You mentioned this a while back too. It made me think of a GF who hated her job, it affected every aspect of her life.
She had a bite plane for grinding/stress. Over the years the plane went from thin to very thick, and I mean thick. She developed and was hospitalized for ulcerative colitis.

She got a different job that she absolutely adores. No more bite plane, no more acute episodes of ulcerative colitis. She admitted that she hadn't realized how much her detesting her job, had such a negative impact on her life. Of course, this was after the fact.

We grossly underestimate the impact of job satisfaction, and it is such a huge part of our lives.

Asolutely sure.

L4

The last few days of posts from you, and especially the one above, tell me you still don't get it. Sorry, but you don't.

I don't feel qualified or experienced enough on MB to wield a 2x4, but I have to say a few things.

You experienced and continue to experience this trauma to your marriage from the perspective of the WS. Obviously, it's the only way you can. But you absolutely, positively don't know the pain of being betrayed by your spouse. From your side, you've pretty much moved on and the OM is out of your life and mind. Do you realize the OM man may be not be out of your H's life for years? The pictures in H's mind of you giving yourself emotionally and physically to OM haunt your husband. The pain he feels is sickening, unbearable. And you're pouting because H won't initiate SF with you? Get real.

Your tone and phrasing lately comes across like "I'm over it. Why can't he be?"

Did you forget you are responsible for the current condition of your marriage? That your betrayal and evisceration of your husband, your taking of his manhood from him by getting naked with ANOTHER MAN, is why he has trouble taking down his defenses and opening his heart to you? What do you expect of him? Come on L4. After six months? Are you kidding me?

Can you imagine having to overcome the thoughts of your husband in the arms of another woman, in the heat of passion, giving his heart, passion, affection and body to another woman, things that should only belong to you? How long would it take you to get over it? Probably longer than six months.

I've been one of your biggest "fans" and I truly want yours to be a success story. I know you are trying hard. The past six months I think you have been exemplary, at least as you have portrayed yourself, in doing what it takes to restore and rebuild what you tore down with your own hands.

Go another six months and I might believe you're committed. If you say you're not sure you can go that long without feeling "love" from your H or him initiating SF or being affectionate and passionate with you, that's another sign you don't understand the damage you've done and what it takes to repair it.

Are you in this for the long haul or not?

Hello Looking4,

Looks like you are going through some rough times...



HOWEVER...

You do realize what you are doing, right?

You are engaged in an old fashioned p#ssing contest with your husband...

You don't give him what he wants...

and he doesn't give you what you want...

How's that working for you guys??

I about fell over when you said:

"But my body isn't obese, and it's a lot of hard tough work to get smaller and stay smaller."

Wow!!! Looking4, it's a good thing your husband isn't having to go through anything hard or tough...

Like he sees you having sex with the OM in his mind about 23 hours a day...

Like I did...

and can still look at you and stays with you...

when it would be MUCH easier to just leave...

Do you think it's not hard, tough work for him everyday???

Honestly, what do you think he thinks when he KNOWS how you can lose the weight IF YOU WANT TO...

You just don't want to FOR HIM...

Even though you KNOW how important it is to him...

The weight you are isn't even the issue...

It's a SYMBOL to your husband of what HE is worth to you...

what you are willing to do FOR HIM...

and what you were willing to do for the OM...

i.e. "I think that the reason that I've been so hesitant at getting back into great shape is because it too was something I WORKED SO HARD AT DURING MY A".

FOR THE OM!!!

Keep it up and I can tell you who wins...

Neither of you.

and who loses...

Both of you and the kids.

Either you drop your agenda against your husband of I won't give you what you want because I'm not getting what I want or you will both lose...

Quit making it a focal point in the marriage!!!

Start showing your husband that it is IMPORTANT TO YOU BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT TO HIM.

THAT will score huge points with him!!!

Mrs.Flint and I got a countertop grill and between grilling chicken breasts with a salad and veggies lost a ton of weight, TOGETHER!!!

You can add all different types of low fat meats and fish and now they even come with removeable grilling plates for the dishwasher!!!

Mrs.Flint in the beginning thought we should both come back to the marriage at the same time...

I told her it doesn't work that way...

We both didn't LEAVE the marriage at the same time...

I needed to see WHAT there was to come back to...

Same as your H...

All you are telling your husband is that the OM was worth more than he was...

You mention the FOM approached you at your heaviest,

and you thought that meant you should be attractive to your spouse regardless of size,

In the most respectful way I can tell you,

here it is,

OM DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU LOOK LIKE AS LONG AS YOU ARE WILLING...

TO THROW AWAY YOUR GOD, MARRIAGE, KIDS, SANITY, SELF RESPECT AND DIGNITY...

FOR SEX.

You're just a piece of strange to them.

Your husband CHOSE you to be his WIFE forever, not just a little cheating adultery sex when he felt like it.

The OM didn't want you for a wife, your H did.

See the difference?

The OM didn't care if you thought he was great...

If you knew what his EN needs were...

What your weight was...

That you were having sex with anybody else...

Just that you were willing to put out...

Looking4,

Your resentment is showing...

Tell me you understand that this p#ssing contest of wills and testing your H and I'm not getting what I want so I'm not giving you what you want is going to stop and you will get back to being the BEST WIFE you can be in ALL ways.

Because only THEN will you know if you have a marriage or not...

You STILL haven't come back to the marriage BECAUSE you can do BETTER and you are REFUSING to do so...

BE THE BEST LOOKING4 YOU CAN BE AND THEN SEE WHERE YOUR HUSBAND IS AT!!!

God bless.

Jim

No.

I'm sorry it reads this way. Because I am not over it. It's nearly 1:30am. One of my closest friends and I just spent a great evening together and we have a new, beautiful dog added to our family. It's been a good day. Yet I still cannot sleep because what I've done haunts me constantly.

Thank you, ottert.

I'm going to sound highly defensive with this remark, but again, I haven't felt "love" from my H in years.

I know the time table here is from D-day, and that mark is the one that counts -- as it should because of the devastation that I brought to our M that day. When things are hard though, when I'm pushing the car up that hill without anyone's help, it's difficult not to reflect on the 25-years of history H and I have, those before October 26.

Yes, I am. I'll keep a stiff upper lip going forward and keep my tears for the park.

With the exception of AS, I think I am giving H what he wants. I'm falling short with this one EN, not getting up at 5:45am in the morning for my workout but instead staying up late with H in hopes for some UA time.

Because I don't look like a super model, you say I'm being selfish and pi**ing on my H. I cling to every word you say Jim, for good reason. But this hurts. And I know... Sometimes the truth does. But does working hard on everything else have any merrit -- O&H, FS, Admiration, RC, FC, and more, plus other AS points other than body shape?

I guess it's like b_r said. I need to be doing everything 24/7.

I will give up my attempts at UA after the kids go to bed. Because working out can only be done at 6am in the morning that means bed at 9:30 and hopes that I can sleep. I'll try.

(Last year when I was working out like a banshee, H was gone 3 out of every 4 weeks. I didn't have to work around his schedule and neither one of us seemed to care about UA.)

Working out is still a big trigger for me. Trying to reclaim my treadmill, swimming, biking, my videos, and other things has been difficult. I'll try harder.

I do not have an agenda "against" my H. I was being honest about what I thought I might have uncovered about myself, expressing that I want to bring up with my IC whether not getting skinny might be about not wanting to bring suspicion to H and perhaps wanting to test concerns I've had about H's commitment should I dramatically change physically. (Due to weight, disease, accient.) I expressed sadness because my H doesn't seem to love me and it's hard for me to do this one thing. I think loving your spouse is important in a marriage and I might be using this as a test. I don't know. I could also simply be a lazy slob. I want to know why I can't put in the time for this one EN -- if it's more than because I'm constantly tired.

My focal point is not a stay-heavy agenda against my H. I didn't realize I had said this. My agenda is helping H heal and hopefully getting H to love me.

That's awesome that you two do this together. H says because he doesn't have a problem with food, he shouldn't have to do without his favorites in the home -- I need to buy what he likes too. (When I don't, he does his own shopping and brings them into the home.) I put his snacks in his office and he moves them back to the kitchen. He leaves them on the counter and when I ask him to put them away so I'm not tempted, he doesn't consitantly comply. I make a Weight Watchers meal and he complains it doesn't have enough flavor. So for me to eat healthy every night, it means making two meals for dinner -- one for me and one for the others.

What I'm hearing is because I cheated and because I'm the one who needs to be pushing the car, I have to deal with my weight issues myself. I'll take this on too.

H likes flavor, sauces, and other things that don't often compliment low fat. We have the Foreman grill and try things. I'll try harder.

Okay.

You have no idea how much this kills me.

The reality of this shreds me.

Reading this, I want to crawl into a hole and hide with my shame, disgust, and degredation forever.

Not a pi**ing contest. Mark mentioned his wife and I was able to relate to her issues. My body fitness has been a struggle since DS8 was born and now there are perhaps additional issues at play with why I can't seem to get skinny again. I go up and down. It's a very real stuggle for me -- pre- and post-A. I'll keep this problem to myself going forward.

Thank you, Jim. I'm really glad you stopped by. I've missed you. And Mrs. Flint too.

L4,

I am rooting for you and think in general you are doing a good job. But these last couple of posts really look wayward to me and not formerly wayward. Re-read what you wrote. And the kicker comment is you "have not loved your H in years." Is that really, really true or a re-write of M??????

AM

Good Morning Looking4,

Thanks for the hug.

You don't know how much we want you to succeed...

You and your husband and kids are all in our prayers for a recovered marriage.

I swear sometimes I think you ARE my wife by what you are going through and what you write. I have heard EVERYTHING you have wrote FROM MRS.FLINT already during our early recovery.

So I'm going to share the same things with you that I shared with her...

We kinda covered a lot of ground and some of what I wrote is going to take more than one post...

soooo we can take parts and discuss them a little more.

First of all, I DID NOT say you were p#ssing on your husband, I said you were having a p#ssing contest which is a contest of dominance and getting YOUR way, NOT degrading your husband.

YOU said I wanted to test my husband if he would stay with me through accident, disease etc. MRS.FLINT said she would withhold commiting because WHAT IF JIM DIED or we DIDN'T WORK OUT??? See what I mean???

As far as the weight thing and working out and dieting...

I don't think you understand what I said...

IT'S A SYMBOL TO YOUR HUSBAND!!!

NOBODY said you were supposed to look like a supermodel...

BUT...

What you are doing is borderline passive aggressive toward your husband...

You said I don't want to raise suspicion in my husband...

and THEN you say it's his fault you can't lose weight because HE leaves junkfood around and won't watch his eating with you???

Did the OM do that???

Thought so.

You don't have enough will power to refuse temptation of junkfood, but your H is supposed to think there won't be another OM???

By the way, our whole family eats what I grill and they love it. (Maybe because I'm fixing it. It takes less than 20 minutes to grill marinated meat, open a salad and microwave some veggies. Fill in between meals with low fat popcorn and snackbars and you will be suprised how fast it works IF YOU WANT TO...

YOUR WORKING OUT AND LOSING WEIGHT HAS BECOME THE FOCUS BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR H. YOU RESIST AND HE FOCUSES ON IT EVEN MORE!!! Remember what you said about your efforts in the affair? YOUR HUSBAND DOES!!!

OKAY, HERE IT IS...

IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF YOUR WANTING TO STAY HEAVY...

I don't think you want to...

IT'S A QUESTION OF WHY YOU PUT MORE EFFORT INTO THE OM THAN YOU ARE YOU HUSBAND!!!

Looking4, You are not understanding something here...

You are trying to withold certain things from your recovery...

The biggest is that of SHOWING your husband that he is worth MORE than the OM.

He remembers the effort that you gave the OM.

IS YOUR HUSBAND WORTH IT TO YOU???

WHY ISN'T HE WORTH AS MUCH TO YOU AS THE OM???

IS IT A BLANK CHECK TO YOUR HUSBAND OR ARE YOU TELLING HIM YOU CAN HAVE THIS MUCH OF ME???

Before you answer, think about it.

The balance in the marriage has not been restored yet, has it?

YOUR HUSBAND STILL SEES THE OM AS HAVING BEEN WORTH MORE EFFORT FROM YOU!!!

UNTIL HE DOESN'T YOU GUYS AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE...

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GO BACK AND READ ALL OF THE CONTRADICTIONS IN YOUR POST.

ALL THE I DO TRY TO DO THAT AND THEN I DON'T TRY BECAUSE...

ALL THE IT'S REALLY MY H FAULT BECAUSE HE WILL OR WON'T DO THIS OR THAT...

We all care so much for you.

Please.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT...

JUST SHOW YOUR H THAT YOU WISH YOU WERE FOR HIM.

I'll be back.

Jim

Starting to remind me of the old poster at work...

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

I'm gonna sit today out I think. Got some of my own stuff to work on.

Mark

Hey Mark,

I don't know where you think I've been "beating" Looking4, but I do know one thing.

Looking4's H has ONE focus right now.

All of the other things she does will be missed until that focus is worked through by them together.

I don't think that she understood how HE sees it.

I helped identify it for her.

I REALLY hope you didn't think I was beating her,

One because I wouldn't do that to her and

Two because it didn't sound that way to one that has LIVED what she is going through, namely Mrs.Flint...

God bless.

Jim

Hi, Everyone.

Thank you.

I don't even think I'll respond to each post.

Because I'm embarrassed.

I see exactly what you're saying. I slept all of maybe 2 hours last night/this morning but I see more clearly now than I did when I was writing these earlier. Even before I read your comments. (Thank you for taking the time to do so.)

Despite having a good day yesterday, I still had a bad late evening. Everyone asleep. And the haunting of what I've done returns.

I came here to read and write and got off again. I woke up this morning feeling that I was out of line and wrong -- making excuses. I came back to delete what I wrote.

But alas... too late. My selfishness and idiocy have once again been shown.

It's easier to paint myself as being the ever-at-task, diligent L4, ready to rescue and save this M. But you're right in that in my actions, I'm not saying that, and certainly not in every way. I'm not giving H what he deserves.

I've said here over and over that I will do ANYTHING to save this M, yet I'm not. I come here and I talk a big talk, I talk more about it, I make excuses when it isn't going as I want, I look to H to pull his part, then I get defensive when y'all show me the other way -- the right way.

When you take the time to show me the mistakes I'm making, it's frustrating to think that once again, I've made a mistake. I so badly want to make no more mistakes. Sometimes I take it in, sometimes I lash out or whine -- like I have been lately.

This game I'm playing now with you, and in my head sometimes with my H, is getting me no where.

I need to stop analyzing, pi**ing (thank you for pointing out the difference between what you actually wrote, Jim, verses how I read it), excusing, "but-ing", and running in circles.

I would like to think of these last few days of my POJA whining and the excusing of the ENs, as a time where I stopped at a rest stop and spent too much time sipping bad coffee and inhaling too many car fumes.

I know I've let my H down.

I've also let all of you down.

I really am sorry.

I want to be among KiwiJ, Mrs. Flint, E, RubyDoo, Mrs. Mark1952, LG, and the many here who have recovered and who have an M to be proud of.

I want H to be proud of me, if at all possible.

So...

Time to forget about everything else and get at it.

I've got my cowgirl boots on, I'm behind the car, and I'm fully fueled to begin pushing again.

Again, I'm sorry I've disappointed you.

I'll wave at you from the top of one of my hills. Because that's where I'm headed.

Thank you again and God bless each of you.

The others are leading you in a way that I can't. They have experience and wisdom that is priceless... and you are doing the hard work. And, L4, it IS very hard work.

Persistent. Patient. Humble. Caring. Open. Honest.

You are all of these. L4, and more. You CAN do this.

Love to you from Minnesota.

I know what I wrote above, but I feel I have to respond to this...

Hi, AM. What I wrote was:

That's a different meaning than what you quoted me as saying.

It's not a re-write of our M. It's what I felt before the A (want to read my writings?) and after the A. Not every day, but enough for me to be worried about our relationship.

Of course now, I can't expect H to make me feel love -- especially from him. It's up to me to feel it and show it for the both of us.

I hope you enjoy a nice weekend.

My parents are from that part of the mid-west and we have family in the state of 10,000 lakes. I knew I felt a kinship with you.

Thank you, Roo. I hope you're celebrating your birthday by celebrating life.

All the best and Go Twins! (My #2 baseball team.)

Looking, I didn't see a woman sipping bad coffee, inhaling fumes. I saw a woman looking at the mao, looking at the road, trying to remember which landmarks she saw, to figure out where she was. And bravely coming to the one place that would hold her to task, make sure she figured it out before she got back to the car. Because you and your family are that important.

I'm glad to know you.

Hi Looking4!!!

I just showed your last post to Mrs.Flint and she had tears in her eyes...

She said, "You know I think she's starting to understand"...

She knows what you are going through...

Far more than I ever could...

I think Mrs.Flint is right.

You just made both of us soooo proud of you.

Everyone makes mistakes, it's what you do afterward that shows who you are...

Well done.

Jim

Part of what is being required is honesty. Your being honest with your thinking, knowing that you may receive a slap in the face, but you still do it, and still you continue to persevere.
You are stronger than you think, and this is what has gotten you this far. You most certainly can go the distance L4.

I loved reading this ...
L4, this is petro.

L4,

I understand the difference in what you wrote. I think it is easy to get focused in on the day-to-day life and interactions and to lose the big picture. Maybe I was projecting what I often see as a re-write of our M and my H's re-write of the A and it often seems as if none of it is really what either one of us is feeling.

One of the things I have had to learn is that the feelings follow actions and if H and I are acting with care for each other, the loving feelings will be there.

I am sorry you are feeling bad right now, but it would be much more bothersome if you were not feeling anything or were feeling entitled to R (without taking positive steps yourself). You seem so thoughtful in many of your posts and I continue to be so hopeful for you and your M.

Sorry. I have not expressed myself clearly at all here.

AM

Good morning L4!

Frustrating as heck, isn't it?

Been there, done that...and still have to watch out for it.

Boy can I relate to a lot of what you have been sharing here. I can especially relate to that feeling of not getting after all this giving. No matter how "wrong" it is, it is still a very normal, human feeling. And even today, I still have to have a talk with myself about not slipping back into that...give to get. I also have to remind myself that being the best I can be...best wife, friend, partner...is not dependent on what my H does to inspire that in me.

I want to be the best I can be and no one has influence over that but me. It should not matter what someone else does or is for me to be my very best...try my very best. And here is an added bonus...even if no one else acknowledges all my hard work, I can. I can pat myself on the back. I can give myself a little cheer. I can be very proud of myself. And I've got to tell you, being the best you can be, working your tush off to reach for that...it does amazing things reconciling your relationship with you. Because if you are like me, you've basically destroyed that relationship too. And it is hard, very hard, to find the courage and strength and energy to reconcile your relationship with your H while you constantly beat yourself up and drag that dead body of who you were around with you.

So, be the best you can be...the best you want to be and I promise, things will start to fall into place for you.

Okay, the exercise thing. Oh boy! Another one of those things that is so hard to do when you feel so bad about yourself. When you don't like you, it's really hard to take care of you. Been there, done that. I can also relate to your comment about not losing the weight as a test of your H. Tell me if I'm close to what you are thinking...you want your H to love you, want you for you, period. You want to know if you, your heart and soul, are enough for your H or do you have to look a certain way, be a certain way for your H to love and want you. Oh what a jump start that would be for you to exercise and take care of yourself and look all pretty. I mean, if your H loved you for you without any buts...wouldn't that inspire you to get all gorgeous for him.

Am I close? I don't know, but that is certainly how I felt.

Here is the thing about exercise. First, make it a "have to" like brushing your teeth. It is not an option, it is a have to. Second, it does not have to be a huge time commitment. If you exercise, any type of exercise, just 30 minutes a day...it will begin to show. Yeah, it may not show as quickly as it would if you were exercising an hour or hour and half a day...but let's be realistic...moms just don't have that time. So 30 minutes every day. Third, in addition to your 30 minutes do activities with your children that get you moving...ride bikes, go on nature walks, swim, kayak, dance to music, etc. This is just gravy.

As for the food...you are just going to have to train yourself here by sheer force of will. Have the foods that are good for you available...all clean, cut up and bagged. Remind yourself that you are not going to undo that exercising you just did by eating the # of calories you just burned. If you have to have it, have a bite or two and not the whole thing and then walk away to change your focus. Get creative with your meals. Find your new favorites. Make it exciting.

Work on taking care of yourself through exercise and nutrition and not only will your body get healthy...your mind will too. It will have such a healing affect on your relationship with you. And as a bonus, your H will reap the rewards too.

I know this is a trigger for you and possibly your H, but it is something you are just going to have to do. You know how you are working on building your trust back with your H...this is another step in that. You are going to have to show yourself and your H that this is good, that this is for you and for him. Work through the triggers of it and make it a positive again.

And, you are going to love this, exercising will help with those haunted sleepless nights. I can not tell you how many nights I have laid awake, reliving what I did, beating myself up, crying over the past and scared of the future. The only thing that helped me and still helps me with this is exercising. Being active, pushing my body...what a sleep aid.

As for the SF and the rejection you feel...which in turn makes you feel unloved and undesired by your H...all this healthy living could be part of your answer here. Being fit and healthy and comfortable in your own skin really does make a person irresistible. So another possible added bonus is that this may inspire your H if you know what I mean.

Also, don't give up on initiating SF with him. I know rejection can do a number on you, but try not to focus on the rejection itself but the reason for the rejection. His mind movies may be overwhelming for him. Or he may need for you to prove over and over again that you truly do want him. Or he may feel inadequate and just can't. So, you keep trying and prove to him that you do want him and only him. Show him the love life you want to share with him.

And seriously, quit beating yourself up about not doing this perfectly out of the gate. No one does. It is a learning experience. Trial and error. You do your best and when you make a mistake or have normal "I can't do this" thought, you make it a learning experience and proceed forward again.

You are doing good L4 and you want to do better...these are the keys to success.