Mel, Please don't leave me! I so value your opinion! And you have me so pegged.....you call me on everything and I'm thankful. Please, I want your help.

That's always best...let's hear from the BIG GUY!!

Mel...Don't think I am undermining you.. we have been posting while the other was writing....Yes... we are a little torn on this one...I agree with ALL of what you are saying..It's just the timing...

I just don't want her to not get to this FAMILY weekend... She needs some deposits to show him a safe place soon because she has to get out of Plan "A" before there is damage....

Mel... I will leave... I don't wanna any troubla froma youa...

You're so right here. and tst was right that I shouldn't appease him. I have to fight this head on and stop my old behaviors!

vst,

You do need to respond to WH. You opened up the conversation and you need to close it.

Say what you had written and bring up your weekend plans.

As Mel said, you don't need to make this into a drama.

Your H is wayward. He's not going to remember any of this conversation in the morning because he's still stewing about not being able to carry on his affair. Poor baby!

Frank, I value your opinion too. I don't want anybody to leave me.

Please, guys, I'm in a horrible situation here. I came here for help and I've gotten great help and support so far. I need you all to stand by me ok?

Ok, thanks tst.

I heard this same kind of babble from tst.

All he's saying is...

I have no plan to end my affair because I don't plan to end it.


Your letter is a great response. It tells him that you aren't buying his bullcrap anymore, and he can't bully you into feeling guilty about HIS affair.

He wants you to quietly submit to the destruction of your family.

Remember, do what is RIGHT...regardless of how you think he will respond.

It doesn't MATTER how he responds to your email. You're email is a statement of your boundaries.

I've been thinking about something all a.m. and decided to sit down and pose the question.

I was thinking, the OW has chosen to stay with her family. Therefore, she is not chosing my WH. If he continues the A then he is taking the OWH's seconds. Is he looking at it like that? Does he have "long-term" anything in his mind? Or is the OW spewing babble to him to keep in on the hook...things like I have to do this for my children, I only love you, etc. Does the fact that I'm fighting for our marriage even after all the crap he's put me through mean anything to him? Or is the fog too thick to see anything in realistic terms?

Just wondering.....

I didn't get a response to my reply last night....

vst, don't over analyze a wayward. Yes he's in a thick fog!
Until a wayward is repentant they think of no one except themselves.

Zero!
Nada!
No One!
Nothing!

Except themselves!

So...did you send that email like Mel suggested that you do?

Are you still over-thinking it?

OR...are you still so focused on what he is thinking that you are choosing again to delay recovery?

The biggest move to save your marriage, to date, has been your exposure. You hedged on that for a long too, didn't you?

Do you want your marriage to recover or not?

You really need to listen to the people who have USED the principles here...and whose marriages are recovering.

You are allowing the path to get cloudy with all this other stuff.

JMHO
committed

Thanks tst, It's just a hard concept for me to grasp.......that he isn't thinking of his family, his DD! But I get it.

Thanks for your reply C&L, I know I've dragged my feet but I'm moving forward now. I did send the email from last night. I do want my marriage to recover. I want my WH to recover!! I'm listening and I intend to follow the advice given. I do wonder about things from his perspective sometimes.....I'm trying not to let it cloud things up though. Sometimes I guess I just need to be reminded that he isn't really evil, he's just really really foggy.

Yeah, understanding "foggy" versus being inherently cruel, manipulative and evil is VERY hard to grasp, ESPECIALLY when you are in the thick of it. It's much easier to see it in other people's situations.

It's also very, very hurtful...I know, I remember it well. Even now, even with my FWH treating me VERY, VERY well, I will sometimes flashback to some of the cruel things he did and said to me and I just can't believe it was him.

vst...you really, really need to start prepping for Plan B and I will tell you why: you WILL eventually lose the love for your H if you stay in contact with him and he continues treating you this way. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE. It has happened to me, and you don't see it coming.

He will do just "one more heartless thing" and WHAM!...your lovebank is completely drained. We don't want this to happen to you because once that happens, it is much harder (often impossible) to recover your M.

Read up on Plan B and start thinking about these things:

~who your intermediary could be
~start drafting a PB Letter (there are samples around here)
~what kind of a visitation with your DD you want to set up
~how finances would work

You do NOT need to worry about:

~where he will live (not your problem)
~how you will pay for this (not your problem)
~if he will be upset (same as above)

Ok? Knowing that PB is coming will often give the BS some relief and allow you to Plan A him a little longer...just knowing that relief is on it's way.

I was HUGELY relieved when I went into Plan B. And I had to do it QUICKLY (which is not the best way) because I snapped when I found out we had been in a false recovery.

You have time to start getting your ducks in a row and that is a good thing!

Yes, she is choosing your husband. AND HER HUSBAND. She can have both. Your H can have both. That is what they have chosen. And that is what they can have as long as they continue to work together. Your H is not done with his affair. He sees his lover every day.

That is his plan.

Now, what is YOUR PLAN?

Bravo to you for sending the email. And I apologize for my meltdown yesterday, my frustration went off the charts.

I am frustrated because I don't think you have clearly and concisely told him your boundaries. He needs to be told CLEARLY so he is has a CHANCE to do that before you go into Plan B.

He is still under the impression that he is in charge and believes he is the wounded party here BECAUSE NO ONE HAS DISABUSED HIM OF THIS NOTION. Rather his fog is being validated at every turn. That is dangerous.

As his wife, we need you to lovingly lay out what it will take to recover your marriage. OTHERWISE he is validated in feeling the victim and will just view Plan B as being mean to poor him.

This does not mean you fight with him, but that you become a broken record about his leaving the job and selling the boat. He should not be under the impression that any of this is negotiable and he currently believes the job issue is OFF THE TABLE.

That needs to change, vst.

p.s. MarriedForever is giving you GREAT ADVICE about Plan B. Please take good notes because she is a Plan B pro! She has done a pitch dark Plan B with 4 children!

I understand Mel and thanks for staying with me. I had told him before about the NC requirement but as you say he didn't take me seriously. He's been able to push me around so far and will still try to. He has still not responded to my email from last night so I don't know what to expect, but I'm really not concerned about it. I'm not doing anything wrong, he is.

And I will take MF's advice, and I'm glad to have it!

I'm about to go out for a while but wanted to post this question before I leave:

My WH I believe is confiding in a female friend (yes female as usual...). She and her husband when to the amusement park with us a couple of weeks ago. I totally believe she is harmless... Anyway, I'm concerened as to what advice she may be giving him. I think she is a Christain and I would hope she is offering her opinion based on "truth" but I don't know this. Should I call her and ask or say something along those lines? I know I can't control everything, although I will give it a try, but I know I can call her and she will talk to me, at least to a certain extent. She is one that I exposed to that day. What do you think?

What he's "thinking" is irrelevant just now. Because he's not. Thinking. When my DH was wayward you coulda pushed me over with a feather when he had no regard for anything that had always mattered before. You'll drive yourself NUTS trying to figure out what's going on in his mind. It's too foggy in there!

Keep shooting those bullets about what needs to happen whenever possible (matter of fact not whiny). Eventually they will bust through.

Thanks PM. I just saw him while dropping off DD at his work. He takes her to dinner and brings her home on Thursdays. He totally ignored me. Like I wasn't even there. It hurt and it made me realize that I don't think I will be able to take much of that treatment and if it continues, I will have to go to Plan B.

Also, I called the OWH just to check in. He said OW is in counseling at church and has shown great remorse and when he's told her if he isn't the one she wants to be with then please lets just end this, she chose to stay. I wanted to scream at him, BABBLE BABBLE! But, what can I do? I've already told him all of that so I can't force him to do anything. Mel is right, she can have both and her husband is making is possible. It just makes me sick. I asked him if she told him I called her and she didn't. Well, I guess she isn't being totaly honest then is she? Because he had just asked her had she talked to me! Hopefully he will call her down on that one.

Anyway, there's an update for what it's worth. Sucks for me....

Oh, and I have a friend in my bible study. A very lovely young lady who loves Jesus and is a school teacher for young kids. Her parents divorced when she was 9 as well, and she wants to spend some time with our DD to talk to her and try to get a feel for how this if affecting her. I'm so grateful for her! I'm thinking I will tell WH about this. Just a little guilt poke....that maybe our DD needs to be in counseling because of all this??