Totally agree.

And BTW ...

I like it when Hubby opens the car door, any door for that matter for me, and I like it when he insists on walking on the outside of the sidewalk.

I feel protected and respected by him ... as a wife/woman should feel.

That is the whole premise. Women do challenge men to see how far they can go. Some challenge a lot..some little, some moderate, but still challenge. Women want boundaries within reason. They want to know what their man will and will not put up with. Men think that if we give you what you want that will make you happy..that's not always the case.

Not exactly.
We women want to know our man thinks we are worth fighting for - and that might include stopping us from destructive behaviors. The boundaries are out of love and protection, not simply out of authority.

agreed, but you don't want the man to be a pushover either

I was simply answering a question asked by Mrs W.

I do not wish to discuss it on you original thread because i feel the same way about that thread that i do this one which is "women bashing" and it bothers me.

NOT my man !!!!!!!

Yup.

I have boundaries for myself.

If H had boundaries for me, I would see this as controlling.

Boundary..If we have a joint account..let me know when you are taking money out so I can be in sync
Controlling..you cannot take out any money unless I say so

There is a difference.

Right! That's perfectly alright. I mean you want to know if your hubby wants to buy a $250 golf club (I've been hitting Foxtrot books a bit hard lately) so that you know to put that in the checkbook or wherever.

So that later you will know not to try and pay the mortgage from that account, etc.

Ok, I just have to say a few things about this topic.

One I agree with the initial primis. But, I would like to take it a bit further than anyone has so far.

I have two sons, both in their 20's. My youngest 22 came home from school one day. He was in the 6th grade, perhaps 5th grade and he was sort of down. My W asked him what the problem was. His response to her blew her away and me as well. He announced that he wished he was a woman. My wife asked him why is that? He said that his teacher had been talking about how bad the world was and how it was all men's fault. How men were not good husbands, not good at business, and certainly not good at running things. Apparently, she asked the class its thoughts and all of the girls seemed to chime in with their take on the world.

Now what a girl in the 6th or 5th grade knows about the world is hard for me to imagine, but apparently they had been bombarded with the usual talk about men that they felt free to sp0ut it. So here sits a boy, thinking the he is doomed to be thought of as the cause of the world's ills and that he has no hope of being a good person because he is a guy. I know it was illogical. He and I had a long father son chat about it.

But, you couple this sort of the thing with the constant admonition that boys behave like the girls do in school, with the removeal or PE and recess which is where boys burn off energy, with the constant bombardment via TV that boys are buffoons at best, and the very clear message that "fighting" is not allowed. And you have boys that are NOT boys, you just have poor imitations of girls.

I will go further, my older son was attacked in the 7th grade by about 6 boys, he fought back. He got suspended for just as long as they did. The message... you don't fight, even when attacked. I told him to hunt them down one at a time when they were alone and have a "word" with them explaining what he would do to them individually the next time any of them messed with him. That seemed have done the trick. He did eventually have to take on several of them however.

Mel says men should fight. I agree but all social training is now geared for men to not fight. Plus the word on the street if anything goes to court, the guy will lose. Further, men are trained and by nature geared to sacrifice for the family so if a W asks a man to leave his inclination is to do so. I agree it is wrong and I along with many people here especially Mel have strongly encouraged them to stay but society's expectations are in fact different.

I will not say men are "feminized", but I will say they are very "confused". Many women here want them to stand up and lead them, but they want it done with "feelings" with care that the women appreciate, and view things from their point of view. Not an easy thing. It is my opinion that most younger men today don't really know what to do. Their instincts are at conflict with what society is training them to do and be and this training (if my sons experience is any measure) is starting far earlier than most realize.

Just some thoughts on the original topic here.

JL

Exactly !

Agree that there is a difference between the two.

I don't see the one in bold as a boundary though, not when POJA is used in M.

It's nice to know I'm not alone in wanting my FWH to take care of me, to get the door for me, and many other things that in today's society are deemed as wrong. I've always felt old-fashioned in this way, but it's the way I was taught.

FWH is a natural-born leader in all ways. People have always turned to him for guidance (including his superiors) and it's one of the main reasons I fell in love with him.

I agree with every word of this. I understand why men come here so confused; I was raised by a feminazi who destroyed 2 of her sons. Men are emasculated by women and kicked aside because they are ............emasculated.

That is why I want to help them out of this. Most are paralyzed with fear and afraid that if they act like anything other than a METRO SEXUAL they will be castigated. Acting on fear, according to expectations has led them to this place of powerlessness, and I want to help them out. They don't have to be paralyzed by fear.

WE have so many examples of men here who stood up for their families and started acting like leaders. It can be done.

I feel sorry for men these days and I don't mean that as a put down. Men can't look at an attractive woman or tell a joke in the office without and being accused of sexual harrassment or being a pig. If a man complained about such things he'd be seen as a weinie. Yet the woman who claims a man is oogling her has the twins and her rear hanging out. Not saying she deserves to be devalued but come on...what does she expect?

It is a shame that boys can't defend themselves in school without worrying about getting suspended, expelled or sued. Makes me worried where society went so wrong. I guess my son may get in trouble some day...

Mel,

I think you and I are thinking along the same lines. My experience is that more than a few sons have gone down the tubes and even to death because they were in extreme conflict between their instincts and what was expected of them.

JL

Great discussion. A little personal information. What is really funny in our marriage. My wife literally makes 95% of all decision around the house. When she asks me to do something (vacuum, dishes, trash) I mindlessly obey. I really do the jobs without giving any thought to them at all. So I find myself subservient around the house. My wife once asked me why I could not just get up and do the jobs without her asking. I said OK, all things being equal, I would like you to start a business which will generate 800,000 in sales with a net of 80,000.00 in pay. Then I would like you to go out and pioneer a new product from the ground up. And at the end of 2 years, I expect you to have over 250 customers utilizing the product on a monthly basis. I of course to expect you to be available in the evenings for installations an of course weekends as well. She has never required me to do more then mindlessly obey her requests for help with the chores. She now understands that while I am mindlessly doing chores, I am most likely thinking up opportunities to provide income and freedom for us.

How about a quick comparison.

List female inventors.

http://inventors.about.com/od/womeninventors/a/women_inventors.htm

List male inventors

http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinventors/a/Famous_Inventor.htm

This should blow you away. Comments?

There are over 33,000 men inventors.

Women number in the dozens

To give women their due. Women are superior in organizational skills. I am sure if you researched the inventors, a huge amount of their inventions would have been lost, if not for women. Men are dreamers who think outside of the box. Women are practical and industrious. Much more then men. To me it is a prime example of the bible being accurate.

And the LORD God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.

JMHO

Interesting discussion. I love the male characters in Sandra Brown's novels. They are confident men who lead and I've wondered where are these men? If I may chime in - mothers are getting mixed messages about how to raise a son. I wanted to be the best mom to my kids so I would read books on boys and girls. I remember reading a book on how boys early on are given the message that they are not supposed to cry - this causes later problem of creating men who are emotionally closed. I think intentions were good as far as getting a male to be more open with their emotions but somewhere along the way men have becomed confused on how to be a man in a relationship. I honestly don't know how my son will be with a girlfriend but he is better at communicating his emotions!

gg

Having raised 2 boys, I found that women in the schools expected my sons to express their emotions like WOMEN. They believed that men had the SAME emotional make up as CHICKS. Nothing could be further from the truth! Women find talking about their feelings to be therapeutic, men do not.

When my older son was killed, my younger son was HOUNDED and BADGERED by some female counselors at school to come in and "talk" about his feelings. I told those broads to BUZZ OFF. My son has never needed to "talk" about his feelings and he is very emotionally healthy. He is just not an emotional person and neither am I.

I see that many in the counseling culture don't seem to understand that boys are different from girls emotionally. They believe that boys are just chicks who are reluctant to share their feelings. NOT SO.