These are a good start! Thanks for listing them out.

The books will help you see so much more. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts about them over the next 2 weeks.

Chop, Chop! (lol)

Thanks tst, will do.

BB,

Is there a reason you would have contact with OW?

I would love to see this one thing revised to, "No Contact for any reason".

What do you mean by this? This should read, no contact with any women unless it is business related or they are relatives.

This excludes all contact with OW, though. Has all contact ended with OW?

See, just telling your W about contact with women is meaningless. If it is destructive, it is destructive, no matter what. Is it ok for an alcoholic to have a drink as long as it is with his spouses full knowledge and approval?


That sounds like a bit much to me and could be dangerous if you don't like to do it. Sacrifice is BAD for marriages, BB. It sets up resentment. This is fine as long as you enjoy doing it.


Read my thoughts on #2.


hmmm, did your affair start on the internet? Can you bring me up to speed?

"Some counselors think it's a good idea to "resolve issues of the past" by talking about them week after week, month after month, year after year. It keeps these counselors in business, but does nothing to resolve the issue. In fact, it usually makes their poor clients chronically depressed.
My experience as a Clinical Psychologist has proven to me that dredging up unpleasant experiences of the past merely brings the unhappiness of the past into the present. The problems of the present are difficult enough to solve without spending time and energy trying to resolve issues of the past, which are essentially unresolvable. You can make your future happy, but you can't do a thing about bad experiences of the past, except think and talk about them -- and that makes the bad experiences of the past, bad experiences of the present." Dr. Willard Harley

Hi tst, hope you've having a good weekend.

In answer to your question, I do not have contact with OW so it was just the way I wrote that passage that may be slightly ambiguous.

If I do have contact with OW my DW is either there or fully aware of the contact.

Also, please let me be clear. I use the term OW to all women not to the OW. I have had not contact with her since D-Day.

Hi ML, thank you for continuing your interest in our recovery.

In answer in your first question, please see my previous reply to tst. I think my original statement wasn't as clear as it could have been.

With regards to point 2 & 3 I enjoy and have no problem with doing these things for my DW. I showed her no respect during my A so I feel that doing these things gives her an "easier" day and, to be honest, helps my conscious and makes me feel a little better at the horror I have put her through.

That said, we have agreed that if my feeling change in any way I will tell her. I will not let any resentment build. My DW has raised her concerns on this point and, to a degree has felt a little uncomfortable, but I have been honest and assured her that, for the time being, I am more than happy to do so.

In answer to point 4, I am trying to make my life an open book. There is no specific reason for including this statement other than it is easy place for secrets and I don't want to give my DW and reason to doubt me ever again.

Sorry, edit facility won't work. Third paragraph, last sentence please replace "conscious" with "conscience"

ML or TST, are you out there - could do with some advice.

As with my previous posts I have stated that my life is an open book and my DW has full access to my phone and e-mail records.

Yesterday I received a "spam" e-mail from a bank asking me to click on the link to verify my account details or my account would be frozen etc etc - you get the picture.

Normally I would just delete this from my in-box and ignore. However, my DW saw the message first and it triggered her in terms of a lie the OW said at on D-Day (Aug 08) about a secret account I have to get access to money.

Although the e-mail is clearly fake it re-opened old wounds for her and she began to question the whole possibility of a second account being true.

Let me state for the record - there never has or ever been a second account or money set aside that my DW does not know about.

I have sent an e-mail to the "real" bank that the e-mail was puporting to be from asking them to clarify that it is fake, not from them and that they have no record of me on their systems.

In addition, I have asked my DW to write a long list of financial institutions and banks(without any input from me) and I will contact each one using the Freedom of Information Act to get any details they hold about me on their records including any bank accounts and when they were opened.

I am very keen to do this for her/us as I want to move a little closer to being slightly trustworthy and by going through this process I know this can be acheived.

But, the problem is that my DW i just so "tired" of the whole thing. She is almost bereft of caring anymore. She has been through so much over the last 8-12 months it's almost as if she couldn't care whether I can prove my integrity in this matter of otherwise.

It's just seen as "yet another thing we have to go through".

I know that I have proven myself to be untrustworthy, devious, callous, cruel and deceptive by having the A in the first place but I am totally dedicated to restoring my M to as good a place as I can make it by addressing the certain issues that led me down the path to have the A.

So, when a chance (and I do see it as an opportunity) to do something positive to restore a little of my DW's faith in me I want to grasp it and run with it.

How, in your experience, should I tackle this situation properly? I understand that my DW is upset and I want to make her feel better, give her a little more certainty about me but I fear that the very fact that we're going through this process is not perceived as positive just another reminder of what I did.

Posters on page one of this thread suggested that you take a polygraph. Unless I am missing something in reading this thread, you did not address this recommendation either positively or negatively. Why would you send letters to every known bank asking for FOIA information when you could answer one question (and any others your BW might have) on a polygraph?

I am D+11 mos and my "love bank" is frequently hovering around empty and I find myself tired and not caring. The A certainly took a huge amount out of the bank. In those times, FWH knows to step it up to meet my emotional needs. If you don't know her top ENs, find them out and meet them.

AM

I agree with AM, go for the polygraph and get all those questions answered there.

Herein lies the problem. My DW says she believes me 95% of the way and, as far as she's concerned, a poly wouldn't take her any closer to resolving the issue.

She feels that if our M has come to this, that I have to take a polygraph to give her answers, then it is a M that she doesn't want to be in.

She's been through the shock, the anger, the fear, and all the other range of severe emotions any spouse goes through following an A but it seems now about how to come to terms with the A and "fitting it in, coping and living day to day with it". A kind of realisation that the A will never truly go away and will always be part of her/us.

The trigger was yesterday and the "phishing" e-mail I got about a bank account (see my post above). She says she more or less knows it's spoof and believes me 95% that I didn't have another account but her own reaction to seeing such a message knocked her for six. The experience has left her shocked - how could something like this cause her to have such a severe jolt and trigger moment?

Now she is asking, if she sees something similar in 6 months or 6 years will she react in the same way. As there is no way of knowing her anger re-surfaced towards me as to what I have done to her. I could have made her potentially vulnerable to these episodes for years and years.

We have spoke tonight and it's not primarily a "trust issue" more of an understanding that "this terrible event that I bought into our lives" will kick you when you least expect it and bring a whole host of emotions that I had prayed would not return right back to the fore and into our M.

Your W is going thru a common phase...she is just plain old worn out. If she hasn't already gone through it, expect some anger as well.

I am in a similar place as well, that is why I can explain it to you...when you disclosed more info about the A that YOU thought she didn't need to know, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. A big part of her DOESN'T care anymore, she is sick and tired of this being her life.

She is also afraid to get her hopes up, you have let her down time and time again. She is protecting herself from you, and with good reason.

The only way to turn this around is for YOU to initiate actions that will make a positive impact on her. Call the bank, do whatever you need to do to prove that this was a fake email.

Offer to take a polygraph if there are other things she believes you are still lying about. My FWH did this and it was very helpful.

Then read the books...all of them. Find out what her ENs are AND how she likes them to be met (how YOU like them to be met isn't the same!).

Start Plan A'ing your W, and have patience...lots of it. It may take a long time for her to come around, and this is not about damage control...this is about YOU becoming the best man, husband and father she could have ever dreamed of.

She deserves that, and if you do this right, your M will survive. You are out of chances, though, so don't muck this up again.

This IS a very real emotion that the BS goes through....it's been 2 years of recovery for us and I STILL feel this sometimes.

It's incredibly depressing to realize that, for the rest of your life, there WILL be triggers to be dealt with. It's infuriating as well. We did not choose this...YOU did, yet we pay the price. The anger at that feels overwhelming at times.

So much is going to depend on how YOU deal with this...your patiences and understanding, how much you are able to grow and help your W through this.

You are going to have to step up, fast and hard.

A huge thing that my FWH is doing now is working on UNDERSTANDING rather than moping that he is not being UNDERSTOOD.

Being "understood" is overrated. So much more can be gotten out of life when you begin trying to understand others. And this shows greatly in your character when this is your goal.

Once you begin really trying to UNDERSTAND where your W is, how she is feeling, what she is going through, you will KNOW what to do to begin really trying to help her heal.

This has been a big step in our recovery. Don't wait 2 years to get there, though...that is too long.

Hi MF, thank you for your comments which are very much appreciated.

Just to let you know that I have offered to take the poly earlier this week (before I posted the above) and will do so if it will help my DW.

Also, I am taking the advice proffered to me from tst. I am in the process of reading SAA and will also read all subsequent books as recommended.

I am determined to understand my DW as best as I possibly can. I am ready and prepared to do whatever it takes to show that I understand what she is going through and am able to help her heal from the pain I have inflicted upon her.

My DW, M & family mean way more to me than anything in my life by a million miles. It's such a shame that I lost such focus but I have it back now and will never ever let it slip again.

So far I'm nearly finished on SAA and enjoying it immensely. My initial thought - the title seems wrong. Surely it should be called "How to have a happy marriage"!!

I know people would get offended but the book should be given as a wedding present to all newly weds (albeit with my suggested title)as a coaching manual for the next 50 years.

Why, oh why do people like me only read books like this after an A! The message of the book is clear, concise and common-sense and any couple following these principles should always have a healthy and open relationship.

People today, in general, (myself included) devote so much time to careers and other aspects of our busy lives that we just don't pay any attention to our M. I never really thought about all the nuturing, care, thought, empathy and dedication that is needed for a healthy M. I thought my love for my DW was enough - it obviously wasn't!

It makes me so angry to see how I neglected my M. The life I have with my DW and family is by far the most important thing to me. Yet, I concentrated on insignifcant things, like work etc and gave far too much of myself, time and effort on matters that, in the grand scheme of things, aren't important.

Without my M, DW & family I have nothing. Yet over the past 12-15 months I have hardly invested enough of myself into them to justify the importance that I feel towards it.

I am on the right road. I feel brighter and can see light at the end of my tunnel. I also feel that my DW is happier that I am on the "right" track to recover properly, that I seemingly won't revert to the person of last year. I really don't want to go back to the way I was either, in fact, it's the last thing I want.

If I keep on this track, conquer my conflict avoidance problems and truly "own" my own s**t I know that I will become a better more wholesome man, father and husband. Man, that is some incentive believe me!

I am determined to make my DW and family proud of me. I will resign the events of last year to the distant past and all the people that mean so much to me will be able to look back on that period of our lives without so much pain.

I will make something positive come of the evil and negative actions of my A.

But, I know this is a long road and nothing should be taken for granted. I'll finish the book this week and move on to HNHN as suggested. In addition, once that is done, my DW and I are going to re-do our EN questionnaire and schedule MC with Harleys over the telephone.

All of these things I will do head-on with relish. I am making progress and it spurs me on for more more more.

Finally, when I have finshed SAA & HNHN I will post my thoughts (if anyone is interested).

Glad to hear of your progress.

You remind me of my FWH. Your commitment to R and to your M is what will make your efforts successful. We're in second year of R and my H has the best of me and I don't hold back. I'm glad for you and your DW.

I agree on the coaching manual for newlyweds, although I don't know if that will prevent As from happening.

GG

Thanks gg, it's nice to hear of someone else further on down the line, benefiting from a FWH's commmittent to R.

It's also nice that I remind you of him, thanks! It makes me feel even more confident that if I stay on our/my current plan we will R better than ever.

My DW is a great person and I can't believe just how much focus I lost over the 12 month period up to my A. But I'm really enjoying her now and appreciate just what I came to losing. It chills me to my core, it really does.

Hopefully my DW is seeing a profound and fundamental change in me, my actions and outlook on things in our lives which are important and relevant. In the cold light of day it is so clear what is and what isn't is and one of the hardest things I am finding to come to terms with is the staggering lack of clarity I had 12 months ago.

That said, that was 12 months ago and this is now. I think that my DW is re-discovering the H she fell in love with and married and can see that, despite everything that has happened and what I have put her and our family through, our M will come out stronger than ever at the end of this journey.

I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks for your post.

BB