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Lil, that post is freaking brilliant. I'll be saving it.
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Yeah, Pepperband is all wise, and knows all 
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday
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Man! that's a lot to take in. The WS struggles with what is most appealing to him, some with trying to deal with the lesser of the two evils from his point. of course he wants what is easier, whether that means moving on, or with natural consequences, working through the layers,
It appears at times that no matter how difficult he tries to work through the layers, of attempting to look at coming home. Then he is pulled back in the other direction.
He finds me at this point the reminder of what has happened. his value system at times, is just a lie anyway to him. So now he has someone who supports his idea of a conviction of I told you so, it didn't work anyway.
It appears that he is defending the affair. So being vicious is what he has to do because it is required to maintain the intensity of the lie, at all cost.
since this is the case for most affairs, it is hard to say at this point which way he will go. even if the affair will end.
My husband manages to keep some kind of contact. Like I say if I dont contact him, he will contact me. today was not the way I wanted it to be.
I believe that he thinks I am throwing our lifestyle in his face when I say that the flowers have bloomed in the front yard. he gets upset. It's like he planted them and I am enjoying them. And he hates that. So he will not help with things around here because I will get some enjoyment out of it.
I don't know if he is in the same affair, or if he is seeing someone else. I believe that when the affair was exposed he said that he was a marked man. I think that may have stopped. He has been depressed for months, writing nutty emails, saying mean things.
If he was really deep in an affair, he wouldn't have time for that kind of stuff. Am I naive?
I will follow your advice Lil, and continue to work Plan A, carrot and stick and myself --- mainly myself.
I would like to become more safisticated with my womaness and skills. does this planning stuff actually work? some days I just want to not think about it.
But he will give me a reminder that he is around. even if is negative. what is with that?
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Sometimes to a person, a reaction, positive or negative is at least an acknowlegement someone is taking notice of them. Hey, if your having a bad day and just cant think or deal, take a mental health day and pamper yourself. Have a bath, a walk, chocolate (if your on the A diet, you can probably afford the calories  )some women get manicures, or pedicure, umm, a neck and shoulder massage, or even getting a really really good book, and just go to bed and read. Have a "be kind to sunshine day" Do stuff that distracts you from thinking about him even if only for a short time. Praise yourself for your sucesses. "yay, I forgot about this mess for 4 minutes!" As far as the WH goes, he is nothing to you right now as far as his moods. He's happy, good thats great. He's grumpy, ah well, sunshine is awesome! Ignore behaviour that is only calculated to get a rise out of you. If it helps, think annoying little children trying to get mummy's attention..... In an A or out of an A, he's not going to want YOU unless your wantable. He married you once so we know something about you is wantable to him. Oh yeah, only listen to his insults with half an ear. If you think theres truth in it, then use the info to make changes in yourself. Otherwise in one ear and out the other.
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday
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I have to read it again, and get my highligher out. It has begin to shed some light, I am printing this off as we speak.
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another one for you. It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.
Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear
Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".
There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.
MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.
You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.
Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.
If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.
Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.
Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.
Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.
Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.
And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday
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Thanks for the Advice, I will do just that, Take care of me right now, get away
I do like what you said about- Annoying little children trying to get attenion!
No rises here! taking a bubble bath!!!! with a good book and a glass of wine. maybe I will return tonight or just go to sleep!!!!
Thanks,
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I don't know what just happened. ooops!
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a suppression of normal human empathy. what a statement: no ablility to feel the others pain. How long will that last. I guess when he feel safe to no longer have to protect himself from the awful feelings of himself. so the resentment is his self loathing. he feels exposed. no protection from his wounds of his lost footage.
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That Fear post was very helpful to me while going through this mess. It's hard to avoid it, but if you're aware of where your decision-making is coming from, it can help you avoid making hasty decisions. Fear-based decisions are often the bulk of the decisions you make early on.
I kinda think if one wasn't making decisions out of fear from the start, there'd be a lot less fence-sitting by waywards. I wish I'd grown a spine a little earlier - it would have saved me a lot of grief.
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lil dog, so much good advice for sunshine and myself. thanks. applies to so many of us here
Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09
Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
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Please, just Lil, Lil D if you must  Long story but lildoogie is NOT my favourite name, and now that LilSis isnt around so much, most just call me Lil.
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday
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The Fear Article was again another reminder from where I am acting from. Thanks for the reminder, sometimes it creeps up on you, don't know it's there. But being aware of all the different emotions that are happening at the same time is helping me to pinpoint my behavior and what I need to do to work on me.
Not being afraid to do what you need to do for yourself, taking care of yourself gives me strength to be aware and not just react. reading, exercise, eating right, sharing with support is what helps eliminate the fear.
Another good point: regardless of what happens, you gain yourself back to be able to make good decisions in your own life, not operating on anothers fears and low self-esteem.
Plan A is not waiting for your spouse but moving on in your life leaving a good impression of who you are/have become inspite of his/her lack of regard for others.
I also read an acticle on Resentment: one particular piece discussed surrendering and detaching, finding the spiritual stillness within: putting into perspective, and realize that the other person's actions are only part of the equation, and that our own reaction is entirely our own response. not blaming but taking charge of our own lifes with dignity.
It all begins to move pass the hurt, sobbing. Infidelies may never come to a place that would make us feel better, but It is not there responsibility to fix us. because they are so broken. It is our opportunity to regain the gifts of graditude of what we still have and can use to move forward. Do not give your power away, its not theirs to have in the first place.
There has been some painful stories on this site, and I have read with the support, courage, no one has to stay in that place of ensurity, yes, it knocks you off your feet, and it hurts like hell! But I would not trade places with them for anything in the world. Not to say I don't make mistakes but believe me, As Lil said in the article regarding WS distoring thinking: I have to pull from my modeling sources from my past, and know that I came from good stock.
I am a child of God and believe in prayer and worship, I have not lost my way, and will continue for today to be encouraged and empowered, embraced by caring individuals.
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Plan A is not waiting for your spouse but moving on in your life leaving a good impression of who you are/have become inspite of his/her lack of regard for others. It might help you to actually write down your plan A so you can refer to it. I'll post what I did. I wont say its the best way to do it, just how I did it. Also It may not have been the best plan A, but it was the best I could do. First of all I asked him what his top En's were. At that stage he said they were RC, H&O, SF, Admiration and Affection. (I found out later he lied about Af, and the order was wrong. PA was actually number 2 but even he knew the PQ was ugly, so couldn’t have it up there. I ended up filling EN#2 without even knowing it!) Now he would not let me fill all those needs, so I have to concentrate on what he would. My WH lived 5 hours away in another town. I had 2 one-week stays with him and a long weekend. DISCLAIMER: I did continue SF. This is not recommended. I had an STI test. This is recommended. I spent time with WH, and just 'hung out'. We did some activities, like going for drives, a little recreational shopping, out for a few meals. That was about as much RC as I was allowed/able to do. I sent a daily appreciation note. I had to draw on the past ALOT. But if he did do something for me I would write it down and it would be used a few days later. I also discovered accidentally that he preferred being thanked for his practical help so I made sure those were well represented. As far as I could I was open and honest with him. I had to use discretion. There was alot of stuff I didn’t want him to know. Afffection, well that was rather hit and miss. He didn’t want that need filled by me. Turned out not to matter much anyway. I made up my own little mantra: 1. Always show your love 2. Be the better person 3. Expect nothing 4. Accept what good comes. I also got him to tell me what his expectations of me where and what my love busters where, and I worked jolly hard on every single one of them. I wrote another list, which I tacked to the wall beside the bed, of what he wanted from me, what not to do, and the mantra underneath it.
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday
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Hi lil,
I would love to ask him what his ENs are: I want to be able to have conversation with him. I have not responded to him at all since the last text to me.
How did you get your husband to tell you what his ENs were?
Right now my husband is being the way he is, and I want to get closer to him
So right now, for a couple of days, I need to focus.
Little update:
He parked his car for me to see that he was at his friends house down the street today. This friend is married and has told me himself that he and his wife were in MC and that they were working on their marriage of 12 years, with step children, none together. This was last year he told me this. so I believe that the friend down the street is talking to him, My husband is a good listener when he wanst to be. I know our friend is on both our sides for reconciliation. I continue to pray daily for healing of our marriage.
My husband and I have not been intimate and I miss our affection together. Why is SF not recommended, I can take a guess, but don't we want to share our closeness with each other to keep each other in one minds and hearts. I want to believe that being away can make the heart grow fonder, I don't like the distance between us. it is possible that he will come back and make this the best marriage ever?
Those mantras are simple and clear. I will use the ones you have offered for now and add on some of my own. Thanks for the road map. I looked up more mantras Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
How long were you and your husband apart? were there times you guys did not talk? and how did you begin to communicate again.
you are right about my husbands ENs, now how do I begin to fulfill them? I wish I had this information early on.
Last edited by sunshine01; 03/29/09 05:51 PM.
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Hi sunshine, it is not advised to ask for your H EN's or since he is so deep in the fog to come to this site.
Take the test for him, you know him and will be able to figure the top 5. This is for you and how to address it.
We all struggle with this and pray that they come out of the fog.
Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09
Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
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His ENs are: DS, AD, SF, AF, PA, I have figured out his needs, and know that they were important to him before, and I fulfilled them for a long time. He was very attracted to me, and we love to make love and be together every chance we could, we would talk to each other several times a day during work, and couldn't wait to be together after work, going out to eat, visiting, movies, shopping, working on projects together. I almost forget all the things we did together. He cant forget all that. looking for our house was so much fun. He missess me and this. Just need to get back home. the life he is living now, does not compare. We were free, no children, no money worries, we were like kids ourselfs. I believe that we missed the spiritual component together.
I need to move forward on trying to meet his needs, just need to figure out how to that at this point. I am trying my best to do the things that are suggested, I have slipped several times.
I think that time is important, When I talk with him or see him, I do the wrong things. What is left to do? I don't want to sound like the victim, I just want to figure out if what I am doing will make a difference toward communicaition and possible reconciliation.
My husband has expressed great resentment toward me. Is this fogbabble? and continue with Plan A, it has just been 3 1/2 weeks since I started Plan A.
Last edited by sunshine01; 03/30/09 08:47 AM.
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Today was a difficult day, I have not heard anything, it has been a week since I saw him last, and he has not called. I know you said not to expect anything, are respond at this point. How do I work the Plan A carrot and stick with no bait to bite.
He is really removing himself. He has not filed for divorce and has not removed his things from the house. It's like everything is still.
I dont' believe he wants the marriage. I am the one holding on, It is becoming unhealthy for me to continue this process. He acts like this marriage does not exist. How do I begin to make a move.
Still send him text and email. still be pleasant, make a good impression, then what, I bounce around from being ok to not being ok. I have not done anything at all. I have not responded. Just sit and wait like a setting duck?
8 months is a long time with no SF, and no conversation of recociliation. Im hurt.
Last edited by sunshine01; 03/31/09 04:36 PM.
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Hi Hope3343, I have figured out my husbands ENs - SF, DS, AF, AD, and PA, I had to take a couple days to myself just not to think about my marriage.
Can you tell me about the 10 years age difference and if there have ever been any issues with you guys age difference?
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I am also working on a continued better Plan A. Lil gave me some wonderful advise. However, I guess I need it spelled out for me. I feel like a bab, and need some help, not needy just guidance, and exhausted. I have not heard from my husband, and do not expect anything, but would like to try again, before I decide to go to Plan B.
Thank you
Last edited by sunshine01; 03/31/09 07:05 PM.
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