Thank God me and my husband learned NOT to fight about things but rather to discuss them.

Yeah, I pretty much envy you. You are actually kind of my mentor when it comes to speaking my mind, lol. And D18 and I had this same discussion today, that it's better that she speaks her mind, even if a lot of the kids don't know what to make of it - plus it makes it hard to find a guy who will put up with her, er, I mean who is self-assured enough that he likes it.

I had to work hard for 10 years to make good communication and still need to focus on that to keep it this way. I am gentler speaking my mind with my husband than i sound on this board. I do not want to be abrasive with my husband at all...

What do you do when, you are sitting here minding your own business (i.e., trying to work) and all of a sudden, upstairs, you hear your spouse just start slamming things around and swearing? You go upstairs and ask what's wrong and you hear:

EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING IS F_NG WRONG! I'M SICK OF IT ALL!

So you ask--trying to be ever the helpful marriage builder...

Did something just happen in this moment to cause this? Or is it something else?

And he says: NOTHING HAPPENED. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS.

So you say: (remember, he's still slamming things around and swearing...). Is there something you could think of/do you want to brainstorm ways you could maybe shake things up? Do something new?

And he says: A JOB WOULD BE NICE. A F---KNG CAREER WOULD BE NICE. A FRIEND WOULD BE NICE. A LIFE WOULD BE NICE. I HATE THIS LIFE. I HATE THIS HOUSE. I HATE LIVING HERE. I HATE EVERYTHING.

And he goes into the bathroom and SLAMS the door.

Ok, I can take a hint. Back downstairs to my basement office go I.

Now here's my whine. I occasionally have days like this. And as soon as I start whining about it he will cut me off with something like:

"Is anything EVER good or is it just all bad, as usual?"

"When you say that, it makes me feel guilty because I dont't have a full time job".

"You've complained about XYZ now 3 times. I'm sick of hearing about it."

Or some variation thereof.

And my favorite. If I get frustrated and yell or throw something.

SETTLE YOURSELF DOWN!

OOPS, I think I hit "submit" too soon.

This is not a boundary issue. If I say "please don't yell" or something similar, I am accused of escalating or trying to pick a fight. I just removed myself from the situation today and deducted another 3000 pts from the love bank--already seriously in the red.

You tell your spouse, "I left a cup of coffee for you on the counter; I'll call you at lunchtime, I hope you feel better." You say a prayer for them, and you take your laptop to the McDonald's wifi hot spot and get back to work.

*Light bulb moment here* Thanks Hold. The "do nothing" part was what I failed to accept in part because I felt so "needy" when negotiations and compromises aren't pursue.

For me, it is when my top needs aren't being met, I end up doing LBs (via passive-aggressive behaviors, that weren't obvious to me in the past because it was a habit that I needed to stop).

I *was* doing nothing, but in the terms of disengaging and withdrawing, and brooding in my own self-created pity party. Even when I do actively pursue actions that improve myself (be it exercising, cooking healthier meals, helping kids homework, and house chores; they were for the most part actions that distance myself from the wife.

Even when I do interact with the wife by communicating, showing affections (non-sexual), or being a recreational companion--my lack of self-worth from my perceived lack of sex, created my neediness for sex.

I basically created my dependence for sex with her to validate my worth; worse part of it, she provided "bad sex" which I settled for.

So until I can handle the "do nothing" (in this case, sex moratorium), I was not capable to POJA sex / SF in my marriage. I think I get that part now.

He's probably already ashamed and embarassed. Maybe you can talk to him at a calm time and ask him what he'd like you to do at these times. It's okay if he wants some time in the house alone.

Good advice. Can't do a public wi-fi though because I need to be on the phone. However, I escaped back here to my basement office.


His biggest complaint is that he's always alone. No friends, withdrawn wife, disinterested kids, etc. In fact, I'm usually in my office on Mondays but am working from home today because I had to go to traffic court this AM and it was a 2 hour drive each way (4 hours total). So I was gone all morning. When I got home, I got a quick and terse "hi"--a complaint about something to do with UI,which I sat down and discussed with him-- and then I headed to my computer and that was that until the outburst.

Like I said, the love bank is getting drained quickly. I'm so snitty right now, the LAST thing I want to do is say a prayer for him.

OH, I hope your day gets better. Or, even better, I hope you make your day better. I would think it's even harder than normal to be happy with a snitty wife. For your sake, your kids', your family, your marriage, your H, how would you feel about choosing a different attitude for today? "I do choose for 12 hours what would appall me if I had to keep it up for a lifetime." We had a friend over on InRecovery, AmIOk, who said that when she was too angry with her H to Plan A him, but not ready to move to Plan B, that Steve asked her to Plan A the kids. How would you feel about doing that?

How about adding in this 180: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000476;p=0 It was *really* helpful to me when the hostility was getting to me and distorting my perspective.

OH, think about it just a minute. If you read back your posts since last weekend, it's like, how horrible that this man is doing this to me, that I must be exposed to this. No, hon, this is your choice, today, until you plan a different one. No one can make you miserable, that is your choice, and you can make a different one. I hope you make a different one, and choose to be happy today. What a triumph that will be, OH, to be happy when it is the most difficult like this. (((OH)))

Plan Aing the kids sounds like a good idea. It's easy for me to do--easier than Plan Aing the spouse, that's for sure! And even if I'm upset and annoyed at the things they do, it's always been easy for me to separate their actions from them.

I understand what you say about choices, EO, but I can't apply it to myself. I feel trapped. Trapped in this life, trapped in this marriage that I do not want and feeling hopeless that I can help evolve it into a marriage that I do want. I let him suck the happiness right out of me and I shouldn't do that. But I'm so frustrated at being stuck--I often think about just picking up and leaving him here with the kids. I'm not trying to abandon the kids but often, I feel SO badly, that giving up day-to-day access to them seems preferable over remaining in this living he//.

How are you trapped? What about POJAing him leaving? From what I understand, getting him involuntarily out of the house is harder, but what about talking to a family law attorney to find out what options you have? Maybe he would agree to a separation if you agree to continue keeping him on your health insurance and he would have generous visitation with the kids? Maybe you can $weeten the deal?

Do you have to experience it as a living nightmare? I totally remember feeling that way at the time, too, but when I look back there was a lot of joy there, too, that I wasn't experiencing because I was giving my focus to the few things that were not going well. Have you read that 180 list yet?

I am researching family law attorneys as we speak. I don't have the money, but am hoping to find someone to at least meet with me for a consult. Yes, having him OUT of the house at this point--even if we don't ultimately divorce--would be a huge stress reliever.

OH, your H sounds like mine, he complains about being left alone. But my H doesn't mean he wants me there to talk and interact with him, he means like be in the house, like in the same room, but not demanding stuff from him, more letting him be. I really think the 180 would help alleviate his anger with you, and your frustration with him. And I think that it would help you manage your expectations, so you could really approach him as an equal. What do you think, is this something you would be enthusiastic about trying?

EO, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Is the 180 a MB concept I'm not yet familiar with (sorry for the bad grammar there). I remember reading about it but not quite getting where it fit in the scheme of things.

BTW, speaking of plan Aing the kids--DS15 came home and announced he is getting placed in Honors math next year. He's in Honors History and science and wants to step down a notch in science next year (honors Physics is very hard--he saw his older brother lose about 10 years off the end of his life over it!) and he's not been challenged enough in regular math. Our regular college-level courses at the high school are very challenging when I compare them with honors in other schools but I hate for him to be bored.

He needed to maintain an "A" average to get into honors math for next year so I'm glad he made his goal. This kid is so much like his Dad in so many ways that I hope he can retain this goal setting/achieving attribute. His father doesn't do so well in this area.

It's suggested sometimes on GQII to help folks do a more effective Plan A, without LBing in their extreme frustration.

*snort* lol, that was funny!

D18's boyfriend told me that he took physics last year just for fun (he wants to be a filmmaker)...although I actually think that's pretty cool; I picked up a physics for dummies book about 10 years ago, just because I want to learn it.

I'm always telling D18 how I waited til the end of my college to take chemistry cos I thought it would be hard, and once I took it I fell in love with it! But I wasn't about to chuck the 110+ class hours I'd already taken toward my degree, just to change plans. When we went to the museum yesterday, I steered her into the chemistry section, and she loved it! *silent cheer*

I tell you what, NASA has a standing invitation to hire anyone with a science, math, or engineering degree; they ALWAYS need more of them. (Plus it's an amazing place to work)

Ooops. Must have missed that link the first time around. I have read that and I think I am doing a lot of plan 180 but need to grab a better hold on my temper and anger. I got a chuckle out of the 'don't call'. H is STILL upset that he called me way more often than I called him while he was away. I don't think it warrants any kind of explanation from me so I just let the comments go. But he makes at least one comment a day about it.

There's also a great article on forgiveness here. This is a huge wedge between us. I can NOT get past his EA--he thinks I should be over it already. But other than the remorse I saw in the first few months, I've seen only defensiveness and anger.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

OH, if you're going to get anywhere you're going to have to address both of these issues. What about a mediator of some sort so you can talk about it in a healthy way? He's hung up on you not calling because you have him scared that you don't want/need him any more (also the reason for the anger today, no doubt); maybe you could tell him that it seems that way but that you want to assure him that if he were to start working on the R with you, you'd much rather keep the marriage.

Does he know you think that he showed no remorse for the EA, and does he know that it may drive you away from him?

But that's the problem. I can't see how he is thinking/scared about me not wanting or needing him anymore. He's sure putting up a good front and fooling me if this is the way he really feels. I do bring it up way too much--got to stop that. Last night I once again brought it up and he said that if I keep bringing it up, it's going to happen (as in he's making a threat? I think?) And then he said 'you must WANT it to happen because you keep bringing it up.

I'm not sure how it's behind his anger of today. It just came out of nowhere.

He knows how I feel about the things I outlined in the letter and I guess he's addressed some of them---sort of--he's not done anything about the alcohol, the PT job is not what I believed it to be at first and discussing the EA is fruitless. And I kick myself every time I allow myself to go there. Last night I told him I had to go to traffic court today. My bad--I got this ticket back in Dec but was afraid he'd fly off the handle about it so I put off telling him. I asked for a court date and that was today. And I still kept putting off telling him. So I told him last night and he said that he's not mad about the ticket, he's mad I never told him. Ok, I understand this. And he's right. I was also trying to get him to see how I got myself into this pickle and maybe talk about why I'm so avoidant about his AOs that I won't tell him things like this. But he shut me down with 'this conversation is over, I don't want to talk about it anymore'. So that was that.

At one point he said "wives don't do this type of thing to their husbands--keep secrets from them". You know I couldn't let that one go and yes, I brought up the affair. And escalated the fight. ::