You don't have to give him the bike. If I were you, I'd just tell him when he gets home that you know what he's doing, and you're giving him one chance and one chance only to give ujp this alter life, or he can pack his bags. Tell him you'll be watching, and if you find out he's still doing this crap, he'll come home to find his bags packed on the driveway.

Do NOT BE WEAK!

Scare the h&ll out of him.

You do NOT have to tell him HOW YOU KNOW. Just keep repeating 'it doesn't matter how I know. I know.'

STAY MAD! Don't yell, just be confident that you WILL NOT accept being his secondhand pasttime.

See what he says. If he denies everything, then say fine - I'm going to bed. And leave him alone.

Then tomorrow morning, make up a list of everyone who needs to know what he's doing, sit down with the phone, and just start calling. Don't stop until you finish the list.

He'll be mad. Good. That means it's working.

Here's what I've learned since coming here 1 1/2 years ago and watching all these people go through discovery. The BS who takes swift, strong, decisive action - who shows they are MAD, FURIOUS at their WS - is the one who gets their spouse back.

The ones who cry, get scared, beg...they almost ALWAYS lose their spouse. Because the WS just gets bolder and bolder about cake eating.

Scare the crap out of him. STAY MAD!

Does that include calling his mom?

And, when you say STAY MAD, ummm I will cry, but it will be the angry cry... can I use "how dare yous" and "how do you live with ripping apart a family for this?" or is that LoveBusting? And can I make demands? Because my gut wants to make demands like that I know everything he is doing if he wants a second chance, and my gut would want to demand that we both jump into the MB books, and if we can get the money togehter that we would do MB weekend.

Shoot, we have a trip together overseas in June, and if he doesn't go then we are stuck with the thousands of dollars for the ticket (though the ticket was a gift contingent upon participation in a program). Do I expose to the people in the program, too?

Do I expose it on Facebook since it started there?

Heck YEAH you call his mom! You call his mom, his dad, his sister, his brother, his uncle, aunt, best friend...everyone who has ANY influence on him. Anyone who he will be ashamed to know what he is doing.

That is what exposure is. It is not to punish him. It is to save the marriage. It is to get his important people to tell him how ashamed they are of him and jolt him back to reality. You don't ask them to do it, you just say to them that you would love their help fixing your marriage if they feel so inclined.

When I say mad, I mean...

What if you had a sister, and this sister's husband was scr&wing around on her? How would you feel? You'd feel like going and punching your BIL in the face, right? How dare you hurt my baby sister?!

THAT is how you need to feel about yourself! How dare he treat you like that?! It doesn't mean you scream at him. It means you remain INDIGNANT.

ETA: Please ask the mods to move your thread over to Infidelity/General Questions II or to Just Found Out. The people who go over there have been through this, and they can help you a ton more than over here, ok?

I'll ask them to move it. I think he has all of the sudden developed some kind of porn addiction. Does that really fit there? And are you sure I shouldn't start in therapy?

Edit- And how do those exposure phone calls go? He'll take the phone, no doubt. Or freak the fark out. What do I say to these people? "Hello H'sMama, I want to thank you so much for babysitting so we can go on our weekly dates through all these struggles, but I think you should know that the struggles are worse than I thought. You see, H has decided to create secret accounts for himself so he can get free webcam porn and flirt with women, and lie to me about it, but he is still the love of my life and if he has the desire to be an upstanding man and do the right thing, well I'd be open to that. So please, pray for our marraige and if you have any help you can offer, we'd appreciate it.

Just read all this.....so sorry.

Remember, keep you child out of earshot of any of this.

Don't threaten anything you won't follow through.

Expose as other suggested.

No begging. No pleading. Be a rock. Read all you can here about exposure and dealing with all of this. Don't stop searching...you may find more.

Asking him questions is useless. He will lie. Don't let him turn this around on you. It is not your fault.

These are his big boy decisions. He will lie, try to minimize and turn things around. Don't even try to engage him in conversations. All the best...

Yeah, that's about it, lol.

Obviously, you don't make the phone calls while he's around you.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Is he only looking at porn? Or is he contacting women? There's a big difference, and two different ways to handle it.

A couple days ago I found a map search for a town about an hour away. I asked him who/what was there, and he said NOTHING. I pushed, and he lied that it was a clients home town. I pushed and he just stuck to his guns. I had gone into his Facebook friends and found a woman who lived there. I decided to befriend all of the strange women he befriended on Facebook through the "harmlessly flirty games," and when she accepted my friends request, I confirmed through chatting with her that he had indeed chatted her up, but that nothing happened, and it was rather casual conversation. His assertion was that I was "all into his business" and not letting him live like a normal adult. Then we has a conversation and he agreed it was stupid to lie, but he had done it out of instinct to protect some scrap of privacy because I am soooo into his business. The next day I saw that a few women from these "harmlessly flirty games" were rather scantly clad and seem to be practically hooking on Facebook, so I asked he defriend them. He at first made some big production that he was about to do it on his own, but that my demanding it makes me a controlling person, blah blah... so then he later tells me he has decided to defriend a chunk of his list, as they do seem a little sleazy or otherwise not what he wants to have there on his friends list.

He then apparently right when he did this, launched a secret email account and secret Facebook account for the express purpose of contacting these women. (None live near us, but one seems to be a hooker, and has a photo in her photo pile of her giving a beej and another has free live webcams of herself) (And all this crazy started with his contacting his old college f___buddy, the only person I had previously said he should never contact out of respect for me, though he conveniently forgot that, until he initiated contact with her and then he "stopped" while he kept it up behind my back.) Soooo I think he had an EA or an EA fantasy with Whorita the college f___buddy, and then kept up a fantasy life thereafter? Am I wrong to be mad? The second Facebook account and the second email account seem pretty devious... and LIVE contact. This isn't him renting a porn disc, which I would also be against, but this has a LIVE component. These Facebook Sleazes can contact him and actually DO sit on chat!

Yeah, I'd definitely be telling his family, then.

How did it go?

Remember the women he talks to lie too. Don't believe nothing is going on because SHE said so.

It sounds as if he already tried to turn it around on YOU invading his privacy. Classic.

Exposing this to the light is the best you can do. Oh...and let me guess...his computer is in the basement with him at night.

Nope, computer is not in the basement. Never will be. I keep the laptop near me. (Frick, it's MINE, I sat out in the snow for 4 hours to get the darn thing) and the desktop is in the diningroom.

He came home last night and I looked stearnly at him and asked if there was anything he'd like to declare, anything to spill. He, of course, said there was nothing to tell. I then walked him down to the basement, where he now sleeps, and showed him the his and hers bikes and helmets that are parked down there, and said very plainly that I had bought these because of his desire to go biking with me and that I had been so excited about it.

Then I brought him back upstairs to the diningroom and showed him the computer screen, where his alternate sign-on had been sitting in the Facebook log-in box. He then started with the usual. "Oh that, it's nothing. You're worked up over nothing. Not like I tried to hide it." Except, truly, he had tried to hide it, except that he is too sloppy.

I then called him on it, further. If it wasn't something to be hidden, why was he hiding it? And, as predictable, he wasn't hiding it or lying because omission isn't lying (do we have a rolley-eyes smiley?) So he continued on and on about how there is nothing being hidden, so I rose right back, staying stern, telling him if there was nothing to be hidden then he I should be able to see it all. He said that it was fine, that he'd sign in and I could click around. Then he made me turn around at first while he signed in, because I shouldn't know his password. Ummm yeah, he who has nothing to hide, hides nothing. Whatever! He signed in and I immediately reached over and started clicking around and well wouldn't you know, I happened to find that one of the girls has a pic of herself in her photo gallery giving a beej and another has a video of herself dancing in a tiny tube-top and undies, and invites under that to her webcams, including her live cams. Oh supposedly he'd never noticed that. Oh, sure he's looked at the photos, but they are all soft-core at worst, blah blah (except the beej, since when is that softcore?). He then proceeded to tell me that he had an interest in things sexual and that's why he made this account, so it wouldn't bleed over into his "normal" account. I then told him that an "interest in things sexual" is all well and good, but now when you have to lie about it. I told him if he wanted to buy erotic novels or how-to's that aren't porno (especially porno with live people at the other end to chat with), or some new toys for us to experiment with, then that would be fine, but when his interest in sex makes him lie that there is clearly a problem. I then told him point blank that I don't know what happened to MY H, but MY H always valued truth and honesty, and I didn't know how he could look himself in the mirror, or look his child in the face, given his shameful behavior. I told him, point blank, that lying is unacceptable and that we would be addressing this further in MC. I got the shameful pouts, and the "I don't want to be this kind of man."

And I told him that I was truly angry that I had gone through all this effort, and now I can't even decide what to do with the bikes. He tried to tell me, while pouting, that he agrees he doesn't deserve that gift and that he would help me load them back into the car to return them. I told him it wasn't his decision to make, that I had to consider what *I* wanted, because it's not all about him. I suppose we'll address it in MC, too. I did, however, lock the two bikes together so he can't decide in a selfish moment to take the bike for a ride and make it un-returnable. So now I don't know what to do. I guess, for now, I am in survival mode until our session on 4/8, and I am contemplating adding another session 4/10 because there is clearly alot to be addressed here and now. He does, still, want to go on dates. ** Pesky mothership scrambling a good mans brains.

By the way, I must say I am pretty proud of myself. I didn't cry but a single angry tear. I didn't yell, I was simply stern and to the point, and made alot of *I* statements while conveying matter-of-factly that it pains me deeply to know that when his lips are moving he must be assumed to be lying. I actually feel like I gained back an ounce of my power and self-respect. I am going to save this M. We are going to get him back on track as the good man, the good H, he always was... even if he doesn't realize it yet.

So now what? I had dragged my feet before, but I think this is intensifying and there will be no more foot-dragging. I will be getting the CD's and books and getting through them. I'm gonna fix this.

You sound good and you did GREAT! Expect not to feel so strong at times though....just keep up the ACT!

Good job for not buying into his lame explanations, which are ridiculous!

Of course expect him to go more undercover.

Is he willing to close his facebook accounts and not go on the computer unless you are in the room? I thought not....

Best of luck! Stay the strong woman you are!

Is it wrong to hope our therapist B**** Slaps him?

He's just so in and out... so very alien brain scramble...

It is really hard to keep up the hard as nails act. I mean, now he doesn't even want me sitting next to him on the couch to watch TV. "It's fine if one of us is on the couch and the other in the chair, time together doesn't have to be touchy feely or cuddly." He's sooooo pushing my buttons. He *knows* I am an affectionate person. UGH! Out, OUT DAMN ALIEN!

So, out of the blue he goes in and deletes the account late last nigth, making a production of doing it in front of me. WTH? I asked what was up, and he replied that he had simply lost interest... umm yeah, since I had the password and he couldn't get away with anything, I suppose it would be less interesting... any bets on whether he sets up another one? What should I be doing next? We still have a date tonight for the gym, dinner and a movie this is all such a crazy mindfark. I can't stand this new total ban on affection, either... DRIVES ME NUTS. I feel so empty sometimes, just because I can't even get a hug or sit down on the couch next to him just touching, or sleeping with his arm draped over me in a snoring spoon-like nature... it's so not me to be this ten-foot-poled from him, or anyone else I really care about, for that matter. It creates a definite loneliness, an empty void, a sadness... and I still have to act strong. I keep chanting like my own cheerleader in my head "no more tears."

Yes, this is crazy time. You are doing well. Yes, he will be even more devious next time. You must be even more cunning!

I am very impressed how well you are seeing through his words and handling the situation with strength.

You know this ten foot pole thing has nothing to do with you, right? He feels guilty and uncomfortable. Of course he may not "get" it, since he needs to make it about you, or at least his entitlement, in his mind, to justify what he is doing. But this is not about you.

Tonight, be as upbeat as you can. I would avoid bring up relationship talk because:
a) its a buzz kill
b) he even doesn't know what will come out of his lying lips next
c) what ever does come out can not be trusted
d) he will make you feel bad
e) it will not help

Instead, do a bit of covert detective work. Talk about his job, people you saw at the gym, mutual friends, a bit of gossip you heard, old shared experiences or friends (with one exception).....anything that he may inadvertently give you some clues or a little window on what is going on.

HE is thinking about it all the time. If you pay careful attention and start piecing things together, it may be helpful. I think there is more you do not know.

Getting it on the table sooner rather than later, is better.

If he brings up relationship stuff, there are others here who are better versed in alien speak (I'm thankfully rusty), but listen as calmly as possible without interrupting or disagreeing, then thanking him for the communication, or ask clarifying questions, then let it go. It is fine to say you don't agree or briefly state your position, but at least I found that during this time, it is absolutely useless to get into an argument or try to "change" his mind. He doesn't have one!

Try to have fun. Ohhhhhh...it would be great if Fatal Attraction was at the movies. As a public service, it should be available on the big screen every so often!

You know, I've never even seen Fatal Attraction. Would it be a good one for our date night sometime? We do drive-ins (our laptop in the car, it's actually surprisingly nice)

If anyone has a good Alien Speak translator, I'd love it. After all this crazy, he complained he was sore so I started massaging his shoulders, I'm being very non-chalant. It's what I'd normally do, so since I have not been abducted, I did it. He grabbed my hands, wrapped them around his neck, and explained that it wasn't like a stress ache so much as it was an overdone at the gym ache and it didn't lend itself to massage, but he appreciated it. Then, surprisingly he asked if I needed a massage and gave me one! I'm telling you, living with an alien is rough stuff.

Hi White Russian,

Just stopping by to wish you a Happy Passover. You are one strong woman and have great advice going your way. Keep up the work. I never had your courage.

Thanks. I really do need the encouragement and cyberhugs. We went out on our weekly date, which sadly started with a little tiff in the car on the way there, but we were pretty well able to put it behind us reasonably fast and move onto our evening. We again hit the treadmills at the gym, side by side, but OY we have so little to talk about. When did it get so hard? We used to have great conversation. He wanted to turn on the TV's, but I politely said that that wasn't really spending time together, so we didn't end up watching TV. I finally decided to kinda play alien with the alien... not allow myself not to dream, so I asked Mr Alien what the 5 most important features of our house would be, when we got around to buying one. He didn't play with a whole lotta detail, but he didn't gimme the shtick about not getting to that, so??? It's hard dating an alien, especially when you are married to himsigh. I need to work on conversation starters for us. Maybe I need to read more magazines before we go on dates. We did follow the gym with dinner and a movie, and during previews we talked about seeing more movies that were previewed (3/4 his, and 1/4 mutual interest.) He even held my hand and/or rested his hand on my leg most of the movie. We're home now, but he's again sleeping downstairs

Start reading more. It'll give you more things to talk about. Magazines, newspapers, websites about subjects you're both interested in...