe I loved H any more. I was preparing to leave, having researched apartments and having found a couple of divorce attorneys. If you read my first posts on this thread, I admit to not being in love with H and feeling love for him only as a friend and as the father of our kids. I have family resources if absolutely needed, I was working at the time as I dumped, and could have been okay financially and materially if I left H. I have examples around me where the second marriage has been better than the first. I had been preparing for the break emotionally for months -- even before the A. But something kept me here. I was a bi*** to live with and was not fun to be around during withdrawal last summer, that's for sure. But I kept begging for marriage counseling, kept asking him to talk with me, and kept looking for reasons to stay. I was holding onto that final straw last August when H finally agreed to MC. I was indeed just sticking around, but I can't tell you why because the reasons why most people stay I had already worked through in my mind. I could have left. But I didn't.

I have chosen H. I have chosen him over a life without him or a life with someone else. I have told him this. I won't lie though and say that last spring and summer H was my everything and I was madly in love with him because I didn't feel that. I didn't feel I loved H. I had an A. And even before the A I was pretty sure we'd be divorced within the year if things didn't change between us. The A, in fact, gave me even more motivation to leave H, not more motivation to stay with him. But something kept me around. Not money. Not security. Not romantic love. Not FOM dumping me. Not even my promise of 'till death do us part. Maybe it was history. Maybe it was the kids. Maybe it was because deep down I still wanted to be with H and my conscious didn't know it.

H is convinced I hated him. I never have hated him and I don't think there is anything he could do to make me hate him. He doesn't believe this. He believes I deeply hated him. I love him. There was a time, sadly, that I didn't think I did. But I did for many many many years and I most certainly do today.

Well, I'm very pleased and very lucky that it still exists. I think we have a chance and I want to grab that chance and run with it. But I don't know anything.

I feel stuck though I'm keep my feet moving. H says he feels he can't move forward and I want to lasso him and drag him behind the car if need be. But that's not fair and that'll get me nothing but a more damaged husband than I have already. We're only 5 months in and the wise MB folks are telling me we're still way early. They see the hope that I otherwise would miss. Between MB and some behaviors exhibited by H, I'm still on the path in the right direction. Otherwise, my post from last Friday provides some explanation of the confusion I'm still working through.

And this is so painful to witness... Knowing I caused it and knowing he won't let me help him.

Okay. Thank you.

Amen! Or as Handel would so gloriously write, "Hallelujah!"

Me too. Go figure eh!

How many years did Mr. L4 not have his needs met? Do you think he went elsewhere to have them met?
Resentment builds if you allow it to. I am the queen in that area. Had I realized where it was taking me, I would have stopped it. But I don't know how, if that makes sense. I understand resentment better now and what an ugly festering piece of pus it is.
Give it time L4, give it time. You are looking for quick fix, and you have had longer to deal with this than H.

While I don't believe a polygraph is the be all to end all, they can serve a purpose. To help restore the faith that someone is capable of telling a truth. I needed one from WH because what I was hearing from him just didn't make sense. I felt like he was telling me only enough to satisfy me and his safety. I could not move 1 inch forward. It felt like a boiling pot of tar inside.
This could very well be what is festering in your H. All the EP's and transparency will mean nothing to him if he believes that he cannot trust what you are saying. If he could believe that you have been truthful about the 2 only A's, then he could believe that you love him.
If H says he doesn't need you to take one, schedule one yourself. Have the examiner come to your home if possible when H will be there. Think about this as an option.
There is a thread on 'Just found out' by Sleepless ???. Read it.

I can relate to this, I agree with johnstwin wholeheartedly.
Remember to not ask questions that you may not like the answer to .... yet. It took me a very long time to roll the word 'love' off of my tongue again.

Let your H decide when and how he wants to roll that word off of his tongue. Keep telling him that you love him, but expect nothing back.

I think he loves you too. He is still there.

Hi L4,

I'm sleep deprived but I thought I would give you a little of the BH insight.

When your H says things like this I see two things. One is that he has probably been loyal to you always because he sees an A as an act of hatred. Two is that he, like me and most people I think, sees love as behavior rather than a feeling. So when you cheated, you clearly hated him since from his perspective it was an act of hate.

In my own marriage, my xWW thought I was very much in love with her because I behaved in a loving way. She thought this even though I never ever in the 10 years after her affair said the word love to her. I also never wore my wedding ring again. I did this intentionally to keep her around for the children, but you can see how people observe actions and then assume the feelings of the other person.

I have to say from reading your posts that I do think you hated your H during and leading up to the A. At a a minimum you did not love him. I guess the more important point is that you do not hate him NOW. We can't undo the past but we can learn from it.

Hey L4,

Good to see you around. Why does BH feel threatened by MB? What does he think MB is about? If you printed out a couple posts from BSs, specifically BHs, and left them somewhere for him to come across , do you think he would read them or just get defensive?

As far as the hate comments and him not wanting to love you, I'd venture to say that most if not all BSs have felt that way. My H never said he hated me but I thought he MUST HAVE to hurt me so badly. It's a struggle to not see it that way. An A sure as heck isn't loving so there's either hate of not caring...neither of which make a BS feel good about himself.

Five months out is still very early even though it feel like forever. As V said, have patience. The wounds are deep and need time to heal.

Your thinking makes sense, 6YL. (Good to see you back, Gpa.) I know my heart and head didn't hate H, but I also didn't love him. And my actions certainly showed no regard for him. I can see how that would be construed as hate.

I've read SleeplessInTx's thread and see what you mean, V, about knowing you have the truth and moving on from there. I want to do the poly and will consider it more now. H gets upset when he clearly states his feelings about something (no to the poly) then I do it otherwise, but maybe this is a case where my IB of doing the opposite would be appreciated.

It's hard for me sometimes to read the posts of BS's on here. It hurts to read their pain and anguish. It also sometimes saddens me to know my H isn't like other BS's -- trying to learn what we can do to save our M. It's good that this is a helpful place for everyone affected by infidelity. I just get a little envious sometimes. I promise I'm not dwelling on it. Not today anyway.

Today I have good news so that's what I'm going to focus on.

First, I have been offered more contracting work. It comes at a time when H and I have been talking of scaling back even more on things -- including some big items we've been saving for so the timing was almost eerie. The job is working for my old company and H says he has no problem with it since FOM no longer works there (and hasn't since July), H and I both respect and like the people who work there, and because the money being offered is very good. (I told you FS is one of H's top ENs.) I asked H over and over if I should do it and he said certainly. So I'm meeting with the Sr. VP by phone tomorrow to go over details. After looking actively the last month for more full-time work without getting a single interview (after my last contracting deal lasted only 2.5 weeks), this is a great alternative because it keeps my toe in the field I know, I'll get to work from home still, I'll have flexible hours which is great for my family and accomodating my H's business travels, and allows me to keep my current part-time job.

Earlier today, H and I used POJA -- and it was glorious. I was so amazed and I even explained POJA to my H so it allowed for me to slip some MB stuff in as well. H wants to buy a motorcycle. In college, I was in a horrible motorcyle accident where my friend whom I was riding with was killed and I was badly hurt. A year later, I was riding with someone when we came close to getting hit. So I have pretty strong feelings about them. But you know what? H loves 'em and he has many friends and family members who enjoy them. So we've been kind of talking about it and today he asked me to look at one on the computer that is for sale. I saw how he lit up. Who am I to deny him this pleasure that I know he so badly wants. He's responsible and knows his limits and while the majority of motorcycle accidents are caused by other vehicles, he wants to ride it mostly off-road. We talked, addressed each other's concerns (money being his and safety being mine), figured out a way to swing it financially, and have agreed to let him get one. He has been smiling all day about it.

The other is a trip to Iceland. My father and some of his siblings are going to take their first ever trip to their father's home country this August. We want to go but it is expensive. Well, my sister found great rates last Friday. My father has found an apartment very reasonably priced where we can stay. And my H moved some things around and found some money we no longer need for another purpose. So we've agreed that I can go with my parents and two other sisters. And I am so happy. It'll be a once-in-a-lifetime trip. And while I REALLY wish H could go with us, it will be wonderful to spend time learning about my dad's family and seeing that country.

Kids are home after spending a day with their auntie. I have my work wrapped up for the day. Everyone's in a good mood. H and DS7 are at baseball practice. So I better jump on the treadmill while I can.

I hope you're having a good day.