Sounds like you called a spade a spade. I wonder your H felt the same way about his father as he feels his kids feel about him?


You are not at fault for the A. You can't continue to cover up for his mistakes. It was his mistake. You can't control it if they "hate" their dad. It is his actions that determine that. You may not want it, but, you cannot control that. Its not yours to control.


This is so very sad. This is her father. One of the most important relationships in her life is with her father. Probably her most important relationship with a man. And that relationship is broken. That effects her life greatly. It is not trivial. It is significant.


I understand your sadness. It makes me sad as well. I don't understand why you are trying to change her mind. Should she really change her mind? Does that make logical sense. I think she is reacting appropriately based on how she was treated. Her boundary is telling her that she shouldn't be treated this way even if it is her dad that is treating her like this.

Your H needs to change but he has to want to. It is your H who needs to repair the damage he caused. He is pushing away all the people who love him by the way he treats them.

There seem to be no consequences for his behavior. For his drinking. For his rage.

Yes i did only tell him the truth. He felt that way about both of his parents. He felt neither of them "wanted" him. His father was not around (not by choice it was my H's choice not to go to his fathers house) and his mother did something that i will not discuss on this forum (not to my H) that made him feel that way about her as well.



I know it was not my fault in any way, heck if conditions were ripe for an A it should have been me not him. However i did have some part in the way our M was.

And my ODD said basically what you are saying, her exact words were "it doesn't matter that he only cheated on YOU not US, he knew the consequences of his actions". I know all three of my children were on "my side" if you will. My son had the hardest time because of sports he is closer to his dad than the girls are.


BELIEVE ME I KNOW THIS IS SIGNIFICANT!!!! The night it happened i was devasted, both of my girls hated me for a few days because they said i "sided" with their dad by not making him leave for talking to my YDD (and my DS when he protected his sister) the way he did (my ODD was not living at home by then, she left right after my H came back home because she was mad that i let him come back, both girls were). I cried every day that my YDD was not at home. It was HORRIBLE!!!!


I agree with you however i wanted her to still have a "relationship" with her dad. I do not blame her if she ever has respect for him, there was absolutely positively no excuse for a person to talk to another person the way he did much les HIS OWN DAUGHTER!!! And this is still a touchy subject between him and I.


There has been consequences and changes throught out the years.

I don't doubt this.

What I don't understand is how you can then say that other than this it hasn't affected our life.

I'm not sure I need to get it, but, I find it as a way to minimize it or downplay the severity of it in some way.



I understand your point. I also understand her point. The thing that is missing is your H.


Your probably getting tired of me saying this. But, he is still an alcoholic. He has an addiction. He still rages.

The only response i can make is obviously what i have done was not enough.

I have ruined my childrens lives even though i have tried really hard to make sure they KNEW the things their dad does is not "normal".

I have tried to save my H and have made him a far better man than he was when i met him.

I really just don't even know how to live my life any different.

You have given me many more things to think about but right now i don't want to talk about this anymore.

BTW i wanted to say that i did not mean for the above post to come off sounding mean or defensive or sarcastic or anything other than serious.

I have always worried what effect my H's rage had on my children. I never considered the drinking. Now i am just feeling really bad about it. Like i did not protect them and that is what i am supposed to do as a parent.

And i just do not like talking about that night. It haunts me to this day.

He too was DEVASTED when he realized what he had said to his daughter. He was so drunk he did not remember i had to tell him what he said. He switched to the NA beer that day and has done a good job at keeping it up. That was a little more than a year ago.

My H does really feel bad when he rages. He apologizes and cries, he hates his temper although he said he has been that way for as long as he could remember.

Throughout the years between me and him working together he really has improved so much. I really think that he should go to a counselor and have thought that since i got to know him and have always tried to get him to, but never forced the issue. I can not make him go but i certainly could have made it a condition to remain married to me.

Now i do not know if i have a "snowball's chance in he!!" of ever recovering my M.

All of this infidelity crap and all of the other stuff too.

Why do i even bother trying.

My H said something to me this morning that really bothered me and i am not sure if it should have but it did.

Hi SC

Just dropped in, haven't read your whole thread just the beginning and end.

My H has rages and is totally devastated afterwards. I asked my H to go for counselling for my 30th b'day - insisted that was all I wanted. He went and it has sort of helped but not cured the problem. I'm surprised that if he is upset then at that point he isn't willing to do something to sort it.

We are now able to deal with it better and we try to discuss it with the children (although only 3 and 5). How do yours feel about it?

I have made it a condition with my H for our M and we are and have tried lots - as you may have seen from my thread we are now considering the possibility of BP disorder.

He has also just got a book for men about dealing with anger which came highly recommended - if you're interested I'll let you have the title.

What did he say?

ST

Some info.

Alcoholic spouse #1

Alcoholic spouse #2

Alcoholic spouse #3

And I got the snowball's chance in hell comment.....

I know that both myself and my H just feel uncomfortable talking to a "complete stranger" about our personal problems. I can say that in Sept or Oct of 2008 he started having panic attacks (which i had went through a few months befoer he did and i started seeing an IC (both of which i went to i thought were "quacks") mainly because of my job and i was missing work because of the panic attacks.

He had only been on his new job for a few months and was not able to take any time off of work so he talked to his boss and his boss suggested using their employee mental health place.

He did go to a counselor there and they sent him to a physchiatrist (sp ?). With one visit she said that she felt he was borderline either BP or maniac/depressive. However he is not seeing her as a counselor but just gets medicine (which has made a HUGE difference he seems like a totally different person). However the medicine (klonopin) can have effects on his liver (and since he does drink she was concerned about that) so she wants him to get off of it (i really wish she wouldn't because his "rage" is SO MUCH better since he has been taking it).


My kids have always hated their dad's "rage". Actually me, my ODD and my DS pretty much just leave him alone when he is like that, we do not talk to him or anything. My YDD however is a lot like him and she will get right back in his face which is what happened the night he said those AWFUL things to her (not trying to down play it or make it HER fault because it was not but that is what happened).


Well it certainly would not hurt.


Like i had posted earlier he has been having "male" problems ever since he had to have part of his lung removed right after the A. Well i think now that he is taking the other meds he takes it is becomong more of an issue in his mind. So he wants to see our family doctor regarding it and he wants me to go along (so the doctor knows that it is an issue). I had asked him earlier in the week if he had made an appointment yet because i need to know when so i can request the time off if it is during my work hours.

So out of the blue this morning (heck when he first said it i was not even sure what he was talking about) he said he was going to call the doctor today and i said for what we had discussed and he said yes.

Then he said i do not worry about it when i am at home or around you because i am comfortable, but i worry about it when i am at work. And i am just not sure how to take that and i did not have time to go into it with him because i was running late.

My goodness this turned into a "novel" sorry about that!!

You did? There was no hidden meaning to me. What did you think i meant?

ST,

I forgot to add that my H's "rage" problem has been a problem since he was a child (i am not sure when it started although i have my guess that it was either when his parents divorced or when he had the issue with his mother).

His sisters have told me stories of how his "rage" was when they were kids.

Has your H's "rage" been going on that long?

SC

SC

I think so. His mum certainly makes reference to hellish times with him. He doesn't have siblings and hates me talking to his parents. DOesn't want them to think that anything is much less than perfect. I'd liket o get a bit more of a history though. He seems not to be able to remeber much at all form his childhood.

The book is

Beyond Anger - A guide for men. Thomas J harbinn isbn-13:978-1-56924-621-4

I have been forbidden from reading it. THis is H taking control of his problem.

Can they find a med that he can drink with. Form what I can gather the meds are essential. He needs to get fit first.

ST

That would be difficult, i do at least have all of his history, he has told me things about himself that he said he has never told anyone except me.


I will see if it is something my H would read and look for it.


Well i do not know for me if this would be a good thing or a bad thing. My H usually always asks my opinion on things so he would probably want me to read it too and then ask what i think and then decide for himself (probably by someone else telling him what they think even if it is the same thing i tell him, sometimes i do not get why he asks for my opinion)


If he truly is BP or manic/depressive then yes the meds are essential (this is just by internet research i have done). However since he does not see this woman as a counselor she can not really diagnose him as such.

And she tells him that it would be best if he DOES NOT DRINK while taking the meds.

I am sure that you will not agree but none of those letters sounds like my H to ME.

To me his alcohol does NOT control his life. That is just my opinion.

Other than during the time the ENIL was at our home he very rarely has been what i would call "drunk" (during the A and when the ENIL lived with us he was "drunk" pretty much every day).

I just still do not really believe his alcohol is our problem. I have never asked him to quit, slow down, or anything, his drinking until the night with our daughter.

And like i said he now drinks NA beer unless him and i are out and then he drinks real beer or a mixed drink. But i will say that we have a "date night" once a week.

What do I have to agree with? I don't know the guy. I only know what you tell me.

And, what you say contradicts itself. One moment he is an alcoholic and the next minute he isn't. You got me. It's making me crazy.

The reason i say he is an alcoholic is because he drinks alcohol every day. To me that is an alcoholic.

However he has never let it control his life.

Sure we have had arguments and things that have occurred because he had been drinking. But for the most part it has not interfered with our lives.

We were together 4 years before we had any kids and we love the outdoors. So we would do outdoor things all the time (camping, hiking, canoeing, white water rafting, frisbee golfing, rock climbing)

After the kids were born we continued to do all of those things with our kids. While our kids were young we ALWAYS had them with us, we never left them with a sitter nor did they stay over night with anyone until they were big enough to stay with their friends. Except once a year on the weekend closest to our anniversary my niece would keep them on Saturday night so we could do something for our anniversary.

We have done more with our kids than most of the people we know. They have been on many vacations and got to see many sights in many different places. We have never missed any of their sporting events or academic events or choir concerts nothing.

That is why i say that my Hs drinking does NOT control his life. He has been a great dad. If you take away the A and that night my kids would still think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread i am sure.

It just so happened that that night was EXTREME even for my H.

He came home after staying with the OW (because i kicked him out) for three days on Super Bowl Sunday of 2007, the night he and my DD got into it was Super Bowl Sunday of 2008. So on sporting events he drinks more (and the ENIL was here drinking with him that day) and i am sure it was on his mind about what had occurred the year before on the same day.

Like i said i am not trying to down play that night at all as it was HORRIBLE. But there were things going on besides the fact that he was stupidly drunk.

I just do not feel like my H lets his alcohol control his life.

I had been thinking the best way to describe my H's drinking and i would have to say the best way is that he is a "social drinker" on an "every day basis".

Occasionally he has a few too many (mainly on weekends through out the years). Very seldom in the 25 years has he had WAY TOO MANY.

So IMO he would be considered an alcoholic because he drinks every daybut that is why i call him (and my dad) a "functioning alcoholic".

Maybe in your opinion that is not an alcoholic, i do not know.

SC:

Stop making excuses for his alcoholism.

HE drinks every day.
HE Drinks to excess, and has sex with other women.
HE flys off into "rages" because....????

This is WHAT HE IS.

Take your blinders off. See him for WHAT HE IS.

Now he is on anti-depressants, or something that takes him the other way, and he seems "Better" and you like this GUY.

But he's still an alcoholic.

My Dad made it to a number of my activities when I was younger. I thought he was a great Dad.

Except when he raged.
And he Drank.
And he slept with other women
And finaly died with only bottles for friends.

Take off the blinders.

Alcoholics have been lying so long that they think that they can get away with anything, because its not polite to call a "drunk" a "DRUNK"

Sorry SC, I would rather talk to you about his inappropriate flirting. But I guess I get to talk to you about this.

LG

I was the first one to say he is an alcoholic. However what i did say was that he does not let it interfere with his life IMO.

Yes he drinks every day which makes him an alcoholic.

He SOMETIMES drinks to excess and he has only had sex with one other woman and that was after 23 years of being together and during that time in his life he was drinking to excess every day for about a 2 year or so period (he slowly started drinking more and more each day while the ENIL lived with us and then it got really bad after his mom died in July 2006). Unfortunately hence the A and the reason i am here on MB to begin with.

His "rage" started when he was young. His sisters have told me many stories of his rage when he was young and he did not drink then. He was a big jock in school and should have been a professional baseball player (and i am not just saying that he went to spring training camp with the Philadelphia Phillies). And his rage has IMPROVED DRASTICALLY through the years. And his rage can happen at any time.


Maybe you are all right about me being in denial but i can tell you that IMO (and i am the one who lives with him) his drinking does not and has not (except for those 2 years and "that night") been a big problem.

And he has not just made it to a number of activities. He has never missed any activity for any of the 3 children. And since he quit playing softball (when our DS turned 4 and started playing T-Ball) he has never missed a family function. It has always been ALL 5 of us doing things together (until the kids got older and it was no longer "cool" to hang out with your parents ) and we are very active.

Because alcohol is so "socially acceptable" he can drink a couple of beers pretty much any where we go and he is happy with a couple of beers. He drinks more when he is watching his favorite teams play and that is usually at home in his "man cave" in the garage. On rare occasions usually when someone has a party he gets "drunk".

His "rage" on the other hand (which is not an every day or even every week or even every month occurrence) does bother all of us and has caused far more issues.


I wish we could talk about the innappropriate flirting as well. However it is best to talk about everything as it all is part of our marriage.