vst, why are you concerned about a post-nup agreement right now?

Your full attention needs to be on fighting the affair. Plan B is about protecting yourself from the affair drama.

To get ready for a Plan B, you need to start working on your letter. There is a sample in SAA on page 80. The letter is a short love letter about how you love your husband and believe that a great marriage can be rebuilt. It states that this cannot happen until his is NC with OW. It states that you will no longer have any contact with him because you are protecting yourself from the continued hurt and suffering his affair is causing. You need to include information about the intermediary you have set up.

You need to determine an intermediary that will handle ALL, and I mean ALL, contact with WS. You are to no longer take his calls, receive his emails, see him, etc. Anything he needs to relay to you goes through the IM, who will filter any abusive stuff out and only give you pertinent info about kids and finances.

You need to have finances and visitation worked out. You will probably need a Legal Separation Agreement in place for that. These are two areas that WS's can often get through a Plan B--finances and children. They will use those two issues to make an excuse to contact you directly. So the firmer you have this set up, the better for your Plan B to be dark.

I suggest you have someone set up to be the drop off and pick up site for visitation as well. This is often the IM, but it could be a neighbor, family member, or friend. Having this arrangement prevents him from barging into the house and breaking Plan B when he picks up your DD.

Stop worrying about things that are irrelevant at this time. You have very little emotional energy left. Use it WISELY.

And about the "claiming back" stuff. You have no idea right now what you are talking about (I mean no disrespect there). You are presently in the biggest trauma of your life and you have no idea how you will trigger later. "Claiming" something back comes after the affair is over and YOU decide what triggers need REMOVED from your life and what things you will claim back. Considering how much hurt will be associated with that boat, it will be in your best interest to SELL it.

My point last night was that the boat seems irrelevant to me right now. The focus, IMO, should be the affair and NC.

HOWEVER, Mel makes a very good argument about this boat being an AFFAIR APARTMENT. Not only will it be a trigger for you, it will be a trigger for him (he will have intimate memories there that aren't about you). Also, this will remain a place where he can sneak away to, just as an affair apartment/condo is. His being in that boat while trying to be NC, will prolong his withdrawal from OW. It is an avenue for him to continue to fantasize about OW without you even knowing he is.

Focus on getting your plan B IM set up.

Who can you think of that might be willing to do this for you?

Did you holler and scream at him, throw things? (Angry Outburst)
Did you throw disrespectful judgments his way when you declined to go on the boat?
Do you think not going on the boat is Independent Behavior on your part? I see it as a boundary.

Just because he doesn't like something doesn't mean it's a LB. You're doing great... except for bringing up relationship talk, but Not already beat you up for that so I see no need to do it again.

I appreciate everyone's help, I do. And I'm really doing the best I can. I appreciate the point about the boat being a trigger for him. I never thought about that. I was just trying to Plan A. He's so angry at me I felt that at least this weekend, I need to not lovebust at all. I know I screw up in the eyes of my advisors here, a lot, but my intentions are true and I really want to do this the right way. I really want to give my marriage the very best opportunity to recover.

I understand what you are saying about everything and I know that is what I need to do. I do have a IM in place and I'm working on figuring out how to transfer the financial stuff from this computer to his. I will call my lawyer tomorrow but from what I recall from talking to him before, getting a legal separation will void my rights to a D on the grounds of A. If I end up going thru with a D, I will need those grounds to protect me financially. But again, I will verify that. I am looking at sample letters and I'm getting prepared Plan B.

I didn't do those things. I see now that my going on the boat was most likely avoidance conflict. I know how much that boat means to him and I get soft trying to please him......but he manipulated me like that regarding his "friend" too. So, in retrospect, it needs to be a boundary. Especially after hearing about how it will trigger him.

Sorry I didn't listen to you Mel!!

vst, when you get into recovery, that boat will trigger you horribly, and it will probably get WORSE as time has gone on, that is how some things have been with me.

Right now you are so desperate to get into recovery that you are negotiating things (both with yourself AND with WH)...but as time goes on, you will most likely realize that you really CAN'T tolerate the boat.

I agree with SMB here that you are really putting the cart before the horse...right now you should be concentrating on getting INTO recovery. Prepping for Plan B is where your energies should be focused. I am pretty certain you are going to need it.

I'm so confused right now. I've written an FU letter.....I have not sent it but I am tempted. When I sat down and wrote out what he has put me through throughout our marriage, I want to send it. I really don't feel much hope when I think about all the changes he would have to make in order to even begin to recover. And as I've said many times, I don't think he would agree to the two major boundaries: job & boat. I'm just feeling tired, angry and hopeless today. I see how complicated and difficult trusting him in the future would be as well. When he is at work, I have no idea what he is doing....obviously. I've been duped twice now. Just flat out lied to my face! I don't know if I can go through that again. I've read about people having false recoveries, maybe even several of them. I've already been through two.....It's just too much. I think he is so very messed up and I don't have the strength to help him.

Here's an example of what he's done to me: After the 7/08 d-day I refused to be around her at all (thought it had been just an EA at that point, again stupid me). Because "it" was not being told to anyone (I know, again I'm stupid) he felt he couldn't hang with any of his friends as it was a whole group thing. But he wanted to "get back to normal". So new years is coming up and he's whining about not being able to see his friends and asked if I would consider having a party. Now mind you I still didn't trust and I hated the OW, BUT I agreed to do it for him, to make him happy. She came into my home. Yep, sure enough. Can you believe I allowed that to happen? The next day, he hugged me and thanked me and said "I know that was hard for you but thank you." I told him it was too hard and I didn't like it. He got really really angry and said "fine I'll just have to make some new friends I guess." Then he went and pouted. I went in and as usual was trying to find a way to make him happy so he came up with a way I could comfortably be around her. He said "when you feel uncomfortable, come to me and I'll comfort you." How cruel is that people? D-day #2 soon followed that.

See why I'm so angry? And confused? I know this isn't an unusual story. WH's have done some pretty messed up stuff. maybe I'm more mad at myself for allowing him to treat me that way.

Yes, I see why....

because you are overdue for Plan B.

You have been hurting for a long time, and NEED the protection of Plan B.

That is why we are trying to get you there.


vst, everything you just posted about your WS, any one of us BS's could have posted ourselves. Your WS IS typical. He is doing typical things. He is saying typical things.

AND every BS on here thought their WS would never do what was necessary to recover the marriage.

You are so afraid that he will choose his job and boat over you, that you aren't will to put the pressure on him to choose. You'd rather not find out and just run. That's no way to live, vst.

Do the Plan B.

What in the world do you have to lose?

It is completely understandable how angry and hurt you must be. That is why you should start preparing for plan B so you don't get to plan FU. The things that you mentioned both happened while your WS was already having an affair. I am so sorry. If you can hang on a little longer and work your plan A and then plan B, you have a chance to recover your marriage and keep your family together. If it fails, you will know that you have done everything that you could to save your marriage. Plan A is very hard to do. You are doing a great job. Hang tough a little longer. Keep coming here to vent - don't vent at your WS.

If an LSA voids your adultery claim, then here's what I suggest.

File for divorce on grounds of adultery. Tell your lawyer that you are hoping to reconcile if WS is willing to end his affair, but not until then. Ask him to drag is feet on the divorce.

This will set up visitation and finances. It will also tell WS you are NOT AFRAID to live without him.

Then give a Plan B letter and go completely...and I mean completely dark! None of the sort of dark Plan B's that seem to be going on around here lately. That is a waste of your time and your emotional energy. C..O..M..P..L..E..T..E..L..Y DARK!

Plan B stops the abuse you are continuously taking. IT removes you from his affair drama.

You can move on to Plan D later if you choose.

Right now, this roller coaster is yanking you up and down, up and down.

You cannot make sound decisions based on how you FEEL right now because that will change from day to day, or even hour to hour. Remember, just a day or so ago you were talking about reclaiming a boat. Now you're talking about not having the strength to wait this affair out.

You CANNOT let your emotions lead you.

If you want your family restored, then follow the plans to make that happen...REGARDLESS of how you feel day in and day out.

Two DJs right there. You're not letting him own his part of the recovery. You're worrying about his part and what he will or won't do, when you know that you can't control him. He will either step up to the plate, or he won't. Quit wasting cycles on what he will or won't do, what he is or isn't capable of. It's wearing you down and it's not fair to him.

You may want to start getting your Plan B preps in order, in case it comes to that.

In the meantime, Plan A your little heart out. And that means not trying to own his actions or his part of recovery.

Thank you SMB & SS2. Voices of reason are what I need right now. Am I ready for Plan B or do I need a little more time in Plan A?? That is the question. Mel says I need to be letting him know what my boundaries are even in PA. I've let him know about the job and NC. I have not mentioned the boat. I've not been good about restating my boundaries during this time. Do you think I need more time in PA or move on?

He seems to be responding a little better to my contacts with him.

Thanks turtlehead. I'm not letting him own his own actions and I am worrying about what he will or won't do.

You're right SMB my emotions are so out of control! If I did let them control things, I would have just walked away. I can't worry about what he will do, I just have to worry about what I cannot live with and stand firm.

I just feel like such a failure! One minute I think I've got my crap together and the next I'm falling apart!

If you can hang in there for say, another week...then go ahead and Plan A him for a week. But give yourself a deadline as to when you will go to Plan B. Have it mapped out and meticulously planned.

I think SMB has some good advice about the D...you may need to get that started merely to protect yourself. That coupled with a tight Plan B could very easily turn this around. Your WH is going to do a big HUGE "WTF just happened?!?!?!". It may be his wake-up call.

HOW.EV.ER. That should not be your motivation for PB...your motivation is to save yourself from the abuse and pain he is dishing out.

I think you are going to need a MAJOR shake-up in order to for him to see what he IS going to lose if he chooses not to quit his job, go into full NC, etc.

(((vst)))

I also HIGHLY recommend that you order these books TODAY and beging reading them ASAP:

"Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson
"Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend.

Get going!

I've left a msg for my lawyer to call me. I will stick PA out for a week or 2 more.

I suggest getting your ducks in a row for Plan B and AS SOON AS it is set, go dark.

The most important thing is to have it all set up BEFORE you go dark, so that there is no reason to peek your head out of your Plan B.

I think because you have been dealing with this for so long already, that you are close to your emotional breaking point. That is why you need to get into this plan B ASAP.

You have written an FU letter and contemplated giving it to you WS. I'm sure that letter has enough LBs in it to counter all your hard work in Plan A. I am very concerned that if you are not into Plan B soon, you will just break one day and have a love bust festival.

You've worked too hard on your exposure and your Plan A to let that happen.






I agree 100%. I just think that if he agrees to NC and ACTUALLY LEAVES HIS JOB, then getting him to sell the boat won't be that difficult.

But I could very well be wrong on that.





You need to understand that how he behaves is not relevant to whether your Plan A is affective. I think too many BS's expect to see the WS REACT to the Plan A. Often, Plan A doesn't matter at all UNTIL the BS is dark in Plan B or until the WS's affair ends.

THEN, and not until then, will many WS's remember Plan A and how wonderful you were.

Many BS's think just what you posted above...WS is responding better to my Plan A...and so they think that they should avoid Plan B.

NOT a very wise Plan IMO, to let a WS's behavior dictate the BS's actions. Any half-wit WS can pick up on that and use it to manipulate the BS into continuing to enable the affair.

You need to be in Plan B BEFORE you reach your breaking point.

I think you said you had an IM in mind. Send them here to learn about Plan B.

It is crucial that they understand their role in protecting you from the WS's hurtful words and actions. They should filter out all the babble. You won't know what WS is saying or doing. The only information they are to pass on to you is important stuff about visitation and finances.

They are your "force field" so that WS can't get in...until he has agreed to all the conditions in your letter. Not SOME of the conditions, ALL of the conditions.

Conditions for you to consider including in your letter:

No contact, of course
Leaving his job
Selling the boat
MB Marriage Coaching/MB Weekend/MB Online Seminar (any or all of these)


If he is willing to counsel with MB, then he will be coached about HOW to stay NC and HOW to be transparent with you. You won't necessarily have that with another approach.