I think the big thing is Family Court Laws and protection orders are set up to enable this. In my state, all my exWW did was file an order of protection against me. It didn't matter whether the allegations were true or not but it still had the desired effect of getting me out of the house so she could move POSOM and his horses in. There are no repercussions against folks who blatently use the courts to get what they want.

Now, the exWW is thinks I'm evil because:
1. Fighting for the kids because I don't want them exposed to an alcoholic with anger management issues
2. Countered her Alimony petition with the fact she's cohabitating with POSOM
3. Will only give her what is required by law for child support
4. Refused to pay the mortgage when she moved POSOM in but did not charge him rent.


In my sitch, my exWW was sold by POSOM that I would have to pay for BOTH of them. NO WAY!

A wayward is a wayward regardless of the gender. During their A, they both (whether WH or WW) act, do, say, think, "feel" the same things. They each experience and display the same characteristics.

I agree that alot of WW's will not accept responsibility for their A's and take advantage of the BS as others have outlined above. But, in my case--I was told...You are moving out of state with me, you are quitting your job and leaving your hometown and your family or I will D you. I chose to do what my H demanded of me. The fact that we don't have small children made that much easier to do. But, my point is--he told me what he required of me and I complied.

So, IMO a wayward is a wayward is a wayward...

Hmmm.

I don't believe this....I believe they are equally to blame.

I agree the decks are stacked against men in many cases, so wouldn't that warrant putting up a BETTER FIGHT like you did?? If my opponent is well armed, do I collapse in tears and surrender or do I GET BETTER ARMS and prepare for battle??

I think you did a great job defending yourself and your children IN SPITE OF overwhelming opposition. But others go down without a shot fired. I see it daily! They see a little smoke and they rush to the field of battle with their white flag begging for mercy from a terrorist.

Agreed Mel. I've seen that before too. My own brother happens to be one of those. But, my H wasn't!!

DISCLAIMER: The following are my observations and opinions. They do not reflect any one particular situation, but more an overview of general traits ... and I'm sure that many of you will have experienced "exceptions" to these GENERAL observations.

In general, I've actually been modifying my opinion on this subject somewhat.

While I still view BH/WW situations as much worse (defined as: less likely to recover) than BW/WH scenarios, I am starting to re-evaluate where the "weak link" is located.

I view WH's as more "stupid" in their actions and WW's as more "evil" in their intent, but I'm starting to view the key to R as being women are just better/stronger at being a betrayed spouse, than men are.

It's just my observation, but BW's don't seem to have near the problem of confronting their WH and exposing their actions, while TOO MANY BH's just curl up into a ball, and become paralyzed by their fear of their WW's actions. BW's also seem to do a much better job of "setting the recovery bar high", than BH's do.

I would bet that if a study were done where recoveries were "scored" on their success, that BW/WH recoveries would score much higher than BH/WW situations ... and it appears from a quick review of the roll here at MB would validate that observation.

There are other obvious variables that come into play here also ... WH's don't seem to form the emotional attachments to their OW as WW do to OM ... because of this, I think we see more WW's having already left the M in their mind when they enter into an A, whereas most WH's are just looking for a little something on the side and aren't interested in leaving their W and family.

Another "add-on" observation about the evilness of WW's ... when was the last time you saw or read about a H making false incriminating allegations about their W's to obtain a tactical advantage in D proceedings??? Compare that to how many times we read right here on MB of the opposite occurring.

So I suppose, I see this as a two-headed monster, in that I view WW's as being worse (again defined as: less likely to recover) than WH's ... but I also view BW's as being better (based on the same definition in reverse: more likely to recover) than BH's.

There is a reason why 70% of all D's are initiated by the W ... and I see it as having two intertwined causes ... WW's have already left the M in their minds prior to entering into the A, and BH's are too weak to stand up for themselves or their families.

Mel you are so right. I have talked to a few guys who pretty much did this. And for the life of me why they do not fight harder in some cases I just don't know.

Now I must confess in my marriage I did live in fear of my wifes wrath when she got angry so I do understand that. I know it seems strange to some people but sometimes in a marriage the woman is constantly angry like in my marriage. When she gets that way there is hell to pay and you will cave in to whatever she wants to make the pain stop. It then becomes a cycle where she learns this works and he learns there is less pain if he gives in.

Now when this happens there are times when he will try and stand up for himself. When I did this I was threatened with divorce and she would take everything from me and I would have to pay her yada yada yada. It may sound strange to you but I believed that she would do this to me. And I was not sure but I thought a court system stacked against me just might let her do that. I was just unwilling to take that chance. She could go lower in the mud than I could and some women seem to understand this better than men

Now in my case I truly wanted my wife to be happy. My life revolved around it and I did not care about my happiness. The change in me occured when I found out about her affair. I would not have divorced her unless she had sex with another guy and so that is when I snapped if you will and got a spine. I was a different man at that point and she knew it and when I had her served I could see by the look in her eyes she never thought I had the balls to do it. She also found out that I was willing to do whatever I had to regarding the divorce and she started to be a human being to me again. I will always regret being a doormat for all of those years. If I would have stood up and not taken it who knows she might not have become the person she did. I know I had a role in it.

A lot of us men do fear our wives because they can hurt us like no other person on this earth. Men live in fear and many just give her what she wants and lose everything because they just live in fear of them. As an example I have a brother who's wife is cheating on him. He has 4 kids 3 girls and 1 boy. He could not find a decent job so he had to find one. I just happened to do a search for him and found an obscure posting on the web for a perfect job for him. The funny part was I did a national search and the job was in a town where I lived and sent him the details. He got the job but his wife said she was keeping the kids and staying in warm Florida.

My brother was living with me so he could save some money. He was making about 80k in a area where that is a good salary and I did not charge him rent. He told me his wife was cheating on him and he was sending all of his paycheck to her in Florida. I had to tell my brother to find another place to stay because even though I love him I am not going to pay for her affair. If he has to pay rent and everything else that will mean less money for her affair. He will not do anything though because she will limit access to his kids. So he sends her his paycheck and nothing changes.

Now for the life of me I cannot imagine a woman leaving the home like he has and sending all her money back to her husband so he can cheat on her just so she can see her kids once in a while. Yet my brother does this very thing. I just don't know why us men do the things we do but you are right. It must be in our DNA or something.

I think the court system in the USA has made it very difficult for men. And I think many of them just give up because it is stacked against them. My mom cheated and left and put my poor dad thru hell. He was such a good decent guy to this day I know she put him in the ground before his time god rest his soul. I have seen what a WW was capable of when I saw what she tried to do to him. I guess that is the only positive thing she left me with. A desire to not let my XW take everything I worked for and hand it over to another guy.

Anyway I don't know if that answers your question but I agree with you some men just seem so devistated they give up. Or they are lied to by being told she needs space and well you know what happens then.

I agree, one has to fight. But, in assessing your case, you need to understand the odds of winning may be very long and the expense great. So, if you have limited assets and your Lawyer is advising you that your chance of prevailing is very slim, it may be best to save your money and use it in other ways to support your kids and yourself.
It's fine to fight when you have a chance. But, since infidelity is a non issue re custody in mny states, you may be wasting your money.
I had no chance, according to my lawyer to split custody. So, I have used my $$ to set up a place where my kids can come be with me when they are old enough to choose. I am vigilant about their welfare and see them as much as I can.
I fought and won on the alimony issue and some other financial issues. But, custody was a loser.

I think cheaters are cheaters and it's all the same. Let me be very clear on that. I don't think women should be allowed to get the kids, house, etc. or any of that.

But, speaking as a FWW and a BS, I think that in cases of infidelity, society treats women more harshly. (I don't mean the court systems, just society's view on women that cheat)

Maybe it's like someone else said, maybe it's the assumption that women will do anything to protect the nest and men just normally sow wild oats. Boys will be boys kind of thing. And historically girls were supposed to stay pure before and during marriage and this wasn't really expected of the men.

Also, consider the male ego. I think this has played a big part in my own personal M problems. He'll never forgive me for my A, but justifies his own multiple A's. He's always thought cheating was the worse thing ever, but didn't think bad of his friends that cheated, and laughed when his boss had a longterm "mistress". But he did think bad of the women involved. Right now his SIL is accusing his Brother of cheating, and he hopes that his brother is cheating, because the SIL is crazy, and brother needs some relief.

Maybe it's just my upbringing and my part of the country. We're kinda behind the times But, it's sort of like a classic women's rights double standard kind of thing.

I totally agree with you and that was my point when i said is it the "boys will be boys" way of thinking........

I watch a good friend spend $25K on lawyers, and court to save his kids from a horrible excuse for a mother. A mother who (at first) abanndoned her kids for OM, until WW and OM realized those kids where their meal ticket.

The courts gave them back to "Mom". So he fought, lost, and now she gets the house, 5K a month and still manages to waste the kids college funds, all thanks to the POS courst system! So arming yourself often means bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Another friends WW abanandoned her BH and their kids (1400 miles). He was very hurt, but also lucky. I convinced him to draw up and serve the D papers before she changes her mind. She signed them uncontested forfeiting kids, pention, home, ect. 18 Months later she "realized" just how blinding her love for OM was! She's now begging to come home.

In my state it actually usually boils down to who files FIRST.

I had one brother who was a great husband and father and his xWW cheated on him numerous times but he loved her and was trying to save their M, she finally decided to D after the last OM she was with and she filed and my brother got s c r e w e d.

However my other brother who cheated on his W and was a horrible husband and father, when the W left (because she caught him cheating yet again), he filed for D first and his exW was the one that got s c r e w e d.

You know what? Sometimes they lose. But more often I see them WINNING. I can think of numerous men on this forum who have PRIMARY custody of their children because they got a good attorney and they fought. They ALL were CONVINCED going in that they would lose. But they WON. And their kids are with THEM, being raised by them in their own homes.

They are certain to lose if they never try!

And that is the equivalent to abandoning one's children to an unfit wayward wife because of COST. That is INEXCUSABLE. I have no damn respect for that. How can a father tell his kid that he didn't fight for him because it was too expensive? That is no justification to just GIVE UP. The well being of ones child is worth the cost.

It pisses me off to see a man surrender his own children before he ever gets to the battle field. Makes me want to get out my 2x4!

First. lawyers do not work for free. One cannot spend what one does not have.
Second, it is foolish to fight with merely infidelity as the only arrow in your quiver. If one has other stuff, like abuse or neglect, that is a different story. Here in liberaland, Minnesota, as wel as manyother places, you'll get laughed out of court as a working dad trying to get custody of your kids from a SAHM that cheated on that basis , alone.
So, are you doing your kids a favor , depleting the college funds whan you have no chance.
My lawyer is a law school classmate who is highly respected in her field. She wrote the treatise on Family Law in our jurisdiction. It would have been foolish to ignore her advice on this.
If you expect to win custody from a SAHM, you better have a lot more than just infidelity as your angle.

Agreed but women are just better in general period.


When I read stories of BHs being accused of being violent or child molestors I do find that evil. H's FOW thought accused her H of having a violent temper and treated the man like a paycheck. If a woman did beat up her H, most are prone not to believe it simply because she is a woman.

I would point out that we have many fathers on this forum who did fight for their kids and won. From SAHM's too. College funds can always be replaced. Money can always be replaced. But a child's safety and well being CANNOT. Their best interest has to always be the first consideration.

A WW may not be "worse" than a WH but I do admit it bothers me a little more when a woman cheats in some cases. I probably have higher expectations of women in general because I am one. I don't mean that in a bad way or that I don't expect much from men. I don't understand any parent walking away from their children, but I REALLY don't understand a mother walking away from their children even more. I know there are some woman that just aren't maternal at all, but I can't identify with a woman who could carry her babies for nine months, raise them for x years and then just walk away from them because she's unhappy or wants OM that bad. It does not compute. You don't typical hear dead beat moms vs dead beat dads.

Plus I do think woman are more evil than men. LOL

p.s. Mortarman, another BH who won custody of his kids from a SAHM recommends a book on this that has been very helpful to many BH's here. I will see if I can find the name of it.

ML, I agree giving up or rolling over is pathetic. But the fact in my state is, 50/50 custody unless you (both) agree otherwise. A claim of infidelity, has little to no bearing, the court is numb to it.

The only real room for a fight is showing proof of neglect, ect.. So short of fabricating lies, spending a fortune is worthless. In some ways thats is good... The size or your checkbook should not determine custody.

God forbid your military (man or woman).

**EDIT** I was not referring to any type of Child Abuse or Neglect in the home. That a totally different topic.

I agree each state is different, however, that is not an excuse to lie down and die. It is a call to action to get the most favorable settlement POSSIBLE, rather than just agreeing everything put forth by the WS. Even in states where the norm is 50/50 there is no reason the father can't fight for more along with possession of the childrens home. We have had many BSs even get a clause in separation/divorce papers that the children not be exposed to adultery partners or boyfriends/girlfriends. So there is a lot that can be done.

The surest way to lose, though, is to never try anything.

What these men do by rolling over like this is they TRAIN their wives to abuse them for years to come in the court system. So agreeing to a poor settlement, rather than fighting for the best he can get, just INVITES his W to drag him back into court year after year milking him dry for years to come. And why not, since it pays off?

And the tragic thing is that an attorney wants to come to an AMICABLE agreement and is reluctant to upset the apple cart. This is why it is up to the BH to research the law in his state, join fathers rights groups, and fight for the best possible settlement. But most men don't do that, they hand it all over, believing that being amicable will help them.