Do they ever! My hopes get so high in the night when he cuddles and tells me he loves me...the next day I get a hug and a peck on the corner of the mouth as he comes and goes.

I'll be in and out with work most of Friday, White, but I'll be checking in here for my sanity fix.

Have a great day tomorrow, everybody!

Oh, believe me, I know. It's so hard. I really had to adapt to try not to let my hopes soar. It hurt so badly when I'd let them soar and then WHAMMO. The first month was so hard... we'd make love, and it would be incredible, and I'd be so sure we were so connected, and then he'd say something the next morning about how he was so sorry that he loved me but was never in love with me and should never have married me...

He'd tell me in conversation about what an incredible person I was, and then he'd tell me not to get my hopes up

It's all the fog.

I love it! WR, you should start a thread about things to say to a WS to keep them in line.

Righteous indignation, no name calling, said calmly. That's it.

Well, you know, hot air disapates fog...maybe we need to stick their heads in the oven?

I like how you think, LOL!

Seriously, it's a bit difficult to get into, but you MUST for your sanity be able to look at him and realize in your own head that the mothership is still hovering above your house and scrambling his brains. It helps. Really. It's far better than just thinking he is a garden-variety a-hole, right? He's an alien. Warped. Not himself.

I have a very visual imagination, WR, so it's not difficult to see the mothership spinning around up there, sending down flashing beams of brain-scrambling fog.

He went to her house Thursday evening, was there just a couple of minutes - she must not have been home. Or, more likely, told him to go away.

I called the OW yesterday and we are going to meet today. I've got to ask her what is going on since I can't get answers out of the alien. I truly believe she initiated NC with him.

I know that's not recommended, but it's something I strongly feel I need to do. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Pray that I'm able to keep my homicidal tendencies under control!

Trust that **edit** as far as you can throw her. Seriously. I can't imagine how you are going to sit there and NOT claw her EYES OUT. If I could be face to face with college **edit** buddy, the EA partner, I'd beat the ever-loving **edit** out of her, and since that is all she is, I'd likely face significant charges LMAO

I'm a very visual thinker, too. My IC actually told me it was something she liked about me because it made our sessions fun for her LOL.

If I were you and you absolutely had to meet her, I'd do my homework and make sure I knew just enough to scare the pants back on her. She needs to know that you can contact her H, parents, coworkers and whomever to make her look like a fool without morals. Let her know she will virtually wear the scarlet letter.

How did the meeting go?

We changed it to Monday afternoon. The OW had an AA meeting yesterday. That speaks for itself.

I'll be very careful with the OW, blast her pointy head, WR! I may accidently spill hot coffee in her lap...

I do know way more about her than she or WH think. I also know a lot about their A that they don't know I know. Ya know? LOL

About an hour after going to bed last night, WH rolled over and cuddled me and some other stuff. I was lying there, held tightly, and started crying. WH just kept stroking and squeezing me. I finally managed to speak and said "Please let me back into your heart." He said he was trying to do that.

So here comes the optimism again.

He has been spending more time with me at home, and I'm making LB deposits as much and as fast as I can. I've actually seen a smile in his eyes a few times.

Crossing fingers and all appendages...

Leap, I know what you're going through, but please try to stand tall and steadfast. Have you read my threads? I'm only a few weeks ahead of you, and by far not an expert, but I can tell you that the best advice I ever got was to STAND UP. Seriously. You're dating again. If dating, is weak and needy attractive? Nope. Confident and proud is. It's hard as Hades, but you gotta do it, even if you fake it til you make it. The best mileage in all of this process that I have had was since I stood up and said NO MORE! I exposed his stupid behaviors to all that I could, even his own mama, and I put him in his place. You have to. It's all done, calmly, but firmly. Sure, you will cry at times, but my H now knows that though I cry and I don't want to put him out, I WILL if I must. It has really brought ALOT of progress...

Oh, and how are you caring for you? (Again, I know that is hard, but it has to be done... you wearing make-up? It helps. If you feel better about you, you glow more attractively.) I have worn make-up every day of this except day one, which was proclaimed to be "Wallow In It Day" and the day I lost our baby. Remember how beautiful you are, and show it off.

BAD IDEA! The solution to feeling discomfort together is NOT to stop doing things together, but to LEARN TO ENJOY each others company. You won't learn that by staying apart. Staying apart is what has led to all this.

Further, if going to bars is what has led to his affair, then he should stop going to bars. Yes, you have not met his needs, froggy, but that does not entitle him to do things that jeopardize your marriage. The things that led to the affair have to be removed.

Rather than "STIFLE" him, you need to learn to ENJOY each other.

I am still reading through your thread, but I have an important question. Has he ended all contact with the OW and has he sent her a NC letter? Has her husband been notified of this affair?

I suspect he is sneaking off to call the OW. if he feels you are "smothering" him and then complains about being "alone" for all these years, something does not add up. He is sneaking off to call the OW.

Froggy, what do you plan on saying to her? I would have this all thought out beforehand.

However, it would be much more effective if you would just TELL HER HUSBAND. He has to know and it needs to come from you, froggy. Is he home today? Can you go to their house and tell him?

If you have not told him before your meeting with her, I would WARN YOU against telling her you plan on telling her H. DO NOT give into the temptation to try and use this as leverage, because IT WILL BLOW UP IN YOUR FACE. this is a threat that will backfire on you because once you tell her you are thinking of it, all she has to do is pre-empt you by telling her H that some "crazy woman believes I am chasing her husband!" So when you do call him, he won't believe you. You will have been disarmed of the most potent weapon you have.

Secondly, I would strongly advise you to expose the affair to everyone when you expose to the OWH. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure is ruinous. Your parents, his parents, your children, close friends should all know about his adultery. Exposure takes all the fun out of the affair when everyone is looking at you with disgust.

We have had affairs end the very day they were exposed, Froggy. At the very least, it will hasten its death.

Check this out from Dr. Harley:

"I'm in the process of rewriting "Surviving an Affair" to add information about plan B. Some of the main points are as follows:

Whether in plan A or B, the world should know about your husband's affair. All of your relatives, your friends, your children, and the licensing board for your husband's lover. In some states a licensing board will revoke a license if a counselor is having an affair with a married person, client or not. This is because it's well known that affairs hurt families, especially children. And counselors know better than to have an affair.

The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is.

<snip unrelated>
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery."

Thank you, WR. I've been trying very hard not to seem needy or pathetic. I still have my pride.

I started wearing make-up again when all this first happened. I've lost 43#, with more to go, but I will do it. I went last week and got contacts to wear again 'cause I do look better without glasses.

I am making me a better person.

I read your threads, and WOW! what you've been through! I'm so very sorry about your baby, too.

BAD IDEA! The solution to feeling discomfort together is NOT to stop doing things together, but to LEARN TO ENJOY each others company. You won't learn that by staying apart. Staying apart is what has led to all this.

I had not thought of it that, Melody. You're so right. So that puts an end to that idea.

To the best of my knowledge, the EA has ended. He will not admit to it, and I know that is a requirement of recovery. Just being sure it is over will be enough for me, for now.

I am going to ask her what is going on, and how much contact they have had since I asked her to stay away from him.

I'm going to tell her some of our history together. I'm also going to make sure she understands that he NEVER talked to me about any of these problems until he was ready to blow.

Any other questions to ask will be very welcome!

OWH is a long distance trucker, and not home again for a week or so. I will absolutely not tell her I'm going to expose to him.

I exposed to his group last week and all that did was make WH decide he wasn't going to hang around with them anymore. He's also going to find another place to ah, bowl. He's embarrassed for people to know about his EA. (Like I care!)

LF, I think you are on track in your first paragraph, but off track in the second. That no good skank has NO RIGHT to know anything personal about your marriage. The only thing she needs to know is that HELL IS COMING if she does not stay away from your H. But please do not give personal information to swine. She has no right to that information, it is not her business. '

Bravo on your bravery on confronting her, leapfroggy! While many OW do not care, it does have an impact sometimes. In my H's affair, it was confronting the OW that ended their affair. I explained to her that her affair was DONE. She wisely believed me!

You're so right about the personal info, Melody. I'm so grateful I found this board! I'm meeting her at 3 this afternoon.

We talked last night after coming home from one of his hangouts, where I had gone to see him. He was not happy to see me there. I told him that being apart was part of what caused this problem and how could we fix it if we were apart. He doesn't know the answer to that, just that he feels smothered when I go where he is. I think I'm interfering with his fun, which hurts me too.

I asked how long we would go on with this uncertainty, and he doesn't know that answer either. All he knows is that he doesn't have any idea how long this is going to take, and he doesn't want me around his hangouts while he does it.

He has a good friend who is gay (I like her as a friend too) and I'm thinking of asking her to talk to him. When she sees him, asking where I am, saying that she likes me, and stuff like that. Maybe if other people are positive about me, he will be too. What do you all think about that?

If the lesbian you are speaking about (wish I had a name or pseudonym, because I feel weird just calling her "the lesbian," LOL) is a "good friend of his," then she's on the exposure list. Remember, expose to ALL, so there is no rock for the worm woman to have him under. I wouldn't even tell her what to do, just let her do what comes natural to her. I'd wager if she has any backbone and is a good friend, that once she gets the exposure info, she'll do what needs doing. He needs people to talk sense into him, but it needs to feel natural, uncontrived.

And forget asking him how long it will take, because right now he is not in any place from which to say anything meaningful or trustworthy. Anything he says at this point is suspect. It's hard as Hades, but you have to Plan A carrot and stick and wait it out, unless you have to go to B territory, but I wouldn't rush there. Lean here, we'll help. (((hugs)))