Probation Officer! !!! !!! Way to "affair down." OY! Good for you! How'd you get the PO's number? LOVE IT!

I'd consider even looking into the records as to which judge sent her into AA, and notify him/her, too. Am I remembering that they are hanging at BARS?!?!? HAHAHAHA! Betcha that violates the terms of her probation and certainly would piss off AA. Bet the local Police would love to know that someone with court ordered AA is re-emerging into a barfly persona... they might even help in your spirited exposure.

Now you're into it. EXPOSE, NUCLEAR STYLE! ROCK IT, WOMAN. You only get one shot to do it really, really, really, really good and rock 'em and shock 'em.

When he gets pissy about the GPS, just tell him point blank "You left me no choice. He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing. I don't know how you look yourself in the mirror! Where's the honor in this? Slinking around behind my back is NOT honorable and upstanding as you have always been. I won't apologize for trying to save you from yourself, because YOU have never been THIS. Not dishonest and unworthy of trust, and fraterinizing with probationers to boot! I love you, and won't stand by and watch you lower yourself like this and desecrate this marriage like this."

Calm, cool, collected. Matter of fact. Righteous indignation. Have your sentences picked so they are dead on.

WH just called me, and I admitted putting the gps on his phone. He asked me why, and I said because he had lied to me so many times. He said, no, not really. I said explain. He said that not telling me things wasn't really lying. Oh yes, it is, said I. You should have told me about taking her to the AA meeting beforehand. What about the two hours you were there last night? He said he took her cigs and milk. For two hours, ask I? The two hours you spent there last night is time we could have had together.

I also told him that affairs, 95% of the time, develop from friendships. He wanted to know how I knew that and I said I had been reading alot.

You have all the evidence you need.
Expose. You sound like you're getting a grip on that.

Stop arguing with WH, do you see how it's turning into a pissing contest? You won't get anywhere. WH will not want to come home if you make it like he is on trial for this A.
I know it's hard but when he talks the fog talk, change the subject, start to sing a song, go clean the toilet ...

Stay strong, stay in control of your M.

Did you go back and reread? Please pay attention to Plan A both parts.

V is right. There's little sense in talking to an alien (remember, during an A and the fog-aftermath, an alien has likely replaced your H). You don't speak the same language. Expose, rip their greener grass world apart by the roots, swift and true. Then, the fog will eventually lift, and the healing can truly begin. Make no apologies for things done to catch him. It's your right and obligation. You may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. He didn't bring her cigs for 2.5 hours.

IT IS TIME TO EXPOSE!

Sit down right now and write out a list of his family members, your family members, important friends, clergy, and anyone on OW's side who may make a difference, with their contact info.

Then you sit down tomorrow morning, or whenever you will not interrupted, and start dialing. Do not stop until you finish the list.

Then you might take a day trip somewhere - without your phone - to clear your mind and prepare for the backlash.

I got WH to take a lie detector test yesterday. He is NOT having a A with the pig. He just wants to help her get through her DUI for another week or so until she gets her license back.

What will happen when her H returns and finds out about all this help and time spent at her sty, I don't know. I'm going to let the ship fall where it may on that. I'm also going to tell her PO and counselor what's going on. She deserves this.

Now, we come to my whole other problem: He says he isn't in love with me anymore, although he still loves me. My neglect of his ENs over the past years has caused this, and he doesn't know if he cares enough to try and rebuild our marriage.

I explained the concept of the Love Bank, and LBers, and his only response was that somebody made a lot of money from that.

He also doesn't know if he will ever want to save our marriage. He's been so alone, and gotten so used to it, that he doesn't want ANYONE intruding.

I asked him if we were just supposed to go bumbling along, waiting for him to decide something. Again, he doesn't know, and doesn't know if he will ever know what he wants, other than to be left to himself.

I told him that I was going to do everything I could to rebuild our marriage and he said he just didn't care right now.

What do I do now, gang? I'm not going to die of old age, I'm going to die of a broken heart...

WAIT. What? You got him to comply with taking a lie detector test straight up from his furious response to the GPS? And you managed to schedule, and have it performed, that fast? How'd you even have the time to formulate the whole list of questions?! Wow.

I'm wondering if he didn't bugger up the test, because I'm sorry to say I think there is less than 5% chance he's completely innocent in his relationship with Whorella.

My H pulled that same song and dance about how it wasn't an affair, yada yada, didn't know if he wanted to bother... yada yada.... and honestly I *do* think we are on the path at this point. Sure, it's far from all wine and roses, as I do get occasional alienick rants like a brief toggling back toward the mothership, but by and large we're doing better. It was hell to get here though... months of me snooping my [censored] off and still not LBing (believe me, it's hard not to AO when someone is sitting there being a pig about everything, but most of the time I succeeded in not AOing) and months of meeting his needs as best I can. Upped the RC ALOT. Even things I really can't stand, I just smile and go with it. It was hard, but worth it.

I think you got screwed on your lie detector. How much did the polygrapher charge you, and how many baselines were given before how many pertinent questions?

Yes, he went along with it. I'd been working on a list of questions I wanted answered for some time, and the examiner had some others.

I got lucky on the scheduling of the test, there had been a cancellation. And there's only 50,000 people in this immediate area, so I don't think the demand is all that high. This guy does other stuff too, and was highly recommended. He did a baseline, talked to me and the WH, then just me, and did another baseline.

My H is not physically capable of a PA, and while I still think there's a very, very slight possibility of a very minor EA at this time, I've got to go on.

This whole thing came about because I neglected his EAs for so very long. I failed on attention, admiration, conversation and SF. And RC.

I told him yesterday, after expressing my extreme gratitude for the testing, that I felt he had built a barrier between us and wouldn't let me through it or around it. He agreed that I was right. I can understand that, he doesn't want to be hurt anymore.

All I can think to do is continue trying to meet his EAs, and maybe that will cause a tiny crack in the barrier. I'll just keep on Plan A, and pray. More.

We've had several very long conversations. My H is sometimes a frustrated social worker. He has a genuine friendship with the pig (she'll always be that, to me) and wants to help her get her head straight. He did tell her that he will only help her as long as she is in the diversion program.

She fell off the wagon (not fatally, sadly) yesterday, and called him for help. Since she was already drunk, he said he'd meet her at a bar. He CALLED ME to meet him there. He actually wanted me to be there! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

So anyway, he and I talked to her and got through to her a little what she is doing to herself. If she had been caught drunk, drinking or in a bar, she would be off to prison for at least two years. Same thing if she failed the pee test this morning. (Dang it, she didn't get called to go in!)

Anyway, she went home and we went to dinner and shared an order. We came home and talked for several hours, some about the pig's problems and other general stuff. One thing he told me is that she hates the structure of the drug court program she is in. He keeps telling her that she has to let go of the negativity and think of the positive aspects of it. (Mental note made to self about this statement.)

Later, just before bed, I reminded him of that statement and told him it also applied to our problem. H just looked at me for several minutes, and then agreed that it does. He said that he is trying to keep an open mind and open heart. I said that was all I could ask for now, and being in a good mood and not hurting like I usually do, I didn't want us to say anymore then.

We went to bed and an hour or so later, had SF. Then again in the wee hours. I should add that he's taking saw palmetto and that seems to be helping with the ED.

He is keeping me totally informed of any contact with her, and said that he had gone about trying to help her in the wrong way. He should have told me from the beginning what he was doing, and he apologized for hurting me that way.

So I am trying not to be overly optimistic, but I do feel so much better today!

Cross fingers and all appendages for me, please!

((((hugs to everybody))))

Geez, where is everybody? It's getting lonely here...

Yesterday was pretty good. After our RC, H was going to a watering hole, and I said I'd go home. He thought for a minute about asking me to join him, then didn't.

He kept me informed about where he was until he came home.

Piggy had to go for a pee test this am, and he called and told me he was taking her, then would be home. Dang it, she passed the test!

He's a little more open and lots more friendly to me these last couple of days. I'm hoping...

***wrinkled face here***
Something doesn't sound/smell right here. I'm sorry, it just doesn't. Little piggy needs to be put out to pasture, for one thing... I wish you luck, but I'm telling you that there is something foul in the wind... hopefully a longtimer will come to help sniff it out before it goes too ripe and rank.

Explain to me again why you are allowing him to take her to a drug test?

She has a ding of some kind on her license, and won't drive any more than she has to. That should be corrected this week, and H won't be driving her ANYWHERE.

Every now and then, his frustrated social worker comes out of hiding and H is compelled to help someone.

I'm going to go with this for a week or so; I truly think he's finally telling the truth about her.

I also truly believe she's going to get caught drinking, and will not pass go, but go straight to jail. With some help from a little froggy...When that happens, he's told me he's totally done with her.

Uh huh. Sure. Let me just get this last little smidge of coke out of this baggie. After that, I won't need any more. I swear.

That wasn't my question. It was, why are you standing by and allowing it and helping him dry her out?!

Next step? Gee honey, she's having such a rough time, and you know she means well - you've seen her when we're trying to dry her out! We just need to let her stay with us, just for a couple weeks. That's all. I swear.

Oh, and I'll just need to stay in her room a few times, just to make sure she's not scared staying in a new place at night.

Am I the only person having trouble with this?

Fair enough, but he should be helping MEN.
To befriend a female "in distress" shows remarkably poor boundaries.

There is more to this than meets the eye, I agree. Something is rotten in Denmark.

You're right, Turtle, he should be helping men. But there aren't any that need help now.

Cat - I can't forbid him to help her. He absolutely would NOT go for that. And there is NO WAY in a very hot place she would ever stay here. Or that he would ask.

Ok, I just spoke with her PO, he was very interested to know that she is still drinking, and will be looking for her. Cross your fingers on this, guys! I want the pig in jail!

lf, maybe this is a key indicator of what's wrong with your marriage. This is not a dis, I'm really trying to understand.

In a normal marriage, it is NOT acceptable for one spouse to spend inordinate amounts of time with a member of the opposite sex. It is an unwritten rule - it just doesn't happen. If you guys have had that slippery boundary your whole marriage, you are going to need to do some real work on establishing what a real marriage looks like.

He may simply not understand what he is supposed to be doing in a marriage. Believe me, we've seen crazier ones than that here.

Can you explain the dynamics and history of your marriage along those lines? Maybe we can figure something out to help.

Me! Me! Me! They are meeting some ENs for each other. So what if he passed the lie detector test NOW. The way it's going, he won't in the future. What's going to happen when she "sobers up" and is so grateful to WH and wants to show her gratitude? Or if he comes running some night when she has a crisis and things get a little out of hand? He IS a man.

Something IS rotten in Denmark.

He's done this twice before - both times with old female friends. And I know that they were friends only. Both times I knew about it as it was happening and participated to some degree.

The reason he went underground on this because he knew I was unhappy with their friendship. He thought he could get her straightened out and I'd never know anything about it. He is a caring, generous guy and sometimes this altruistic side of him gets loose. He realizes now that he was WRONG.

We have never forbidden each other to do something - just expressed our opinion on why the other shouldn't do it. And expressing that opinion has always been enough before now to end whatever it was. This is the only time he's gone behind my back.

My abandoning him emotionally didn't help any, either. He had someone who valued his opinions and listened to him talk. I DIDN'T.

I've changed my attitude toward him, paying attention, complimenting and being admiring. (Especially admiring for him helping her @#$*&^%) I'm trying to become his RC again, and do what I can for SF.

He said last week that he was trying to keep an open mind and open heart to me - this, I think is what I really need to work on. I abandoned him so thoroughly that he doesn't know if he can let me in again.

I wish he had firmly spoken to me when this problem between us started, but he didn't. All I can do now is try to get inside his head and heart.

You are accepting too much blame. You may have allowed an environment that was ripe for A, but you didn't start the A, he did. No is still NO, and you say NO PIG, so now what? You really are not standing up for yourself, and as hard as it is to envision, it IS *the* way through. Are you attractive as you cower, whine, mope, apologize, and beg to be let back into his heart? Nope. You are, in many ways, dating again. What was NOT attractive then is also NOT attractive now. Good self-esteem would be the projection you seek, not crumb sucking and sniveling.