I am SO glad I found this Web site! Just reading it has helped me immensely, but I still need someone to talk with...

We've been married 24 years, together for 25. He's 67, I'm 60.

When we first were married, our lives revolved around bowling (changed to protect the guilty) and we bowled 3-4 times a week. We were both pretty good. Then I got carpal tunnel and stopped. He wanted to give one more year to competition and I encouraged that, but refused to go with him (my very bad) because it hurt me so much emotionally to quit. I told him that. Now I find out that he has never forgiven me for not going and supporting him.

We got involved in another hobby after that and were together for it. After about 6 years I lost interest and again (my very bad) stopped. I was starting a business and giving all of my time to that. He never said much, so I thought he understood.

In the meantime, I sensed a distance in him, when I asked if something was bothering him he said everything was fine.

Last Fall, it all came undone. He wanted to talk and dumped the last 4 years on me. His major complaints:
I read all the time (true, however he can't leave the TV on one station for an entire program. I can't watch TV that way, and he knows it)
Don't give him any attention (also true to the extent that when he starts on the 3rd or 4th rendition of something, I get bored and tune him out)
My overweight has caused him to lose sexual desire for me (I've lost 39 pounds since then, and will continue to lose)
Because of my sleep apnea, I've been sleeping in another room so as not to bother him (I've moved back into our bedroom)
He feels like he's living alone (Now that I'm trying to spend more time with him, I'm intruding)
I have no consideration for his feelings - I do what I want (I have always asked his opinion when I thought it was something important to him, I will now ask about EVERYTHING)

In Nov. 08, we had another talk and he's not seeing any measurable progress. I still read too much. When I said that I felt he had a GF, he did not respond. I told him that there has to be a way to save our marriage and he responded that he's just tired of the whole situation.

2/09/09: He has now determined that this has been going on for the past 7 years. He still feels like he's living alone, and he's very happy to go scouting and hunting predators to shoot. In this area, there's a hundreds of miles to cover. He's gone from dawn to dark and enjoys being alone that way. (He's in full-on Taker mode.)

Later that night he rolled over, hugged me and said "Oh God, you can't believe how much I love you Marcella." (I've been suspicious of Marcella all along.) When I said that my name wasn't Marcella, he said that my name was whatever he wanted it to be that night. When I mentioned this the next day, he said that he was just teasing. I said that it wasn't funny. I should also have said how very cruel it was to me in my fragile emotional state. He attempted to make love to me that night (on BP meds, which cause impotence.) I've talked to him about getting something for that, but he's afraid of the 4 hour erection.

3/31: 1:09 pm - he called her cell (1 min)
3/31: 1:10 pm - called her cell again (2 min)
3/31: 1:19 pm - she called back (1 min)
4/01: 8:38 pm - called her cell (2 min)

4/05: Met him at bowling club, I'm going to start that again. He seemed fairly happy to see me, but not really excited.
4/07: 9:51 pm - called her call (1 min)(he was at home!)
4/08: I went to the local bar where he hangs out - the BAR. Marcella was there and I asked her to please stay away from him. She said they are just friends, but she would stay away.
4/08: 6:40 pm - he called her cell (1 min)
4/08: 6:41 pm - she called back (1 min)
4/08: 6:52 pm - he called her cell (2 min)

04/10: 5:30 pm - called me and said he was about 45 min away. Five min later I saw him pull into her driveway. He thinks he saw me and attempted to follow to verify, but I evaded. He didn't say anything about it later and neither did I.
04/10: 5:37 pm - called me and asked if I was still out. I said yes, I'm at the other end of town. He asked me to stop at Mac's and get him a couple of cheeseburgers. I did that. With my devious mind, I also thought of getting a couple more and putting them on the hood of his truck in her driveway. Unfortunately, she lives in a fairly isolated house on a dead end street. And it was still daylight. (I need to check this out more)
Later, when we were talking, he said that he loves me but is no longer in love with me. I've told him that divorce is not an option; that we will find a way to fix our marriage.

4/12: Met him at bowling club and did 2 rounds together, went to the BAR afterward. I left there at 4:47 pm to go home and he was going out scouting until dark.
At 4:50 pm, he called her cell (1 min)
About 8:15, he called me and asked me to meet him at the Do Drop Inn, another bar. I did and we had a good general conversation. He didn't make much eye contact with me.

4/13: Called me about 7:30 pm and asked to me to meet again at the Do Drop. I did, more general conversation, a little more eye contact.

4/14: 3:53 pm He called her cell (2 min)
4/14: 5:18 pm He called her cell again (1 min)
Called me at approx 8:00 and asked me to meet at Do Drop again. I am giving more attention and admiration. We talked about various things and he made a lot more eye contact with me.

4/15: I started wearing contacts again - I do look better and younger without glasses. Called me at 8:05 pm, said he was going to stop at two bars, maybe 3, then come home. He cuddled me most of the night.

4/16: He checked in about 12:30 pm. Around 7, I called him to see if he was close enough to home to meet for tacos. He wasn't.

Today, 4/17 - she hasn't called his cell since 4/08, 10 days. I think she's doing the no contact thing with him. God, I hope so.

I've started recreational companionship with him again, and paying more attention and more admiration. In a few days I will try to get him to fill out the EN questionnaire.

I would dearly love to expose them, however neither works. I don't know if she has family around here, we only have my parents and my sister. The OP is married; her H is a long distance truck driver, I will try to find out when he will be back. The only place I could expose them would be at the BAR, and I'm not sure how effective that would be. Although it is a close group.

I'm thinking of asking her to meet me this afternoon to talk more. I will again ask her to stay away and give our 25 years a chance. Maybe if she knows more about us and MY side of the story, she will cooperate.

I just feel so much rage that he never made a serious attempt to talk to me about all this. He says he didn't want to hurt my feelings - like this hurts any less!

Your thoughts, suggestions and opinions are truly appreciated!

Talking to the OW very rarely helps. Honestly, she isn't interested in you or your pain or your marriage. An affair is a very, very selfish act and all both parties are thinking of is themselves.

Expose.
Read here and learn all that you can.

I'm sorry that you find yourself here, LF.

Sorry you are here. You might consider really getting serious about snooping by:

- putting a voice activated recorder in his car
- GPS in his car
- keylogging the computer, find his passwords, e-mails, messages, etc.
- sounds like you have access to his phone records...good!

Keep snooping and gathering information. That information will be vital to protecting your marriage. Snoop!

Verve, thank you for your thoughts! I'm still thinking about whether to contact the OW.

DNU1, thank you too! He doesn't have a computer, so that simplifies things, I think. I'm seriously considering paying for the GPS activation on his cell. I need to find out more about that.

Some days I know that we'll get through this and have a better, stronger marriage. Others, I just want to give up and die. Those days are fewer now that I've found this site. It's been so very helpful to me to know that I'm not alone.

Don't contact the OW. It is a complete waste of time. She doesn't care about you at all.

Better to get a GPS on his cell and expose the affair to everyone.

Hang in there leapfroggy! There is a TON of support here on this site. And a lot of wisdom!

Be strong...

All of us here on this site have felt that way, LF, so please know that you are not alone and we want to be here for you and help you. This forum and some of the people on it have been the glue that held me together at times. You will find some amazing and caring people here who are knowledgeable and helpful.


In regards to the A; Expose, expose, expose. Find out all that you can. GPS is good, too.

Good luck!

Believer - thank you. As soon as I find out how to download the sw to his cell, I'll be putting a gps on it.

DNU1 and Verve - your support, and that of everyone else, is priceless!

It's now been 9 days since my H and the OW have had any cell contact - I'm hoping she did as I asked and is staying away from him. Woo-Woo! Although I now think she's a *itch, she was a pretty nice person before that, and we could have become friends.

I received the books yesterday ( I think I ordered all of them). Any suggestions on which to read first? I'm thinking HNHN would be best, since I obviously failed in the EN department.

leapfroggy, what is your gut telling you? Does your gut tell you there is contact but you can't find any evidence? What does your H's behavior tell you. I ask cuz often the waywards go further underground once discovered. I still would put the recorder in his vehicle.

Hi Faithful,

My gut is telling me that it's probably over. He came home very early yesterday not feeling well, and is still very tired today. I'm thinking that he's having a depression because of the NC.

He doesn't know that I know about the A. I check Verizon online everyday to see who he talked to the previous day, and there has been no phone contact on their cells for 9 days. He thinks that deleting a made or received call erases all trace of it. HA!
He also doesn't know how to check his voice mail, so I do that and delete it while he's in the shower.

A recorder would be very difficult to maintain without his finding out about it. I have thought about it, but the time necessary to pull it, monitor and replace just isn't there when I wouldn't get caught. I need to find out more about activating the gps on his phone.

I am so thankful I found this site and the wonderful people here!

Hi Leapfroggy,

Welcome to the MB site.

Read Surviving an Affair first, then HNHN, and then Lovebusters.
Once this is better sorted out, WH and yourself should consider the online seminar.
This will help secure and restore the love in your M.

Onward ....

You need to confront WH about this A, right now he thinks he has gotten away with having a secret friend, a secret life. WH needs to understand that this in not acceptable to you in your M with him.
WH has been to OW house, has called OW and vice versa.

If Marcella frequents the bars where WH is, unless you are with him whenever he is in these places, you do not know that there has been NC.

Why is WH in these bars so much, and without you?

To maintain NC, WH cannot go to these places anymore.

You also need to expose. Find OWH and tell him. Does OW have children? If yes, tell them, tell her whole family that she is having an A with your H, and that you want to save your M.
Tell your family. Do you have children? If yes, tell them too.
WH good buddies from the bar .... tell them too. Do not do this out of spite, tell them that you need their support to rebuild your M. Tell them as long as you know that they will support your M, and may have influence over WH to stop A.

Considering your ages and length of M, is this a second M for the two of you?

Activating the GPS on WH phone, I tried this and it rang the phone to alert that a GPS track was initiated. Even if you turn the volume down, it is stored in the incoming calls folder.
Your phone may be different, don't know.
I have read it suggested to buy a pay as you go phone and use that one as the GPS phone, just hide it in the car.

Also,

You have already started Plan A, the carrot part. This is the part that makes you and the M more attractive than the OW.

The second part of Plan A, which is just as important, is the part that fights the A. It's called the stick part.

Read it again, and again and again. Follow every bit of it. Both parts work together, not just the parts that you want to follow.

The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

Good points, Vittoria!

I will be seeing some of his friends today, and I WILL ask them for their support.

WH goes to the bars when he is through with being in the field. He has been inviting me to join him, which is a good sign. I go, without hesitation.

The OW's H is a long distance trucker, when he returns I will tell him about the A. I don't think OW has family around here or kids. As to exposing to my parents, I'm not ready to do that to WH yet. They have a very high opinion of him and I can't bring myself to destroy it. Although I will if I have to. I'm going to tell my sister tomorrow.

I do think, and feel strongly, that things are looking better between us. I met him yesterday at the bar, and we spent about 4 hours there before coming home. Once home, I watched a race with him and we talked about that and bowling. I did not touch my book. An hour or so after we went to bed, he rolled over and cuddled me for a long time. He also said that he loves me. I could feel that that is true. We're talking more, and he's making very good eye contact with me, and actually looking at me while we talk.

WH has been coming home earlier, and leaving later in the morning. There has been NC by phone, and in-person would have to be arranged by phone. I'm going to make sure his best friend is not making calls for him, but I don't think so.

Well, I'm off to read about Plan A again (although I loved your use of words in explaining it), and then I'm going to WalMart to see about a gps phone for hiding in his car.

Thank you for caring, Vittoria! This site and the wonderful, sharing people here have saved my sanity!

As you start your Plan A be very careful not to have any expectations at all. Otherwise you might get discouraged. Men's top needs are usually sex and admiration. Try to think of something to admire about him.

You are so right about not having any expectations, Believer. Mine were trampled on yesterday.

I met WH at the bowling place, and we had a fairly good time. Afterward, we went to the BAR. Some of his friends were sitting at the bar, while we sat at a table. It was rather uncomfortable and I kept thinking I should just go home. Some other friends came in later and it got somewhat better, but not much. I've should just gone home.

Last night we talked more. He is feeling overwhelmed and suffocated by my constant presence. Last week when he invited me to meet at one of the bars, I thought we were making some small progress. Now he tells me it was just part of letting me know what he was doing and where he was.

WH said he has thought of moving out for awhile. While he still loves me, he is not IN love with me anymore. He is in full-on Taker mode.

About 10 years ago, I had a friendship that was only a friendship, and WH caught me meeting the friend on the sly to return some books. Since then, he refuses to believe that it was no more than friendship and keeps demanding to know the truth. He does not believe the truth when I tell it. He also tells me that a mutual friend (?) said I came on to him. WH won't name this mutual (friend?). I told WH that having an affair with a friend of his would be SO disrespectful of him, that I would never do that. In the meantime, I have no idea who he's talking about.

WH is unable to get beyond the past - he can only think of his grievances and unhappiness. I suggested that he try to think of the positives of our marriage and he won't do that. He just keeps brooding and brooding, and can't let go.

As a start to negotiations, I am going to offer the following:

Offer of Negotiation

In order to prevent WH from having feelings of being overwhelmed and cramped, I, BS, will only go to the bowling place for Sunday practice and Wednesday night League.

I, BS, will go to the BAR for a brief time on Sunday afternoons after practice, and for a brief time on Wednesday evenings after League.

I, BS, will not invite myself to meet WH at different places. I will wait for WH to invite me.

I, BS, will continue to give WH my love and support, and endeavor not to stifle him.

Your suggestions and comments are truly appreciated, everyone!

PS - When we went to bed last night, he wanted to make love, and was again unable to perform due to BP meds. I do my darnest to help him with that.

I don't know, sounds like the affair is still going on. You need to do some spying.

The two of you are married, and now is not the time to give him "space".

Does he have a problem with alcohol?

Yes, he does have a problem with alcohol. It's been an on and off thing since I've known him. He's drinking now to try and numb his feelings, but it's not working very well...

I found out yesterday that the OW is on probation and not allowed in bars. I do think the affair is over, there hasn't been any phone contacts in almost two weeks. But I will keep spying! I told him last night that I knew he had been to her house in the last two weeks, and that there had been numerous calls to/from her cell. He said that's because her H is interested in buying WH's tools. You sure can talk a lot about that in one or two minutes! As If!

I talked to some of the friends of WH yesterday, and they are supportive of me. They are going to discourage any inappropriate behavior.

I know this isn't the time to give him space, Believer, but he's feeling suffocated and resentful of my intrusion into his life. He just wants to be alone; says he's gotten used to it and enjoys it.

you need a voice activated recorder in his vehicle. try under a back seat where you can wedge it so as not to go sliding out. or wedge it between passenger seat and console.

Well, I think the bovine manure is going to hit the air circulating device.

WH's best friend called him a few minutes ago and told him who I had talked to yesterday. WH is not happy about me blabbing his A all over town, and said he will probably never go to the BAR again. I told him I did not talk to everybody in town, I just told some of his friends that he was in a relationship with Marcella that was closer than I liked, and I needed their support in saving my marriage. He had no response to that other than to go off to another bar for awhile. So, when, or if, he comes home tonight we'll see what happens.