So I had thought we were on a decent enough path. I went to the gym with him (he wants RC, and for me to thin down, and he enjoys the gym) and I committed to start each of our date nights that way. I thought for a few days there that, dare I hope it, we were on a good path. I even put down some hard-saved money on his and hers bikes so we could ride together (though he doesn't know that because the date he is to receive his bday present wasn't until today).

He also expressed that he wanted to start a lower fat and healthier carbs diet for himself (which oft means I must cook 2 dinners, because I can't process carbs, so I'm on a high protein plan) and I started finding new and interesting dinners and having them ready for him when he gets home from work, which is very late at night. I've been bending over backwards to Plan A well.

Last night, out of the blue, he tells me he is moving back down to the basement to sleep. He wants "more independence and space," but, ummm, he still comes home and chats me up and watches TV with me or sits near me on the computer... so when he's snoring he wants more space and independence? I don't know how to read this or what to think/feel/do. How big of a step back is this? I felt and still feel pretty crushed. I cried so hard last night at the fear and confusion it caused me that I ended up shaking and dizzy and he had to help me to our bed, that is now only mine He's not really onboard with Dr Harley at all, because he still says he has NEVER had romantic love for me, (even though 4 days before this all started he had told a friend that I was "the love of his life, center of his universe, best thing that ever happened to him") so he feels "pessimistic" about "growing something that has never been there in 11 years." I honestly don't believe it was never there, and rather subscribe to the view that he is in a midlife crisis, but alas that might not even matter who is right or wrong and how much on that detail. He "loves me as a friend" and I am his "best friend." Yada, yada, yada. We're still going to continue dating (we've been going on a date per week since this started, so long as I remind him to call him mom and schedule her to watch the kiddo.)

So I am completely lost. I guess it's the "space and independence" that is throwing me, because I don't see much space and independence, only a change in sleeping arrangements... and I suppose the reason that bugs me the most is that it is the only time any of my needs get met (I need Affection, and SF, which both supposedly fall very low for him) The arm over me, even if he is snoring and I'm there in a glossy insomniac rut, is the little affection I look forward to in all of this. He told me he could go stay with his mom, though he isn't really ready for that, but he would if this is farking with my head too much... but yet he wants to keep dating, etc. I feel completely emotionally drained, and I can't see clearly. Hell, do I still even bother with the dates and/or the bike gift? Help me see straight(er), please

WR, please try to stick to one thread. It's really hard to see where you've been, know your history, if you keep starting new threads.

What have you done in the last month to verify that he is no longer contacting his old friend?

First of all, you deserve a tremendous amount of credit to be proceeding with plan A, in the face of your situation. It is excruciating.

I think most here will say you are dealing with some sort of an affair, best case in withdrawal from you discovered. But very likely it has not ended, or he is becoming involved in something new. And yes, it is may be kind of a life crisis, too.

You are on an horribe ride that is not likely to end quickly or easily.

It doesn't really matter if he is on board with MB or not right now. He is unable to participate in the marriage in his present condition.

It is on your shoulders now.

My advise would be to become an expert detective and try to get to the root of the problem. I am sure the posters on Gen Questions can help you with your methods.

Grilling your husband is pointless. He will lie. He will be defensive.

Do your best Plan A, including limiting love busing and making disrespectful judgments.

He doesn't deserve your kindness, of course, but reading here and implementing the techniques is your best chance to save your marriage, if that is what you want.

And please don't beg him, or tell him he "can't" leave you because you will be forever broken. You might feel like that, but A) you are stronger than that and B) it sounds like a veiled threat.

It makes you look weak and in your husbands whacked out mind, weak is not attractive. Plus it make him pull harder in the other direction.

I really wish you the best.

What timing for your H's birthday. What is your plan today?

Whoops. I'm so used to boards that ask new topic whenever there is new biz. Maybe a mod can tack this on to my other one?

I have been watching out for the "friend." I think at worst he may still be reading her blog, which seems to have little embedded messages to him, but I'm not even sure he is doing that.

His bday was yesterday, actually, but due to paycheck constraints, I was going to give him his gift tonight so that we might enjoy it tomorrow. I was gonna buy a couple of Walmarts basic adult bikes, his and hers, and a couple of helmets (let's face it, his head is screwy enough at the moment, so I gotta protect it LOL). So I should still go on with that? I'm so confused.

As far as the leaving crushing me thing... he has told me now on a few occassions that if it wouldn't nurt me so much, he may have already left. I think he wants me to say it's OK, because then he'd feel less guilt, and off he'd go.

And, believe me, I have been watching out for whorita. I think he is in withdrawl from the EA, and still midlife-crisising.

How are you tracking him?

Does he have email at work?
Do you have access to all phone records?
Is he free to leave his work during the day?
Does he have time before or after work?
How about texts? Do you have access to his phone?

Hello WR - quick opinion for you since I am no expert but this sounds too familiar. While my H was in his A. he was slowly telling me that he wanted to remain close (I believe for the children) yet in a contradictory manner was pulling away so he could have more privacy. Yes all of this was out of the blue . . . no fighting or anything but there had to be more to it. Also the re-writing of marital history . . . mine said he never really wanted to marry me. . . it's truly painful. See if you can log into his computer or cell phone you may find the answer you are looking for. Also, he set up our babysitter so we could go on date nights every week . . . such a contradiction!

Well I don't think you should say it is OK, of course, because you are taking a stand for your marriage.

I don't think "this can't live without him thing" is a bargaining chip in the long run. You might think that playing this card is worth it, but in the long run, I disagree. Maybe other posters can weigh in.

He may feel guilty, but it is NOT going to stop him eventually. It also feeds his ego, which is super sized, right now if he is setting himself up to have two women vying for him.

What the two of you need to work on (and right now there is just you working) is a marriage of two strong committed people.

I tried to PM you. I don't want to fully reveal my techniques, as I don't want him to happen upon them if he ever decides to cruise this place... suffice it to say, I'm 98% sure I am covered.

I guess can see that, but I just don't know how to convey it well... I AM NOT OK with it. And, in truth, it's not "him" so much as that when I ponder it, I know I will NEVER put my heart out on the railroad tracks again and trust someone not to run over it. I am the Queen Of Rejection. My parents, and now my H, whom I always had every indication of happiness with/from. I can't do it again. I just can't. And I am NOT OK with this idea that he made promises to me in front of G-d and all our witnesses and now that's all a load of horse poo and our child just has to suck it up and become yet another child of divorce because he is being a selfish D***.

I don't even know how that stuff works.

Just be comprehensive. Track EVERYTHING. I know you are operating under the impression that this is about the original woman, and it may be, but keep the possibility open that he is unto someone new, or has taken the other thing further underground.

Assume he is having an affair.
Assume it is not about you.
Assume if his lips are moving, he is lying.
Plan A PLan A PLan A
No disrespectful judgements. No Love Busters.

KNOW that you are strong and capable and about to get through this.

Don't know what to say about the bikes or Bday. I where I would like to tell him where he can put his present, but it wouldn't fit.

Of course if you did that, it may fall under love buster!

whorita...that's hilarious.

Have you thought about recommending to him that he get IC? "I worry so much about you not being happy with the life, with the wife, you have chosen, and I wonder if it wouldn't be a great idea for you to explore that with a counselor? Here's a couple of names that I found close by who are taking new appointments. Of course I would not ask that you go for me. I just worry about you, because I want so much for you to be happy."

WR, you can live without him. You lived without him before, right? Didn't you breathe, walk, talk, engage before him? Ya know what, if you don't have the IRL resources right now to be strong, let us fuel your strength.

He does see an IC. His IC, from the sounds of it, sucks though. My H classifies himself in a state of "relationship ambiguity." His IC let him, in his second session, declare himself clear-headed and cured, and H went home and started packing. What he says (to me) is really about what the moment is. Sometimes he feels guilty, sometimes he feels lost, sometimes he wants, sometimes he doesn't. I really think it's midlife crisis at its' finest, just tipped off by having chatted with Whorita, even though he knows Whorita is not relationship material or even sane... And we have an MC, but I vacillate on whether it's working, or whether the counselors are good enough, or whatever.


And FHL, I am sooooo tempted to put give him the bikes and tell him where to put them. Soooooo tempted. But I am actually leaning toward going on with my plan to gift the bikes, because, well it is a very Plan A thing to do, isn't it?

Of course it is not OK with you. Of course it is not OK for him to break his marriage vows or end his marriage. I think we can all agree on that!

But you can't MAKE him stay married to you whether you are OK with it, or not. You can MAKE him have enough character to honor his vows. You just don't have that power. Using guilt as a weapon doesn't work in the long run.

Has anybody held guilt over you in the past? It may have gotten you to do something, but how did it make you feel about the person? Did it strengthen your relationship with them?

Of course choices he makes WILL have natural consequences. And those will be what slap him in the face and make him evaluate his choices. Guilt won't change his heart.

OK, maybe this says it better. I am afraid that you may feel a false sense of power by using guilt, which is not healthy for you and not healthy for your husband.

I know you are afraid, and it may even be exaggerated because of your past.

Feel the fear, but don't act on it.

I don't actually think I feel power because of it. Actually... I feel such a complete lack of power in every regard that it terrifies me, and *that* is exagerated to the max by my past.

I have to sign off for a couple hours... run some errands for work. See y'all later.

WR, have you come to clear understanding of what you want? You seem, to me, to be settling for crumbs. I understand Plan A. I understand Plan A comes from a place of strength. If I may ask, how old are you? I apologize if you've disclosed that before and I missed it. I just think it makes a difference in our (read: yours alone, and mine at younger ages) choices going forward. Youthful self-beatings differ from those we do at more advanced years...crowd, amiright?

A lot of ICs suck, imho. Still no reason to stop trying to improve oneself. Go bike-riding. Believe what your H tells you at his worst, and call him on it. You're not doing either of you any favors by waffling.

Translation: Someone else is giving him the once-over, so the greener grass is looking mighty good.

My D18 had a boyfriend earlier this year, and she went full into a Plan A for him, treated him like royalty. She hadn't had a bf in a couple years, too independent, so she just decided to see what it was like to be in a good old-fashioned love story. Well, said bf up and decides a couple months later that he never really liked her all that much and needed to break up with her, for HER sake (not to lead her on, you know).

Turns out, he had THREE other girls who were giving him the googly eye, and he thought he was gonna have a goldmine of opportunities if he'd just get rid of the girlfriend.

He ended up getting rejected by all 3 of those girls, and 6 months later, has only had one girl agree to even go on a date with him.

Grass is not always greener, but it sure looks like it, once they get the ego strokes.

IIWY, I'd just be point-blank honest with him. What you think he is doing, how it makes you feel, what you are and aren't willing to go through for him, and what you think he's heading for.

Respect yourself. It's the only way HE will.

OK, I take it all back. My 2%... well I found out he set up a whole new email account and a new Facebook account for the express purpose of contact with women who are offering sexy photos or free live webcams. I, of course, found this out after I went and bought his and hers bikes and helmets. Now what?!?! He is due home in 60-90 mins, and there are his and hers bikes and helmets parked in the basement next to his bed. Our child was with me when I bought the bikes, so she'll tell H, even if I did want to return them and forget about it. Now what?!?!? HELP!!!!!!! I would give my left arm to get Dr Harleys help here! I want my H back!

A friend said I should expose in our next MC session.

I could also skrew up the accounts in any way I want, as I have the passwords now.

What should I do if I want to save my M? Kick him out? Let him live in the basement, but amend it that he's only down there, and not visiting with me or the child and having the best of both worlds to make sure he has a reality check? I mean, I can get him a garage clicker and he can enter there at night and sleep down there and be done with it, not allowing him upstairs at all? Send him to his moms? (Who, by the way, told him not to do something stupid like throwing away an M for some dumb dream of whatever)