This was from another site.

In the last week we have had two gentlemen on another site lamenting the fact that after talking, cajoling, encouraging, enticing, and introducing into the the lifestyle, their wives. They now have to deal with unforeseen issues. Like their wives falling in love with men their husband encouraged them to spread their legs for. For the enlightened ones here who believe the lifestyle can enhance their marriage experience, a few thoughts.

Men, you may believe that this could add a little pepper to your marriage. The problem lies with the make up of men and women. A man can look at sex as just that. SEX. He does not necessarily feel a connection with a woman, because of it. A woman on the other hand, in most cases, makes an investment when she allows a man to enter up inside her. In many cases a woman has a deep spiritual connection with the man when they have coitus. While it is true that there are women who can compartmentalize the sex. I believe that this is not the norm.

Think about this for a moment men. When you allow some other man to do your wife, you are risking more then you imagine on a couple of different fronts. First you risk her finding someone who is better then you in bed. And guess what guys, there is always someone better then you in bed. Next you risk her finding someone she emotionally connects with who tells her " Your husband is insane for letting me do this to you. If you were mine, I would treasure you and hold you forever, I feel so fortunate to be doing you." Next you have the wife like in the recent story who after having an affair, comes to her senses and realizes her husband has been using her to get his yayas by watching other men defile the woman he is supposed to love, honor and cherish. Till death do you part. Hopefully this little talk will alert those out there that are considering letting other men inside their wives.

Now there will naturally be those marriages that can survive the lifestyle. But I believe those to be a tiny minority. And someone may come right behind me and say. "Hey my wife and I enjoy the lifestyle". Think for a moment. Would the two men that have shared here in the past couple of days, said the very same thing at one point. So the next time a friend or someone you know approaches you. Or you look on line and see a standing invitation to swing with no strings attached. Remember this............There are always strings attached. And some of them may be attached to your wife's heart.

Enlightened ones? Nobody enlightened would believe this.

Do you seriously believe that men who read this web site might be considering swinging?

I must've missed the 2 swinger threads

Have you seen the show "Snapped"? There was an episode where a woman fell in love with the swinging mate - they plotted and killed her husband. Needless to say the H will never be swinging again.

GG

Betcha $50 bucks there are. But you won't hear about it.

Charlotte

I know that there have been posters who have indulged in swinging and who come to MB because they regret it. However, I cannot see that somebody drawn to MB, who either posts or lurks, considers swinging.

That's like saying that the rest of us consider having regular affairs.

I think that there a men on this site that will consider anything.

Why do you think that about men on this site? Surely men on this site are interested in marriage building.

I can name names of a few that don't but I'll still betcha 50 bucks that there are others who DO think about it, MB or not. Even OWH mentioned it before (he's not on MB, though). He was lamenting because Slag never wanted to try the lifestyle--they had discussed it because he thought they could "handle" it as a couple--then she turned around and had the affair. After expressing distaste about the swinging.

But he NEVER even thought of going at it alone, and there are men who do. I was looking around a bit after that conversation and I was shocked at how prominent it is, hence the 50 buck bet.

All walks of life, too: teachers, business men and women, regular working Joes and Janes...just about every level, the ones that gave away their career status, anyway. Even now I wonder sometimes about people I see or meet and wonder if they are in the lifestyle.

Gray never posed that to me but I'm sure he thought about it.

Charlotte

I was listening to radio clips from Dr Harley today and he had a call about this very subject. A man [15 yr marriage] had pushed his wife into swinging and she was now on her 3rd AFFAIR and had left her husband. The man was heartbroken that he had lost his wife and wanted Dr Harley to tell him how to get her back.

This situation is the RULE, not the exception of what I have seen here over the years. Swinging destroys marriages.

Not to butt my nose in where it doesn't belong, but I know two couples that are swingers and both partners really enjoy it. They are very happy with their partners and love them very much, but their sexual appetites crave more and they are comfortable enough in their relationships to explore those appetites. They have told me that it makes them enjoy each other even more. Usually there are rules to the situations, like swinger parties, there are rules that must be followed and accepted by all parties. But that is just what I am told.

I don't think I could ever do that but I can see how a man or a woman might do it for their spouse just because they love them. I don't think I could even do it then...but not having a spouse or an S.O. right now...I don't know because I'm not in love.

But, nahhhhhhh....it would just feel too degrading, I think.

I do recall some people that hung out where my aunt was working...a bunch of the couples got into that and then there was a question about paternity in some cases witht the children. (My aunt never engaged in the activity but people talked there, so that's how she knew. She was a bartender, if that clears it up. Everyone tells them everything, so I've heard.)

Anyway, I think a couple of the marriages broke up over it when the spouses fell in love with the other people.

Charlotte

It is a recipe for disaster. NINETY EIGHT PERCENT of swinger marriages end up in divorce, so obviously it is not a smart strategy if one wants to remain married. Dr. Harley calls it a "perfect formula for divorce." It does not make marriages happy, it destroys them. We have had countless marriages show up here in dire straights from "swinging."


Dr Harley has some clips on this in this radio archives:

November 29, 2006 Segment: #00848 [this is the caller I listened to today - his wife left him after having 3 affairs. They have had an "open marriage" for 15, married for 22. His wife left him for one of her swinging partners]




December 18, 2006
Segment: #00776

April 27, 2007
Segment: #00465

This is the perfect recipe for DIVORCE. And that is usually what happens with swinging.

Dr. Harley on how affairs start:

"When one intimate emotional need is met outside of marriage, the others are not far behind."

ML, DM, GL,

I do not doubt that many people - or perhaps more often men - consider swinging. I also know quite well that swinging destroys marriages. I can quite well believe that since adultery is more common that not in marriages today, swinging will be common too. Also, as I stated before, I know that people have come here because they have already indulged in swinging and have lived to regret it.

I just doubt that men who read MB "consider" this practise - i.e. think that it might help their marriages and wonder how they might put the suggestion to their wives. I just doubt that there is a recipient for the original post - i.e. someone considering swinging - on this site. But since I'm in danger of distorting this thread with a pointless argument, and since it is 2.30 AM here, I'm going to bed!

Have a restful sleep and sweet dreams!!

(and I'll still betcha 50 bucks....)

Charlotte

I don't doubt that it has ruined many marriages. But I only know of two couples that have ever tried swinging. I can't speak for those that it didn't work for, only for the two that I know it does work for. And I only wish I had the intimacy that they have together. And they are from two different generations too. One couple is in their 50's and the other is in their 30's. And I have been told a lot of the things that they do for each other and a lot of the things that they have done with others. And honestly I am envious of the relationships that they have, because they love each other very much.

I'm not saying I would ever do that, I am too jealous to imagine my H with another woman, even if I am with someone else. But that's just me. Not all marriages are the same.

Yep, I agree. I would have said the same thing to and about mine: pre-A.

Charlotte

Yes, I know people who have played Russian Roulette and lived to tell the story. But that does not mean playing RR is smart strategy.

A person with any sense would avoid engaging in a practice that has NINETY EIGHT PERCENT divorce rate and is described by a leading psychologist as "a perfect recipe for DIVORCE." ..... But thats just me.

Yeah, well, I'm not going to be going on any dates with OWxH whenever I decide to start dating, that's fer dang sure!!

Charlotte

ugh! I don't blame you, what a turn off! I liked him until you told me that.

Well, I still like him. I don't know how much he actually thought about doing it whenever he and Slag had these discussions because I just kinda changed the subject when he brought it up, LOL! It might have been a fleeting thing.

But...not taking any chances and I think he might want to ask me out when everything is done. I would go if it was clear that we are just pals going, no romance. Otherwise...sorry, washing my hair!!



Charlotte

DM, thank you for your kind wishes. You knew that when I said I was going to bed I'd have to have one last peek here, didn't you? Well I'm going right now, but first I have to say about this:

GL, you're going to feel that you're getting unfairly bashed again, because people here leap on whatever you say. However, I have to leap on this.

What a bizarre way to look at these marriages!

Having sexual relations with another person while married is not "intimacy". Involvement with another person destroys intimacy with one's spouse. Regardless of the outward affection you see displayed, and of the tender words you hear spoken about the spouse, what you are seeing is not intimacy. There can be no intimacy in a marriage in which other partners exist. The extra-marital activity might make the spouses grateful to each other for allowing it, and might make each spouse more tolerant of the other's faults. Swinging might be the reason why they are able to stay in the problematic marriages, but such is not intimacy.

It beats me that you can be envious of couples who have sex with other people in order to make their marriages tolerable. I think that focusing on each other and the problems in the marriage, and trying to make the marriage a wonderful place to be, is the way to happiness. Dr Harley's programme teaches how this can be done, and when both spouses use MB, the outcome is success. When both couples swing, there is a 95% chance of failure, for the reasons Mel (and Dr Harley) cite.

The idea that having barnyard sex with other animals will create "intimacy" in a marriage is a ludicrous. GEtting one's needs met outside of marriage does not create "intimacy;" it ERODES it and is the "perfect recipe for divorce" with a 98% divorce rate.

You're welcome! And of course I knew! Hee hee!!

I think what Lacey means is that she is jealous of their intimacy, not their lifestyle! That was my take on it, anyway. Maybe she can clarify.

Charlotte

Okay, nevermind that....it's too gross. And most of those folks are dead now.



Charlotte

This one goes with the too gross thing so it's a goner, too.

shut yore mouth!!

I did! I went back and edited!



Now people will wonder, though, LOL!

Charlotte

That's ok, I don't feel bashed about this, because its not my marriage or idealisms that we are talking about. But I can tell you that you don't know these people, you don't know what they think or how they feel. I can also say that I don't know how they think or even how they really feel. All I know is what they tell me. I am not condoning what they do, but if it makes them happy I am not condemning it either. I do know is that I see that they are very happy together, in and out of their sex lives. It is not the lifestyle that makes them happy, its the intensity that they feel for each other. One of them was a very good friend of mine, and sometimes she gave me more details than I wanted because I always saw her like a mom and even called her Mom. But she described it to me like this....

There are times when you need to open your mind as well as your body. I love my H and I love having sex with my H, but I also enjoy watching him have sex with another woman as well as he enjoys seeing me with another man. It makes us feel even closer and it makes us want eacht other even more. Its like having your cake and eating it too. It is so much more fun than just regular sex, and we have plenty of that, but after a while, you gotta spice it up, and since we've done pretty much everything together there is only enjoying sex with others left. Not to mention it drives him crazy when he sees me with another woman, he can hardly hold on and wait to join.

I am only paraphrasing, because it has been a while since she said this to me. But I see how much they love each other and they have been together for at least 20 years. They have a beautiful relationship. You may not think so, and that is fine. But I think so and I hope they always keep that spark that they have, it is really cute to see them together, some times to the point of it getting gross. lol. It just depends on who you are and what you are willing to do. Like I said I would not do this, but I am not them. And it is very possible that the two couples that I am speaking of are in that 2% that can make it work.

Well, that's fine for them. I can understand it.

But not for me! No way, no how!

But then, I don't even know what sex IS anymore, so that's okay.

It's safer that way.



Charlotte

It's also possible they will get a divorce.

Perhaps these people can survive such a marriage, but what kind of intimacy is it when a man needs to see his wife acting like a pig in a deviant sex act with another woman to get aroused? What does that say for the state of their marriage when they have to GO OUTSIDE of their marriage to get sexually fulfilled? That denotes a great LACKING, not a strength. If one can't get their needs met in a marriage, that is a problem, not an asset.

I think that getting one's jollies through deviant styles of adultery [and that is all this is, condoned adultery and sexual deviance] misses the whole point of making love. It is not making love, it is getting off. Like barnyard animals. It relegates what is supposed to be an act of love to nothing more significant than 2 pigs rutting in the pig pen. It is sick and putrid to those who can appreciate that sex is the result of LOVE, much more than 2 jackrabbits getting it on.

The failure rate of swinging marriages is 98%. I betcha the failure rate of Russian Roulette is even lower than that. But I think common sense dictates that RR is not a smart strategy if you value your life. Nor is swinging a smart strategy if you value your marriage.

Its also possible that anyone and everyone that gets married will get a divorce. Unless you can predict the future. I didn't say that they wouldn't, I just said that that its working for them. If that changes, then too bad for them, but I'm not trying to predict the future, just saying that I know two couples that are swingers and they love the lifestyle and they love their partners.

Which is greater: 98% or 50%? If you were a betting woman, which would you bet on, the marriage that had a 98% failure rate or the one that had a 50% failure rate?

Which one do you think would most likely fail? The one with the 98% failure rate or the one with the 50% failure rate? Tough question, I know....

We're done here folks - this is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site.