MichelleG you are right. I need to stop denying that I care. I do. My brother asked me a question that I could not answer today. He wondered if we go down the path of NC am I really strong enough to do that? If she calls and needs help will I bail her out? I know today's easy answer is no. I am living in the moment. I know what the right answer is. I know what is (or appears to be kind) the thing my heart would lead me to do. Maybe the harshness of Plan B and NC is something that will harden (or strengthen) my heart? As unkind as WW has been I have no desire to see bad things happen to her. That may be a flaw in my character?

rosecroix

Mel, yes please, I would really appreciate the template you mentioned. It would help me a lot! Thank you.

RC, you are doing great! I know how hard this is. Keep fighting for your marriage, even if it feels hopeless. It's hard to look at everything our WS has done and feel ANY hope, but it CAN bet better! And we are all here for you.

And by assisting her, when the bads things are consequences of her A, is enabling her A. Do you see that? You cannot change who she is or what she is doing but you can allow those bad consequences to be felt by her. THAT is what will change what she is doing. She has to hit bottom. You have to let her. Do NOT protect her from the consequences of her own actions.

It seems counterintuitive, right? But she has to start to own her behavior and her actions.



Your strength is the only thing that will save this M. Can you afford to be weak?

Again WOW. Hard but kind words from all of you. Melodylane your response reminds me very much of my Dad who has passed. He was a wonderful father. He was very to the point. Thank you for being to the point.

I spoke with my counselor who is a MB/LB advocate, but he seemed a little less inclined to give my particular situation any hope. I have some real work to do tonight. Before I came here earlier in the week I asked WW to see him Thursday and she reluctantly agreed. He doesn't see it as worthwhile, but not harmful for her to come. I can send a clear message by telling her I have reconsidered and she can skip the session. I have told her plainly that my belief is counseling is the only way to fix this. His concern is how long the EA has lasted and that it maybe very difficult to get her to see her errors.

Is it worth it for me to try plan A for a bit and see where this goes? I can do that. I am also willing to do Plan B. I essentially tried Plan A last summer without knowing I was doing it. Does that count?

I know I won't have to request thoughts here....

Plan A is a great refuge for conflict avoiders, did you know that? But Plan A is much more than avoiding lovebusters, it includes causing as much trouble in the affair as possible. I haven't seen you do that at all. just the opposite, I see you enabling the affair.

You have no plan and no strategy here, Rose. Hope is not a plan. It is a waste of your time.

I fear this is a very misplaced belief and disappointment will be your lot in life. Marriage counseling is for RECOVERY and recovery is impossible when there is an ongoing affair. Counseling is useless until the affair ends.

Instead of this needless distraction, how about getting up off the ground and trying to bust up this affair? Is that too much work?

This is Plan A: [please note that taking a NAP is not included on this list]

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

ok well no plan A for me this evening. At dinner I asked her why she had taken off her heart locket that I had given when we were dating. She said I had hurt her feelings and that she might put it back on later. This led us right back to all the things I have done wrong. I listened and then I said politely and to the point that yes I had contributed to the problems in our marriage but that choosing to continue a relationship with OM, and not willing to discuss the lies were a show stopper for me. I was clear that he must go for us to continue. The rest of this evening so far is hell. She has emailed me, threatened to call the police and tell them she is afraid of me, dropped our link on facebook, told me that I must get rid of my computer if she gets rid of OM and generally made this evening misery. It is like living with a demon. It unfathomable for me to understand where all this is coming from.

A mistake I made that I cannot undo is several years back she was engaged in an email friendship that I always felt funny about. It was fairly open, but I thought a little odd. I pushed the issue and she says she stopped, but I know she did not. I let it go. I even told her that I was wrong that it was ok to get her to drop it. Now she is comparing this to the OM and all the lies. She tells me I am trying to ruin her only true friend and am a miserable $$$$ for even still breathing.

sucks to be me.

You are playing with fire, RC. She can have you tossed into jail at the drop of a hat. All she has to do is call the police and you are going to jail and the locks are changed. A woman who threatens to do this when her H asks her to stop a "friendship" is dangerous.

It is not like you just have yourself to worry about, you have a DD there is watching this horror show. She is witness to your W's adultery and justifications and is watching her stepmother bully her father. I hope she doesn't watch the police cart you off to jail.

I would start planning for a separation if I were you. Can you send your DD to her mother or grandmother to get her out of this?

I can see his point.

RC, would it be possible to speak to her Xhusband and find out what happened to end their marriage? What we usually see is a pattern.

Also, was she divorced when you met?

MelodyLane,

I understand about playing with fire. I guess that is the part about Plan A that confuses me the most. I believe that any exposure will always result in her unrestrained anger. She doesn't want this out there. I talked with a close friend of hers last night and she immediately called WW and she is mad about that. This is a dangerous walk. Where I am it is worse than you can imagine. No probable cause. Very backward place.

Got an email from her tonight that essentially says "you won I will stop". Of course I would not be able to verify nor will she agree that full open disclosure is an essential part of this. It means nothing. This game is killing me. How do I have any time to devote to being the nice guy? How do I build up good vibes? All this holding to task and keeping the heat up on him or me. She is totally not receptive to anything I do good.

I know you all have the answers. I am willing to do this. I am willing to fight. I know this is counter-intuitive.

she was divorced 3+ years and I was 2+ when we met. Her ex is a lost cause.

a very tired person.......

ok, so your goal is to avoid making her angry at all costs instead of saving your marriage? Is she bigger than you? Does she beat you? I am trying to understand how she intimidates you so badly.

RC, of course she doesn't want the world to know. A's THRIVE in secrecy. It's part of the excitement. So you take that away. Shine the light of day on this fantasy. When you do, the ugliness of it can be seen by everyone, including your WW. It damages the A. That's a GOOD thing.

And you CAN survive her anger. Your M can survive her anger. But it will not survive if her A continues.

Think of this woman as an alien. She is not your W. You have to fight to get your W back. Will you lay down and let the A live on?

Believe it or not, some day you may even be thanked by her BECAUSE you fought for her.

gah

Pure manipulation on her part. Almost abuse.

See your lawyer tomorrow and find out what you have to do to get her out of the house and total child custody for you.

And one last thing before you kick her out (before she kicks YOU out): make a list of all her family and friends, YOUR family and friends, and the OM's family and friends.

Then you sit down and start calling each and every one of them, and tell them what she is doing. Do NOT tell her you are going to do it. This is called exposure. What it does is it gets all the people who don't want her to continue her affair(s) to put pressure on her and OM to stop!

It also makes the affair look as slimy and sleazy as it really is. Once everyone knows what she's doing, it won't be fun any more. It will be humiliating.

My wife has a temper. I know big deal she will get over it. That is not what is bothering me at this point. I am struggling with understanding how this will leave anything but a bad impression with her? With all the screaming and fighting there are VERY few opportunities to do anything to make any deposits in her or my love bank. This is what I need to understand. The rest below is probably me ranting, blowing off steam and answering s question or two.

I have been on point all week. In all of our conversations I am clear there is no OM in my future and she must decide if it (our futures) involves us being together. I really can't make it any plainer to her. That is the issue now. She is like a caged animal. She is trapped and she knows it. She had done some frankly odd things. I realize this is the affair. I realize this is the addiction, the being caught etc. She tried all evening to negotiate or placate. I understand she is trying to get this to quiet down. She is struggling with me being resolute in my decision. I can take the abuse. I can not blink. I'm not happy about separation or D, but I will survive through that.

No she is not bigger. She does get physical at times, but I can deal with that. I am not afraid of conflict. We have disagreed many times in our marriage and IMHO both of us can get way to entreched in an idea and argue well beyond a point's practicality.

I have a friend who is a lawyer and I am pretty well up to speed on that part. There are no kids between us. My DD is not her bio. Her DD also lives with us but is 18 and not my bio. There really is not a whole lot of finances to agonize over. I live in pretty much a 50/50 state. I will most likely pay alimony for a while if we get a D or legally separate. She has lost her job (working in the same place OM did) under unusual circumstances.

I feel like a one man band being chased by a rabid dog.

Simple.

YOU DON'T TAKE HER BACK WITHOUT FULL, OPEN DISCLOSURE, ACCESS TO ALL HER PASSWORDS AND ACCOUNTS, A KEYLOGGER ON ALL HER COMPUTERS AND A GPS ON HER CAR.

PERIOD.

ETA: To do anything LESS than this would be the one dumb mistake you have made. And you'll pay for it for the rest of your life by giving her the green light to keep cheating on you.

Rose, have you read anything here? Do you understand the mechanics of stopping an affair? That it involves exposing the affair to the very people to whom your wife needs to be humbled, in order to see the pain she has caused?

Right now, your W is NOT humble. As you said, she is a veral caged animal. There IS NO RATIONALIZING with her right now. They say here at MB that people who get into affairs become aliens, or that an alien invades their body. A fog covers them so they can't see the 'real' world - only the world that revolves around keeping their affair going.

The ONLY way to stop this, to get your real wife back, is to expose. So that the affair is guaranteed to stop. If her parents know what she did, if her sister knows what she did, if the OM's wife knows what he did, these people will WATCH HER. Like a hawk. They will help you help her.

Exposing is not vindictive. It is medicinal. It is the only procedure that will stop their affair. Unless you want to just hang on, let her have her fun, and sit around and hope that he does something to tick her off, or she ticks him off, and they break up. Of course, then, she'll just go out looking for another new Joe.

Exposure works. If you'll read some of the other threads, you'll see that the men who took swift, decisive action to call everyone who matters in her family, his family, and OM's family, THE AFFAIR STOPPED. It has to. All those people will simply not allow it to continue.

Sure she'll be mad. SO WHAT?

Do you want a wife? Then expose. She WILL GET OVER HER ANGER once the fog clears, and the alien is replaced with your real wife. She will be appalled at what she did to you.

But not if you don't expose.

ETA: You should NOT even be thinking about Love Banks right now. There is NO SUCH THING when your wife is in an affair. Got it?

Ok the heat is on. I am getting ANGRY emails from her with all sorts of suggestions that we are through. They are centered around the exposure and my unwillingness to negotiate on her keeping "just a friendship". I have to say I am worn down. I cannot bear to hear another bad thing about my character from someone that I supposedly love and loves me. Everything I have ever done is being recanted and I am being told she has no hope for us. The whole world is my fault.

Again I need to understand how any of this is building up love units? I am being kind, no argumentive and showing no unkind emotions. Doesn't seem to help. Where and when does the carrot and stick come into play. I see this as heading quickly to separation (which is ok with me) but I thought I read plan a as different?

I just have to ask a question. She won't let me alone about my decision of NC for OM. She keeps telling me she wants to be left alone and I am trying. Yet she is doing all sorts of odd things to get my attention and bug me. Is this normal or is she trying to set me up or to get me angry? Pulling pictures off the wall and always trying to get the last word. I need to be above this. I need to smile and not let it bug me. I know that, but this alien woman who looks like my wife is wearing me down.

rosecroix