He is used to doing his own thing. That is a bad thing. I wouldn't ask to get back in the bedroom. Just do it. Ignore him if he is rude. It's your bed too. Don't talk about it or make a big deal about it. Just get in bed and see what happens. Baby steps. Will he push you out? This is a long process. He has been doing his own thing for a long time. He is having the most fun without you. Don't ask to tag along or ask for his permission. Tell him that you want to go with him. Tell him that you want him to take you to the driving range and show you how to swing. Chip away at it. See if that helps. Recreational Activities are important to him. He just doesn't believe that they will be fun with you. You can change his mind. You have to have tough skin though. He is going to be a jerk about it until you can change his mind. Don't give up. Keep plugging away.

Hi Gabzz, I would not offer any R talk at all to H. ACTIONS speak louder than words. Men are not verbal.
When you show up in the garden and start working side by side, when you continue to lose weight to show you care about yourself, when your self esteem goes up and he sees your confidence -- all indicators of a healthy positive woman.

Start to flirt with him. Go back to when you met him and the things you had a laugh about. It is the way you say it.
eg:

That is a really nice shirt --- (blah)
Wow you look hot in that tight shirt (flirty)

Since I am alone it gives me much time to think of all the things I coulda, woulda, shoulda, and instead did nothing and my WH leaving me for the plastic pinata.

If anything I know my eyes are wide open now and have to continue on myself for myself.

We are your cheerleaders!

[quote=GABZZ
You are right Sere, RC is not on of his top EN, he does love to garden and to give him credit when my brother died in an accident in 2002 he planted a lovely tree outside the house for me in his memory and when my mother died in 2006 he planted a lovely weeping cherry blossom in her memory so he does have his nice side:) He is the gardener in the house even though i do a little bit in the back garden but not as much as him so maybe i will start to take an interest in the garden which might encourage him to join me. Cooking is not a big interest of mine and it is definately not his.

Thanks for the positive outlook you have on my sitch, i really need to hear that sometimes as it can become very discouraging with no positive feedback coming my way.

At the moment he is treating me fine, he is polite and chats away to me about himself and his work and anything to do with the kids etc but there is NEVER any relationship talk at all so to be honest you hit the nail on the head when you asked me if felt safe enough to talk to him about the future and my answer is a big NO, it scares the living daylights out of me that maybe he would say that he still feels the same and wants to split up when our DD is 18. I need to see some positive feedback in order to feel safe enough to talk to him about it.

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas they are appreciated big time as usual.

Gabrielle x

[/quote]

Hi Gabrielle,

I completely understand where you are coming from. So, talk about the future is out for now, also serious talk about the relationship is out. You are building your self esteem, and doing a great job of it so if you are worried about your self esteem taking a knock by pushing him too fast, then quite simply, don't push it for now. Remember, small steps.

I think if I were you, I would work on meeting his EN's and then add some light flirting, hold eye contact with him when talking to him, even when talking about inconsequential things, really listen attentively and affirm what he says as much as you can. Play with your hair, flutter those eyelashes, do things he likes. Do these things as often as you can, and then build up to flirty comments, suggestive remarks etc.

He probably won't respond at first because he has forgotten the flirty fun you and will not quite believe flirty you can come back, but eventually he will. One day you will notice him looking at you in a different way, or you will catch him watching you, he will start to flirt back, and then you can start your journey back to the marital bed without taking the risk of the rejection you are so frightened of.

Remember, we don't know you or your H. YOU KNOW the best way for you to go. We can just give you opinions and options that you may not have thought of, and we will be here to support you all the way.

Let us know how you're getting on.

Love xx

Hi Gabzz, I've been doing some thinking.

You are scared of having a talk with your H about the future and what it holds for you, but your H has said he is definitely staying till your D is 18, so you can talk about the near future, up till she is 18 at least.

So how about a conversation about the coming summer and your plans for all the family to have a great one, one to remember. You could say something like - "this lovely weather has got me really excited about the summer we can have and the things we can do. I would love it if we could all....../...... (insert nice things to do). Is there anything you would like us to do to make this a memorable summer for our family"?

Making plans for the next few months may not be so intimidating for you, and he should not feel too pressured because you both accept that you will still be together for this time period anyway.

Or you could ask him and the children for help sorting out the family picture albums of all your past holidays as a family. I have some lovely picture frames that hold from 6 to 24 photos, and I do one of these for each holiday we have, and they line the walls of our hall and stairs. Everyone loves them.

It's lovely to look back on these photos, and remember the happy times we all had. So, how about you all doing some reminiscing about your happy times together as a family and making a family photo frame. I do at least one a year and my FWH loves to join in and pick his favourite pictures. It also gets you talking and remembering the good old days, and it may help to jog his memory of how much fun you can have together.

Just a couple of ideas I had for you. I hope they help, even if it is only to let you know that we are thinking about you.

Take care,

love xx

Hi SS,

You are right, he does his own thing no matter what i think but i dont know how to turn that around now because he doesnt seem to care what i think. Funny thing is when he is on 24 hour duty away from home, i normally go back into our bed and when he comes home next day he doesnt ask me what i am doing there he seems to accept that i am there when he is away (this is mad i know! the behaviour patterns we get ourselves into is crazy)

I dont think he would push me out of bed but he would probably tell me he didnt want me there. I know i would feel really weird sleeping beside him after being on my own for so long.

I will just keep plugging away as you said.

Thanks for your help.

I think you are right, actions do speak louder than words and i am trying to do little things for him to show i care for him, for example today i bought him 2 tshirts and i text him to tell him what i had bought for him and to tell him i got a large size, he text me back and said thanks, i hope they fit. I took your advice and decided to have a little flirt with my answer so i text him back saying " well i hope they do fit but i cannot be sure because you are really big on top, and other places i could mention too! he never answered me

Lost another two pounds this week so plan gabzz is well underway so thank you so much for being my cheerleader

Hiya Sere,

We have two holidays planned for the summer and i am really looking forward to them, husband seems to be all for them, he is not saying anything negative at all so that is good. In June we are going to Majorca for 1 week after DD sits her junior exams and then in the middle of august we are going to the Holiday home in Spain for nearly 3 weeks.

I will definately sleep beside him when we go to our holiday place, for some reason i am ok with this, maybe because it is not our usual thing to do so it doesnt feel so awkward to me.

I asked him if we could do some sightseeing when we go to spain and he was all for it saying we could drive to different places while we are there.

Will definately get the photo albums out for a trip down memory lane this weekend. Thanks for all your ideas and help, i really appreciate it.

Love

Gabrielle x

How did the weekend go Gabzz?

Been thinking about you and looking forward to your update.

Hi Sere,
Weekend went ok,, Didnt go anywhere or do anything interesting really. I am walking away and feel good in myself, the weight loss was at a standstill for a while and thats why i went back to weight watchers, so far i have lost 3 lb in the two weeks since i rejoined. My weigh in day is thursdays so i will keep you posted.

Getting frustrated at the moment with the lack of anything positive from H, i dont know how much longer i can keep this up. I just feel so lonely at times, i just long for a hug from him but thats not going to happen anytime soon. There is no physical contact at all between us except the night he came home from spain i gave him a big hug to thank him for the gift and he was receptive and then when we were out on sat night he was passing me by and he put his hand on my shoulder for a minute, thats it, thats the sum total of any physical contact i have with him and it is so frustrating. I am not sure if he will ever soften towards me he just seems so switched off. I will give you an example of his behaviour towards me:

Yesterday he went to visit his parents, his mam is only out of hospital after having a mild stroke. I was asking him all about her and how she was doing and he was so concerned that she might end up in a home and i offered to have her come stay with us if it comes to that, he thanked me and was chatty for a while and then he said he was going to bed. His usual way of saying good night to me is in an abrupt tone like "Im off to bed bye" or "Goodnight" or something like that but it is never said in a nice way or a soft way, it is always abrupt even if we are after having a nice evening he always ends it abruptly and this drives me mad. Is like no matter how good or how positive a day it has been, the veil always comes down over him at the end of it.

Its the same anytime he leaves the house to go somewhere and he is saying goodbye, and maybe we had been chatting away with each other and getting on ok and then bam the veil will come down again and the abrupt tone comes in again and its BYE, or SEE YOU LATER, or whatever but its not what he says really its the way he says it and the tone. Its as if he is saying to me "thats just in case you thought i was getting soft towards you"

I dont know if you understand what i am saying Sere, i probably didnt explain it too well? I am just so fed up with this treatment, i wouldnt mind sucking it up if i thought that there was some light at the end of the tunnel but there seems to be no give in him at all and i am just fed up and lonely now and sometimes i wish i could meet someone else that would be glad to have a loving relationship with me.

Sorry for venting but i had to get this off my chest Thanks for listening to me


Gabrielle x

I read something in one of the Harley books. I don't remember which one but your post reminded me. It went like this:

You are on one side of the river. You want to cross but the water is too deep. All you have to build a bridge is rocks so you throw a rock in the river. You can't see the rock. You throw another rock and another. You still can't see any progress. You keep throwing rocks at the river. Eventually, you have a bridge. It takes a lot of rocks that you can't see. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they aren't there, under the surface building a bridge.

Also, if you get back in your bed and your husband may or may not say something negative. You could say that you are tired of sleeping somewhere else. I wouldn't make a big deal about it. He may not say anything. If he is like my husband, he will never come and ask you back. You will have to come back to bed on your own. You are wasting so much time sleeping somewhere else!

About his tone when he goes to bed: Maybe he would be in a better mood if he wasn't going to bed alone. You know that he has mentioned it and yet you still don't sleep in your marriage bed. You are being stubborn. There is no place for stubborness in a happy marriage. He knows that he is not happy but doesn't know how to fix this. You can fix this.

Keep coming here to vent. Don't vent at your husband for now. Nobody is perfect. Your husband wants to have a loving relationship with you but doesn't know where to start. Show him with your softness and loving gestures. Eliminate the LB's and meet his needs. Keep throwing your rocks at the river.

Nice post SS2. I think that is just what Gabrielle needs to read right now. I am also in agreement with you about H's tone when he says goodnight. He is letting you know that despite the two of you getting on a little better during the day, you both still sleep in separate beds at night. He isn't happy about this situation.

The question is what are you willing to do about it. He's not giving you signals that you are picking up on but that doesn't mean he isn't giving you subtle signals. You have both been so distant for so long that you are out of touch with each others body language and gestures.

It's so tough when you have low self esteem to put your feelings out there because the fear of rejection is overwhelming, but I think the time is coming for you to have a real talk with H.

Has he opened up to you at all Gabrielle? Has he made any comments about the changes in you and your behaviour towards him?

What do you feel strong enough to tell him about how you feel towards him now? And what do feel able to share with him about your hopes for the future with him?

I'm worried about you Gabrielle. This is hard. Doing all this work and getting no immediate reward is tough and I don't want you to give up but your LB is obviously way low at the moment, and I think you need to do something about that.

I have to go now to put the baby to bed but will get back to you again later.

xx

Gabby, don't get discouraged. Look how loooonnnnngggg it took to get in this rut. It will take at least 1/2 of that time to get on track. I know you are terrified of rejection. It does play havoc with our self esteem.

I think the reason your H gets very curt and marches off to the bedroom by himself is he is at a point that neither of you can jump off the fence and get back together. I think he had pride and when you moved out of the bedroom he took a hard stance. You both have to soften your hearts to move ahead.

Me thinks that he is waiting for you to make that move and you are waiting for him to make the move. It is called Stalemate in chess.

Some ideas to get back into the bedroom.

If his Mom moves in while sick, you move back into the bedroom.

Pretend you have a nightmare about 3 am. Go into the room..say I am scared and jump into bed.

Go out one night have a few extra drinks -- pass out on HIS bed.

Does he want a Man's room, game room, movie room or office. Tell him that the spare room is wasted space and ask what his dream room would be. Win win -- he gets a room to be a man--you get back into your room.

And the list goes on. Whoa whoa.

Hi SS,

Thanks for helping me out here, I like that description about the rocks, i know it takes a long time to get results from all my plan Aing but its one hell of a tough road to be on and one hell of a bridge to be built.

I suppose when i look at the bigger picture it does seem to be getting better bit by bit, for instance this time last year he wouldnt go out of his way to do anything for me whereas now if i asked him to help me out with anything, he would.

I have been in the spare room so long now it would seem strange for me to just go back into my own bed and say nothing to him about it. Hell would freeze over before he would ask me back into the bed and i dont blame him for that because it was me who moved out, i would be the same as him and you are right i am as stubborn as he is at times.

I will keep throwing the rocks in the river SS and thanks very much for your post it really helped me out today.

Hi Sere,

The time for that talk needs to come soon i know but i am just so scared about it, what if he says he doesnt want to work at the marriage? I dont know what i would do, i couldnt stay here in this house with him if he said that to me. Im just afraid of what he will say but i know i cannot put it off much longer.

He hasnt opened up to me at all, he hasnt said one word about what i said to him regarding my feelings for him other than that he had taken on board what i said and that was it! thats what makes it so hard, but this is nothing new, he has never been very open when it comes to relationship talk.

Dont be worrying about me Sere i am fine, i am fed up at the moment but i will bounce back i always do im just not so sure about how much more of this i can take, it is really draining. Its 2 years now or more since he told me he wanted out of the M so its been a long time living like this.

As i said to SS earlier, when i look back to what it was like even as far as last summer things have improved between us a lot but the distance thing is still there and i dont know how to get through to him. I dont know if he wants me back in the bedroom at all, i dont think he does, he hasnt given me any indication that he wants to work on our relationship at all.

I will talk to him soon and i am just going to tell him what i feel, how i want the chance to meet his EN that i have neglected in the past, how i want our marriage to be different and better than it was before, that he needs to meet my EN too,
I cannot bury my head in the sand for much longer Sere so watch this space!

Thanks as always for your valuable advice, i really appreciate it so much. x

Hi Hope,

You are so right, rejection really is horrible and plays havoc with our self esteem. Before he had the affair i was fine my self esteem was right up there but when that happened it just plummeted off the cliff and i have been struggling with it ever since. But its only where he is concerned, i get myself into knots worrying about how i look to him, am i getting older looking, do i have wrinkles, the list goes on and it all stems from the fact that he traded me in for a younger piece of trash who was only 20 at the time and i was 35.

We are at a stalemate you are right! i will have that chat with him soon and see where the land lies, i cannot keep this up for much longer or i will lose my marbles He is on 24 hour duty on friday and sunday of this week so i am not going to see much of him and he is off playing golf on sat for most of the day so i dont know when i am going to get a chance on my own with him.

Thanks for your help Hopie, i appreciate it as always

Girls could you give me some direction as how to put it to him in a way that tells him i am committed to making the m work but also letting him know that he has to put in the work too.

I need to get him to see what is at stake here especially where the kids are concerned, i know they are 19 and 15 now but they still need their parents, and also the fact that we are 22 years married in June and what we stand to lose financially if we split up, not that i see that as a reason to stay together but all the same it would mean everything we had worked for together would be gone down the tubes.

Hi Gabzz,

I'm going to put some thought into this today and get back to you later. It nees a lot of careful consideration. One thing I would say though is that it may still be too early to ask anything of your H, except of course to be open minded about MB principles and the fact that you CAN build a great M, even from the place you two are at now.

Of course, he will have to, at some point make efforts to meet your EN's, but I think it is important for you to get him to see your changes first before you "tell" him what he should do. Telling him he has to do something now could push him away, but letting him know you are open to him doing things is slightly different.

Has he noticed you reading the books? Have you left them lying around in the house so that he can dip into them if he wishes?

As I said, I'm going to do some thinking about your situation and get back to you later.

Stay positive Gabrielle. Never forget this is a long journey so please don't get discouraged too early in the process. You have a lovely summer ahead of you with many opportunites to work on your M.

Love to you. x

Gab, I agree with SS about trying to get the H to commit to the R and what he could do to make it better.

He is under the misconception that he is making the R work in his own wayward mind.

He probably congratulates himself everyday that he is providing for his family, he is home and not have left his children, he does the yard work. They don't get it that he is not meeting your ENs.

I would say work right now on what YOU could change and if he continues to see those changes it will shake him up to start making improvements in his own behavior.

As I have said you have an advantage because he is still home, the road is much more difficult when they are out of the house.

Will continue to pray for you.

Men don't want to talk about a relationship. They just want to have one. You left the bedroom. You must return.
These are the things that I see your husband doing to have a relationship with you from your own posts:
1. Sleeps in his marriage bed.
2. Lives at home with wife and children.
3. Provides for his family - including wife.
4. Plans vacations with family - including wife.
5. Would do anything for wife - according to wife.
6. Has remained in marriage for 22 years.
7. Has told wife that he is not happy and has told her why he is not happy.
8. Has given wife additional years to fix problems in marriage but has made it clear that there is a limit.

I know that I am oversimplifying your situation. We often complicate matters that are very simple. You are afraid of rejection from your husband but are rejecting him every night that you sleep somewhere other than your bed. He never left the bed - you did. Do you want him to come and beg you to come back after you have rejected him for years? Probably not going to happen. Control what is in your power to change - yourself.

Don't think that I don't understand the beating that your self-esteem takes when your husband has an affair. I get it. OW is 8 years younger than me and 13 years younger than my FWH. He was listed on dating websites looking for 22-35 year old women. He had also lied about his age and said that he was 33. Sorry, but I told him that if people were telling him that he looked 33 they were either drunk or sitting in the dark - my version of radical honesty. He laughed and admitted that it was pretty pathetic.

We are all afraid of something. What we do in spite of fear determines the quality of our lives. I really believe that. Don't let fear keep you from having the marriage that you want.

Hi SS,

I never looked at what qualities he brings to the marriage in the midst of our present circumstances, it took you an outsider looking in to line them up for me to see so for that i thank you.

My nephew is staying over tonight so he is going into the spare room my excuse for going back to our bed. I will let you know how i get on!

Gabzz, we are your cheering squad. Have your nephew stay the weekend.

Go Gabzz team, go gabzz team, you are in the playoffs.


Find a nice nightgown that you stopped wearing and march in there like it is Christmas and you are Santa....

Keep us posted since my life is not so exciting these days-- need to hear about someone else's excitement!

How did it go?