I think this phrase has just become a hockey-puck ... thrown out on the ice and hit about ....

he has low self esteem so he had an affair

she has low self esteem so she yells at her kids

he has low self esteem and that is why he hits his wife

she has low self esteem and that is why she dresses like a hooker

he has low self esteem and that is why he gets bad grades

[color:"red"] STOP THE INSANITY [/color]

I think using the "low-self-esteem" defense for lousy choices .... is just too easy

try a different word

try

RESPECT

self RESPECT requires a reverence for doing what is ~right~

for doing what is difficult

for bringing HONOR to our own world

for meeting our obligations

self esteem gets all bound up with feelings ....

RESPECT is the key

not

"self esteem" .... the way it is commonly used today

[color:"blue"] MY opinion is free .... you get what you pay for [/color]

I don't give a fiddle for someone seeking "self esteem" when they clearly don't respect what is noble in themselves or others....

Pep

I like that Pep.

Wayzilla sniveled incessantly about her sad “low self esteem”, granted me an honorary place of standing in the cause of it and placed it high on the list of justifications for the affair.

I bet that surprises ya.

Pep,

Not to TJ, but there is a recent study out, that apparently shows that the effort to "combat" low self-esteem in children which really started in the 80's has backfired. Today they are finding that kids are having a rough time because they hold themselves in such high esteem that they don't feel they need to work hard, nor prepare for the future.

Ya, know I wonder does "esteem" mean one has no "go"; they are out of steam? I'm confused.

JL

I have long refused to use the word "self-esteem" and always insist on using "self-respect" instead.

Totally with ya on this one.
Mulan

I used to use the words self-esteem to describe myself, because, as Mulan stated, it was a big deal back in the 80's; it was THE catch phrase. I do hold myself in high esteem, but self-respect is what helped me to make better choices. Since *I* had to deal with the consequences of my decisions, and I cared about myself, I learned to respect myself and make good choices for me, that would have a good impact on me.

Sometimes folks have "low self esteem" because there is not much TO esteem. This was the case with myself. I had low self esteem when I acted shabby becasue there was nothing there to esteem. When I behaved in an esteemable way, I had good self esteem. Funny how that works. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Pep,
Thank you and that's right on target. By saying someone has low self esteem, they can be considered a victim and thereby assign blame and responsibility elsewhere for their actions.
Respect for yourself, your commitments and others requires responsibility, hard work and tough choices, something it seems society doesn't encourage, by custom or by law.

V/r,
NW

R...E...S...P...E...C...T

Or lack there of...
Lack of respect for the BS...
Lack of respect for promises made before God and witnesses...
Lack of respect for one's own values that must be dishonored in order to begin the A in the first place and ignored at every turn in order to continue it...
Lack of respect for the children and what the example is that is being set for them...
Lack of respect for decency and a sense of right & wrong...
Lack of respect for family and friends who have always considered the WS to be honest and decent...
Lack of respect for the OP's spouse, family and friends...
Lack of respect for the years, months and days that the BS has often spent trying to figure out what is wrong and changing themselves in an effort to make things better, often at great expense to themselves and their own well being, only to discover that the problem wasn't them at all...

The low self esteem might be the result of the lack of respect.

Mark

I agree, I'm right in there with you guys...self-esteem, I got that...self-respect...well, I think that I'm still working on that...

SL- I agree with you too...it's the self-respect that has helped me to make better choices...

Pep,

I see you are learning Italian. Low Esteem and High Esteem.

How much esteem you lika me to use ona your cappuchino. Low esteem ora High Esteem.

Too much esteem maka coffee to hot. To little esteem maka coffee too cold.

I am with you guys on this. I like value and respect myself. Don't use esteem much, my coffee is warm.

I value and respect myself to the highest degree. So High self respect and a High value of myself.

Then again too much self love makes you jealous of the people that are envious of you.

Any way that is my take on this.

Mark, all of them were good, but this one really got me:

Lack of respect for the years, months and days that the BS has often spent trying to figure out what is wrong and changing themselves in an effort to make things better, often at great expense to themselves and their own well being, only to discover that the problem wasn't them at all...

I had a talk with one of my kid's teacher once. My son had said something that wasnt quite nice about a girl in his class. And of course, I know (and he knows now!!!) that he shouldnt have done that.

But in the middle of our discussion, the teacher brought up the word "self-esteem." About how the teachers needed to build and protect the kids self-esteem.

I told her "all but one." She responded "what do you mean?" I told her that she had my permission NOT to build up my son's self-esteem. That if he did something wrong, it should be labeled as wrong. That if he missed a question, it should be labeled as wrong.

She went on to say "Well, all that negativity might cause him to give up or feel bad about himself." And so I went on my rant!!

I told her if he wrote 2+2=5, then he should feel bad about the answer. I'm not saying he should run to the bathroom crying about it! I'm saying he should know it is wrong, so he can correct it and be right the next time!

Nothing irks me more than the thought of seeing a kid holding up a paper that says "2+2=5" amd smiling proudly about it!!

You folks are right on here! I told his teacher that I want my son to respect himself. And that only happens from learning from mistakes and getting it right the next time!

My thoughts exactly, ML!

I'm really BIG on respect....self-respect and respect for others. Self-esteem can't be found without first developing a habit of respect.

Lori

Actually, it's:

no God-esteem
low other-esteem


I agree with you, though--ironically, it's self-centeredness that causes all these problems (see above). Even if it's a self-critical self-centeredness, or a depressed self-centerednes...the result is the same.

bump because .... Advise to others: "raise your self-esteem" does not provide a tool with which to do that~

Which comes first?

1. Liking yourself?
2. Doing the right thing?

Using self-esteem as a *cause* of behavior is a chicken/egg thing or, more likely, a cart before the horse thing.

he has low self esteem so he had an affair
He had an affair and now he feels worthless

she has low self esteem so she yells at her kids
She yells at her kids and now she feels bad about herself

he has low self esteem and that is why he hits his wife
He hits his wife and now he doesn't feel like an honorable man

she has low self esteem and that is why she dresses like a hooker
She dresses like a hooker and now she feels objectified rather than valued for her thoughts, actions, and contributions

he has low self esteem and that is why he gets bad grades
He doesn't study and that's why he feels bad about his performance

It's just like Harley's principles regarding marriage. Most folks don't "feel" in love (poor self esteem) so they don't "act" in love. Reality is that feelings follow actions. If you act in an honorable, respectful (or in-love) way, then the feelings follow.

Interesting correlation.


I personally wouldn't call that self-esteem. I'd call that entitlement. And it pisses me off.

If I like myself I will do the right thing? So I can't make good choices until I like myself, right?

Wrong !

I do the right things, I make good choices, ahhh I like myself.

Do I get the 'A'