Ok ok ok...

I'm a real mess today. I've read your posts and I know that I need to get NC between my WW and the OM. I know this. I can do this. I really don't give a d@mn about OM. This is war.
It's just that my WS is hitting me with D questions, like last night "have you looked into getting YOUR house refinanced?", and "I would like to see your retirement statements." See what I'm talking about?! As optin1 stated; If I set-off a nuclear explosion NOW what will my chances for R be?! Is that the plan?!

I'm so stressed I didn't sleep last night at all. I had planned to go directly to their big boss and pull the trigger, but I'll admit, with things so negative around my house, HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY HELP NOW?!

Yes, I know it has to be done. My investigation indicates that the A is over (her mood, her returning "secret" cell phone, spies, texts that indicate she "lost her best friend"), BUT I KNOW THIS COULD BE TEMP THING UNLESS NC!

optin1, tried to talk to her, she doesn't "want to go there". She says "that is in the past". She doesn't want to talk about "us". She has checked out...
My only option at this time is that...time. Drag my feet. I'm not filing. I don't plan to refinance the house.
I'll keep trying to talk to her...she is just SO distant to me...am I expecting too much too soon? How do continue combating this? Stay the plan?!

I am in so much pain today. I can't stop shaking. I truly am a take-charge person but I am so scared of making the wrong move, I've made so many.

Calm down. She is just doing typical Change Back! behavior. Scrambling for anything and everything that she can think to throw at you to make you STOP interfering between her and OM. It is desperation.

That means it's working! Celebrate that!

Every thing she brings up, just smile at her and say "I love you, honey. Would you like a cookie?" Refuse to get dragged into any conversation about anything but her and NC with OM.

It is THIS kind of man who gets his wife back. It truly is.

catperson,

Thank you.

I did go though the posts about the "Babble". She is all over that crap, so much is word for word it's almost comical. Also, she is re-writing history. What can I say/do to get his moving in the right direction, just stay the course?

It's just that she is SO FOCUSED on leaving. Is this typical behavior too? I've never seen her so determined in my life.

Thanks for your words of support. I thought I could be strong but I'm seeing that I need all the help I can get...today is a very low "roller-coaster" day...need a little help getting up the hill.

-TC

Just remember that, until she stops seeing OM, nothing much else matters. It makes no sense to talk to her while she is still seeing him - she is still an addict. Have you ever tried to reason with an addict? All they think about is their next hit.

Yes, Plan A.

But move heaven and earth to stop the affair.

Did you expose?

Telling us that you need to expose is not exposing WW's affair.

Your ship has been torpedo. You cry why me. Yet you refuse to turn on the bilge pumps (expose).

I dont think you are expecting too much in asking her to talk to you. Talk about anything. Not about the affair or relationships. Just anything to get you both started. For the sake of your kids. Why does it have to about us ? Why cant it be about what she has on her mind or on your mind ? About how much you are hurt by this. She is not willing to be a listener ?

I know this is difficult BUT keep trying and continue on PLAN A. Stay calm.

Does she understand that you both play a huge role in your kids' lives no matter what comes out of this ? Oh, I forgot. She is still in major fog. She cant see anything beyond 2 inches.

Here is something you can learn from me and others. Dont make any decisions that will make your recovery potentially difficult. I will leave it upto to make that call on work-exposure. Ask her to respect you and your kids and cut the affair as you both work through this. Have her tell you everyday that she has total NC with OM. Can she do that atleast ?

I see positives..such as she saying she lost her best friend (yeah f*g right). My wife said that same thing. I wish she had said she lost her best f* buddy. How can they be so naive ? Your goal is to get your wife to go through major withdrawl. And you expedite that by following Plan A.

One dilema is she doesn't want to try to work through this. Like I said, I'm dealing with someone who has already "checked out". That is my other uphill battle. I'll keep "gently" moving towards changing her mind, but Lord knows how long that might take.

optin1: Thank you for the confidence, I'm going to stop whining and keep trying. I really needed a boost today.

As far as NC, I will ask, but even if she does try to comply, they work together practicality the same shift everyday. I don't see anyway they could not come in contact with each other...

No excuses, I'm going to have to expose it. Short of having her quit, it's the only way to break the addiction...

optin1: I'll try it your way today, but if I don't get anything but a satisfactory answer, I'll be calling her their Boss ASAP.

TR and catperson: I'm sorry I'm being a wimp, I just didn't want to make things worse than what they already are...but you are right, they are already the worse they can be...

thanks.

Especially if they work together!

You realize, right, that you have to tell their bosses and the company's HR division?

TC,

The beauty of Plan A is that it is YOUR plan. It isn't dependent on anything she does or does not do whether in response to what you do or independently of what you do.

Plan A does NOT try to educate her into doing the right thing.
Plan A does NOT try to manipulate her into doing the right thing.
Plan A does NOT require that she buy into trying to save the marriage.
Plan A does NOT require an end to the affair for you to begin acting.
Plan A does NOT require anything from her at all.
Plan A is NOT about whether or not she wants to try to save the marriage but only about whether or not YOU are willing to try.
Plan A does NOT require input from her or that you convince her of anything at all.

Plan A:

Identify her top ENs (3 -5) and develop a specific plan to meet them as much as she allows. This makes deposits into her Love Bank thereby raising her feelings for you into a place where she DOES care about you and WANTS to be with you.

Identify Love Busters that you might knowingly or unknowingly commit to avoid undoing anything good that you might pick up by meeting her ENs. Get rid of ALL Love Busters by you.

Expose the affair to those closest to her or in the position to put the most pressure on her/OM and the affair itself. The enemy of your marriage is NOT your WW. It is NOT OM. The enemy of your marriage is THE AFFAIR. Attack the affair and not her. Don't bother telling her how OM is bad, she won't hear it. (Goes back to trying to educate her)

Plan A assembles these three things in order to make the affair less attractive and you more attractive. It really is simple positive and negative reinforcement. Give her what she needs/make it unpleasurable to get it from OM and more pleasurable to get it from you. Make TC the BEST TC that can be and don't worry about what she says.

She fell in love with you once. Find that guy and bring him back into her life. You take care of YOUR end of Plan A and try to do it no matter what she does for as long as you can. If after some predetermined time (3 months or so) she isn't responding at all, we'll talk Plan B.

Mark

Mark knows what he is talking about. He is a good man. He would never intentionally give you bad advice.

You can go to the bank with what he says.

Happy Mother's Day?

First off, Mark, thank you.
I printed off your response and I keep it in my pocket. I read it several time a day when I need reinforcement. It keeps me positive. It makes me understand what Plan A is about.

Thank you so much.

I identified what I believed were her 5 EN's and tried to avoid any LB's. Although i have failed in the one thing I believe is her biggest complaint: my control (and the fact that I track everything she does).

Now, I know that is my right to know what she is up to, but this has caused an unbelievable amount of conflict! This "control" thing is the reason she told me this evening "I am never coming back to you. Once I am gone, I am never coming back. I can't live under your control anymore. Stay out of my private life."

Her fear of my "control" is her MAIN reason for leaving me!

This past week, I followed option1's plan to back off of checking her cell phone (she got another "secret phone" I found today), her emails, following, etc. to prove to her that "I'm not keeping her under a microscope." It killed me not knowing what she was up to, but I wanted to show her that I wasn't controlling her. Now I'm kind of at the end of my rope...
Her management is aware of the A (I don't know if she knows that yet, fallout probably tomorrow), the OM's BS is aware of what is going on, her parents know, my children know, etc.

She is still at home until the children finish school (end of May) but this is killing me! I plan to continue Plan A but I'm really down right now...she left to go out with "friends" this evening (on a Sunday?) and told me she "may not" be home tonight. I asked her "what kind of example are you setting for the girls?" No response.

How do I fix a "control" issue? Every time I check on her, find out her secret dealings, etc. it causes a huge blow-up and it makes her impossible to be around! She even said (in a similar way) I withdraw way more love units then I deposit.

Help. I feel like the last man on sinking ship...

I'm sorry but this is complete affair speaking! You HAVE to watch her, her new phone is proof of it!

LET her leave. Let her lose her children. Jeez. Why do BSs get so scared of making their WSs mad?! LET HER KNOW what she is throwing away! Let her know that you are tracking - and saving as proof - her every move. And until she is willing to NC, you will treat her like an enemy spy. She is HURTING your family!

Surely you are at least following her tonight to find out where she goes?!

Verifying if their is an affair, contact, is not controling. Forcing WW to do something, or not do something as carry on her affair is controlling.

WW fog speak to a BH that he is controlling is baloney, to get the BH to stop him from catching WW in an affair.

WW is defending her entitlement to secrecy, not privacy.

"You are too controlling" is your WW's take on the marital issues.

Why play by a wayward's rules? Why do you accept her assessment? Don't! It's just plain wrong.

Stop worrying about being controlling, because you're not. You are entitled to knowledge about your own life, including details of your W's affair.

I took catperson's advice and decided to follow her.
I couldn't leave when she did, as I have the children at home, but I do know where the OM lives and I do know his wife and family where out of town this weekend. I went by their place around 10:00 pm but did not see anyone. I returned around 3:00 am because I knew he had to be at work at 4:30 am.
On cue, he left at 3:45 am but I did not see her. Her car was not in the garage or in the street.

Right now I don't have concrete proof this A is still going. Her comments about losing her best friend, etc. and the OM's BS conversations to me about how the OM is going to counseling etc. seem to indicate that it has cooled off, but this new "secret cell phone" makes me wonder. It could just be her way of knowing I can't track this new phone...yet.

TC, glad to hear your update. Hang in there man. Look, on the bright side, you have OM's wife on your side. I hope you guys keep sharing some of the information to make sure the waywards know they are being watched....all the time.

About controlling. I think you got great advice. It is not controlling when you ask her "did you talk to the OM today ? If so, what did you talk about ?". Tell her YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE....If she thinks that is controlling....that is fine...By the way, say that with calm voice. Look her in the eye. No yelling, no angry outburts. I know it is easier said than done.

I have a question for you. Is there anyway you can get your wife to watch FIREPROOF with you ? My wife and I saw that couple of days ago. It is a 2 hr movie. Movie is absolutely stunning.

In the meantime, continue on your Plan A. Even if she leaves you, she will remember what a good husband (as the great Dr Harley said in his book) you could be.

Do you put a voice activate recorder in her car ? I think you get them cheap at Staples or one of those stores. Might be worth looking into.

50/50 Day

Man, things can look so bad and then end on a better note.
This morning the eldest daughter figured out that her Mother (WW) didn't come home last night. Fell apart. Wanted to know where she was, and why was she doing this to us?
I wouldn't lie to her, but I honestly didn't know where she was (I tried to find out).
I text my WW and told here how it was ONE thing to destroy me, but now she was destroying the children, and I wouldn't stand for that. I waited and then text her that "Never mind, sorry for bugging you" because I figured she didn't care. She immediately text me back that she was sorry and she would call as soon as she had a break (remember, she works very early in a large metro airport).
She called as I was taking DD to school. When she asked to talk to DD, I handed her the cell and DD screamed "Why didn't you come home last night?" WW started in the Fog-speak "It's my business, etc. etc." DD hung up on her.
DD turned to me and said "Dad, why haven't you just kicked her a$$ out?" I let her slide on the language. "Because I still love her, and I want to work things out" I said.
"Why, she obviously doesn't love you or US!" she said.
I had to hold back the tears.
WW called after I had dropped the DD off at school. After a few minutes of tense debate, she informed me that it was none of my business where she was, blah blah blah. She then said, I need you to understand this, I am NOT COMING BACK TO YOU.
This didn't sink in. She told me she had to go but would call back in a short while. I continued on to the office.

About an hour later, she called again. Her voice was extremely calm and she was very direct. She told me that she was sorry about last evening, it was a mistake to stay out all night. She also said that she felt that she had to be blunt, but she wanted to make sure I knew that it was over. That she would not consider trying to save our marriage. Normally, I would have taken this as just a glitch, but her calm demeanor and directness in her voice made me think otherwise.

I felt it was time to throw in the towel.
I felt completely defeated. It was over, BUT at least I tried.
We had agreed to meet that afternoon to discuss a few details but I was pretty much out of it.

Needless to say, it was a long, miserable afternoon.

At 3:30 I meet her in a local park clubhouse where the children take advanced math classes. As I sat in the car with her, she said, you wanted to talk? At this point, I thought I might as well give her everything that was on my chest.
Remembering everyone's advice and comments, plus looking her in the eye and speaking in a low, clear voice, I told her EXACTLY HOW I FELT. AND WHY I WAS DOING WHAT I WAS DOING.
I don't remember everything I said, but she never said a word. She just looked at me. I talked for 45 minutes about why I snooped, why I wanted to break up her affair, what an affair REALLY was, how she was destroying the family, how she hurt the girls and me, why I felt that hurting them was the last straw. How I knew what went wrong, and how we could address them together.
She finally commented that she COULD have maybe agreed to trying to save our marriage until the day I went to the airport and confronted the OM and exposed the A to her colleagues. She said after that, she knew she could never forgive me.
I explained WHY I did it, to somehow shake her out of the fog of the fantasy A and see it for what it really was, an illusion of lies. She didn't understand, she said it just made her angry with me.
We cut the conversation off when the children arrived. I waited for the eldest DD and then went home. While in the kitchen, helping to prepare dinner, she came up along the side of me and said "I am really sorry. I believe I would have done the same thing if I was in your shoes."

You know, I still don't know where I stand. I'll take this as a little victory. We have agreed that she will stay until the children are out of school, and are working on a set of "Ground rules" for both of us. One of mine is NC, No Overnights, etc.

I don't know, maybe there still is a chance...
I plan to continue Plan A while she is still here. If anything, we have spoke more about our issues and problems in the last week or two than we have in the last 22 years.
I think that is a good thing.

I'll keep posting, thank you for all of your great advice.

This morning I am optimistic. She left for the airport at her normal time, I didn't smell her perfume in the bathroom, I know this is weird, but she didn't floss her teeth. Before she had taken EXTRA care of her oral hygiene but hasn't gone that distance the last couple of days. Isn't strange what you pick up on?

As I crawled into our bed (we swap the couch/bed) I could smell her scent/ It was a good scent. It was very comforting.
I was able to sleep a little, unlike the last couple of weeks.

I know I'm not out of the woods, but after the intense pressure I've been under this little "high" is certainly appreciated. I need to formulate my Plan A strategy so I can hit the ground running this afternoon @ 110 percent.

If this A has really started to dissolve (as I believe it has) what can I do to start putting the ball in my court?
I am working really hard on my LB's.
I keep Mark's list in my pocket about Plan A.
I plan to use some of optin1's ideas as soon as I feel I can.
What else can I do?

I'd like to keep on this "high" if I can!

Thank you everyone!

What can you do?

Pack all her clothes up, put the suitcases on the driveway, and change the locks. Leave a note on her suitcase that says "When you are ready to commit to No Contact with any other man, for the rest of our marriage, I MAY consider living in the same house with you. Until then, since it is YOU who is choosing a man outside your marriage, you can live outside our home."

Nothing else is going to wake her up. Yes, you can Plan A. But you don't have to accept her showing her children what an affair is in their own house.

I should add, everyone is going to jump on me for saying this, and if she wanted to stay, you can't do much legally, and it's harder to do Plan A when you're separated, but as it is, it looks like she has no respect for you. Why should she try to work on anything, when you're just a milquetoast and there's this hot exciting guy flirting with her? She needs to miss you or at least worry about losing you. JMO