Straight from the book "Negotiating for results"

I'm not a politician but it's nice to know the rules.

So then your wife lied to you again by telling you it was a ONS? I guess it was kind of silly to think she only did it once with him. When did she disclose the rest? Or has she?

And a lot of us here (especially me) would more likely be the pest.

Different OM. Different situations. Previously, she was all fogged up. The whole package. The only issue w/ WW last A. Things that led to the A. never changed. I tried, for long time, she was in a fog for 8 or 9 months. Living with that, and doing a poor plan A is a real challenge.

She's disclosed a ship load.
This A. was a ONS, sexually. The other stuff that led to that lasted about 2 months.

I doubt there is much of significance that I don't know. WW's emotions and feelings. But that is coming out now.

-------------------------------
WW came home last night. Said she was having a hard time dealing with my rollercoaster ride. Dealing with me. In that respect, I left it to her to descide if she could handle it. Told her, there are going to be more days like yesterday with me/us.
That's the nature of the beast. She did what she did. She chose to betray this marriage. Regardless of our failings in the marriage, I didn't choose to be cheated on, nor did I cheat.
Told her, what I needed is for her to be with me 100% as I go through the spectrum of emotions.

She say's she's trying to do that and support me. But admits it's hard, cause she has bad days too. Right or wrong, I told her the best thing is for us to share everything and go through it all together. That stuffing it away just leads to resentment down the road.

WW may be getting closer to a point where I can "dump" the MB stuff on her. She's not there yet. first chance I get, I will see what she thinks of the POJA. She's getting sensitive to my needs more and more. I'm making her aware, that I know her needs, that I am, and have been meeting many of them. That the major issue is that she's been taking for granted all she has.

See, that is my big issue with the entitlement frame of mind that this country has moved into (might start that as a new thread). So many people expect so much, so many people aren't willing to work for what they get. Like spoiled children.

Was hoping for a good day. Spiral is starting now. Not because of the hurt. Because of the hopelessness of things. Was alone last night, alone today, will be alone all day tomorrow. WW got home late last night tired, will get home around 5 today tired, will get home tomorrow round 5 tired.

My days off and her's never line up. The 15 hour thing works fine if you've got awake and alert time with your spouse.

I'm sad because I don't think things can work out because of this timetable. Not that I'm giving up. But really, how can you expect to make a loving marriage when you can't make time, even when you want to to be together.
That sucks.
ya know, an early saturday AM talk, coffee and breakfast, then some time working round the house together. Time with the kids together.

It's been this way for years. No wonder WW feel into what she did. She's no more in a marriage than I am

I can't see her staying faithful for the long haul, she is just not there enough to have her needs met by you. And she has obviously chosen her job over you and her family. There is just no way to heal a marriage like that. As I said b4. She has a live in babysitter she trusts, and can still have her job where she basically lives another life. You took her back to soon. Again no consequence, no change.

Rough night with WW. She feels beat up by me emotionally.
So, I had to be there for her. Not because I HAD to.
Because that's who I am. Some things can't change.

OH BEFORE I FORGET. THE SMART MONEY IS ON NEITHER.

Okay, back to my shop of horrors....

Even though I'm a mess still. I'm seeing things a tad more clearly. Things about WW. Not all good things. Just about who she is.

I actually figured out why this happened again. WW was in fog for 9 months. By the time she was ready to work on the marriage, I had given up. Just accepted things. Went on trying to make a nice home for the kids.

Oh sure, that wasn't the best choice. But as a beaten man, I didn't know what else to do.

WW is upset that I continue to have thoughts of her last A. I don't think she understands the pain.

Would like to have a nice day, but that's questionable at this point. Sucks to get up in the AM, and know your day is screwed befre your first cup of coffee. Need to toss a bit of Irish wiskey in the coffee. Maybe that'll help.

Today, a big part of me really wants to pack it in. I think WW's hesitations last night amid her having a bad day planted a seed of doubt. Seeds suck.

WW is off to work early again. Won't see her most all this week either.

In that light, maybe that is the best thing.

I need to give that some real thought.

I love my wife.
I care for her.
Don't see myself with another woman.
We get along very well
Know each other very well
Kids love Mom best


She works different hours
Never spend time with her
THE PAST
Did I mention the past?
I deserve a better mate
Her career is important to her
SHE comes first in her life
Kids don't really like me and my parenting style
Kids never come see me when I come home, race to see her
THAT LAST ONE HURTS SO BAD.....

You know, it really sucks. It's 6:30AM, I'm planning dinner for tonight already, got a load of laundry in the dryer already, plus another in the washer behind it, cleaned kitchen, and a dozen other things. In the end, no one cares. I'm a sloppy guy for F-sakes! What the heck???

This is a slippery edge I'm walking right now. As much as I cherish my wife and this marriage, I get nothing out of it.
Affection, respect, support, conversation, SF....they are all hollow and half hearted.

I want WW to meet those needs. But, not sure she will care enough to.

several hours of thinking about this. Not stewing. Just thoughts...

really not sure now. It's not the hurt, the anger, or the betrayal. It's that she's got doubts that she can deal with me.

It's that she's not willing to live with the consequences or her actions.
I am forced to live with those consequences. The chips have fallen.

I see that the WS can walk at any time and wash their hands of the consequences of their actions. The BS can't do that.

Want to call or txt ww, not sure it's worth my effort. It's a transistional week for WW. her schedual is very different.

I'm thinking a week apart is a must. The following week I'm vacation. Then too.

Where I'm weak is that I love my wife. Despite her mistakes.

With children all parents know unconditional love. I've felt that for my wife also. yet when things get rough, she wants to toss in the towel.

It's either demand she be stronger, have stronger convictions about this marriage and me, or split up.

Another weekend day alone.

Near tears, as the kids....don't want to do anything I say. I'm forced to be "mean dad". I hate being the ever present bad guy.

Being a single parent while you are married sucks. It suck dirty pond rocks.
I know for 1000's of years women have done this. being a man doesn't make it any different. just that I also do this and work 40 hours a week makes it tough.

Maybe I should contact the government officials in China, don't they have some way of breaking up clouds? They could drop some silver nitrate (or whatever it is) on the cloud over my head.

when the moment of giving up occurs, when do you know? Bells? Tears? Silence? Just an internal resolve?

It's not what she's doing, it's what she's not doing. Should I be the one to tell her? Should I lay it out. Connect the dots.

Again, I'm back with the whole entitlement thing. People want to follow the path of least resistance. As an electical engineer, I get that 100%. But with life, you can't do that.

With life, the path of least resistance leads to being lazy. It leads to shoddy morals. It leads to sleeping with others. It leads to marriages that suck pond scum.

In the end it leads to D's by the truck load. Which line the pockets of lawyers seeking to get a better suite at the local sports stadium.

I blame myself for not working harder. But I blame every parent out there who raises entitled children who only expect their next present wrapped in a pretty bow.

I'm sad because in the end, with no support from my WW my kids will end up the same way.
Hating me for not allowing them every "advantage".

WW says she wants to die. Hell I can't stomach what the world around me is becoming. An endless breadline of Merry Christmas for all.
There is nothing special. Marriage should be special. the ultimate special thing.

I want that.......sadly I will never have that.

DaltonDad,
I'm really sorry for all your pain. You obviously have needs that are not being met. I feel like your situation is a circle and you always end up where you are right now. I don't feel like you've made progress although you have said your WW is more open this time around. Have you gone back to your first post in this thread and reread the responses. I think that would be a good idea.

GG

I think he has made progress. Just not in the direction he desired. She is showing her true colors. Basically giving up before she starts. She is lazy and selfish. The progress Dalton has made, is he is closer in deciding to dump her. This man is being tormented. First by his cheating wife. Now by her half assed attempt in trying to reconcile. She wants to go back to the life she had b4 discovery, that's obvious.

Daltonm, I want you to consider something. First the problem. Everyone in your life treats you like crap. Your wife, your kids, and your extended family because you won't divorce your wife. Think about this for a moment. I am sure you've heard the song "big yellow taxi" And how Joni Mitchell sings, "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till its gone"

You need to call the big yellow taxi. Why? Because your wife and kids lack something that is making their life less then what it should be.......Thankfulness. Your family needs to know what it's like without Dalton to kick around anymore. I am not saying desert them. I am saying, separate. Your wife needs to know what it means to be without you. Your kids need to know what life is like without you. I am sure you will say no to this. But if your family does not learn to appreciate you and the mundane things you do, like washing ,cooking and cleaning. You will be failing to teach them the very thing that will allow them to be happy in the future......Regret and thankfulness. You need to call your family and reconnect with them. Ask if you could live there a while. Make your wife pick up the kids from school and drop them off with you. You have no idea what it means to be appreciated. This could be the most important thing you do FOR THEM. Please consider this. It could save your family.

DD
WHY does everyone in your life treat you so badly? Are they all just mean people? Bad luck?

What else could it be?

Sounds like your first week after dday was completely typical - it really bites!! None of the WS are that great the first couple of weeks. If the affair is over, there is withdrawal and all the fog that comes with it. Remember, they had to detach to have the affair in the first place. Most WSs are detached, angry, ashamed, guilty, selfish, and they don't want to talk about "it". Some get better, some don't. If the affair hasn't ended, it is much worse. It is really hard to be in plan A when you are devastated. It makes it all the harder because the person that has destroyed you is the same person that promised to love and protect you until death. When you need them the most, they can't be there for you. Most of us do not do a perfect plan A. All you can do is keep trying. You can't help but feel like poop in the early stages. It is hard to breathe let alone take all the bs that comes from the newly discovered WS. Do you best but go easy on yourself. I can't tell you how many times my FWS told me during that first month that this was all just too hard. He was hopeless. He couldn't imagine that we would ever be able to get through this. We are getting through this though and it is getting a little easier everyday. Keep trying.

Thanks for the moral support SS2!!! I need that from time to time.


Well, WW and I have had a few good days. Sadly, I think it's going to come to an end here in a few hours. She agree to the POJA. No questions. I thought that was a bit odd. But she did.

Then, I sent her (email) a list of my needs. Yes sometimes it's better to talk about these things. But in this case I wanted to be as clear as possible. I listed my top 3 or 4 needs. Then told her I was willing to meet her needs. She just said, well I feel the same way. Okay... I'll buy that, I was really just talking about affection, me being the most important thing her life, us spending time together, and honesty.

Last night I asked her over dinner, if she thought more about what I sent her. I told her that it was REALLY REALLY important to me. I sorta wanted a nice conversation. She said, I read it really quick, I need to look at it again.

Well, this AM, I took a look at her phone (where I emailed the needs stuff). Those, and all the other messages are gone. Phone records cleared.
There are two issues here. One, I don't really think she's still in the A with OM. I could be wrong, but don't think so. What I think is she knows I'm checking, so to get my goat she's clearing things out contantly.
That's an issue. I asked her about it, she denied it. Just says she likes to keep things cleared out.

The second issue, I'm going to ask her later today if she's re-read the emails. I'm guessing she's going to say yes. Which will mean she's lying. If she doesn't lie, then she'll have just deleted something that was very important to me without giving it due consideration. In either case. This isn't going to shape up to be a nice day. I know this.

It makes me sad because we did have a nice few days. I'm going to have to end this if she lies. Honesty is the the deal breaker these days. ~sigh~

This is the EXACT reason that she should NOT be deleting anything. She should be totally transparent. Couple that with be open and honest, is the only way that YOU will ever get through this.

I find it telling that you think she's messing with you (get your goat). My FWH has not deleted ANYTHING since DDay until I am there with him when he does.

HE understands that deleting emails, text messages, voicemails, phone calls, anything is a boundary and a deal breaker. He understands how important it is for me and our M.

**edit**

bump

I wouldn't throw in the towel so quickly. You are making baby steps. During the affair, your WS lied about everything and was in the habit of covering her lies. She is still going through withdrawal and is still angry. It is very early for both of you. I would still be working plan A and taking her progress to heart. She will still have wayward tendencies for awhile as she moves through withdrawal. I think that a lot of people around here would like the WS to snap in line immediately and do everything right. Most don't. Most of recovered spouses had the same complaints early in their stories. Hang in there and keep working with her. As long as you can verify that the affair has ended and N/C is being maintained, I think you still have hope. It is a process not an instant fix. You still have to fix the issues that caused the affair and the habits that were learned during the affair. That takes time and a lot of work.

DaltonD,
Are you sure there is NC? I agree with previous post that your WW needs to be transparent. If she says there's no contact then she needs to prove it to you by not erasing the phone messages and letting you look at the phone anytime. I would print out the EN questionnaire and give it to her to fill out. You can't do the POJA without knowing the needs and it's just to easy for her to say my needs are the same as yours.

GG

LOL, I did get to read "wakeupcall's" post. Though i didn't respond, I expect I know who that was. Good thing I'm a real life rocket scientist. But it didn't take that.


SS2, thank you again.

Left work work early. Confronted wife. She didn't lie. Told me/ showed me she get's 15 txts a day from the people who work for her. Mostly just work stuff, the odd personal txt. But all okay. She didn't know I was coming home. I looked at her phone. She showed me. Says she has been cleaning it out a bit more, but that the number work txt's has grown in the past few months. Mostly that they all know they can contact her to gripe, change scheduals, and just say hi.

Not really comfortable with that. Told her so. But provided I don't see anything in my random snoops...I can live with that.

Honestly, if she'd lied, I was ready to end things.
glad it didn't come to that.

Told WW if she wanted me to re-send my needs I would, but only if she was in 100%.

Funny thing. I don't buy lottery tickets, don't gamble, don't bet in any shape or form.
Told WW I was betting it all on her. I was putting my faith in her. She knows I don't gamble. Knows why.
Told her the odds were against me on this one, but I was betting on her. She was really touched. Gotta suck to be married to an engineer who can be logical like Spock, but with feelings.

WW out of the blue asked me to stop by her work this eve. Bring the kids. Bought us dinner.
Can't explain how uncomfortable that was. Being it was where she and OM were. But, she wanted me to come. Wanted me there.
I think WW is getting close to ready to jump in w/ both feet. We'll see in the next week or so. if she responds to my needs and tells me hers..I'll have a pretty good idea she's in this marriage.
if she doesn't and reverts to independant behaviour...well it's either more work ahead or pack it in time.

Next few days are going to be odd. We are going to be together more. Not that that is bad. I love it. But it'll be hard to see if she's really looking out for me, or just responding to the attention.

Yeah still a bit skeptical. But I'm doing the right things.
For all the people who have clubbed me and felt I ignored them, I was all in to exposed WW if she lied to me today. I really don't want to humilliate her if I can help it. Those aren't her words as she doesn't even expect that I would expose. Those are mine. Sorry to not always follow the advice given here. Gotta tailor it to me and my values. Right/wrong that's who I am.

WW and I are going to start working out together this weekend. That's a fun thought.

WW is mad I've lost 25 lbs. Well mad is a strong term. Upset. I again told her I don't recommend this weightloss plan to anyone!!!! You don't eat for days on end. heart races about 35% of the day. Can't sleep. Sounds like a white drug that's snorted!? without the emotional baggage.

Wondered tonight how WW would feel if I had had an affair with one of her servers that was 15 years younger. I couldn't do it. would feel like a dirt bag. Feel I should share that with WW. But then it would be me calling her a dirt bag. Not that the average WS isn't all that and a bag of chips