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He knows everything about my cheating and his W and he are very much friends of our M. If these folks already know everything, H will see it as manipulation because that's what it is. If these folks already know, I'm sure H and BF are already chatting it up when they are together.
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Stepping down from my soap box!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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It's been asked by a few here if H has a confidant who might be able to nudge H toward getting help. I can't remember who said rather recently that maybe I could enlist a trusted friend to engage H about what may be going on in H's head.
I am not and would not discuss our M with this BF, tst, nor any man other than my father who supports our M. This BF is aware of our problems by observing our M over the many years he's known us. He was also among the first H told about my cheating so he knows all of that dirt too.
My thought was to call BF, and ask if he'd been willing to poke around H's brain and see where H is. I do not need to know the substance of the conversation and wouldn't ask for it. I'd just want to know from the BF's perspective if any progress toward healing has happened. Or if he might be able to convince H that he needs outside (preferably professional) help in dealing with my betrayals.
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Stepping down from my soap box! Good to see you here, tst. It's been a while. I'll leave it be then and keep the status quo.
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H could still take it badly but given his "stuckness" I'd risk it because it's done out of care. BR, with all due respect, this is one time I must strongly disagree...... Given L4's H's current state of mind, this is not just a risk, this would easily be seen as a blatent assult that would undo everything L4 has been verbally saying that she would NOT do. I realize that her BH may see it as an assault that's why I warned that he might take it that way. Is she willing to risk it knowing that is a strong possibility? But I also think at some point L4 will have do what she can to help BH regardless of the consequences to her. Is this the time? I don't know. But there were times in my own R that I was willing to do things for H given the "greater good" even if he ended up hating me for it and we ended up divorced.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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My thought was to call BF, and ask if he'd been willing to poke around H's brain and see where H is. I do not need to know the substance of the conversation and wouldn't ask for it. I'd just want to know from the BF's perspective if any progress toward healing has happened. Or if he might be able to convince H that he needs outside (preferably professional) help in dealing with my betrayals. L4 I wouldn't go that route either. BF doesn't need to convince H of anything. He can just be an ear. I wouldn't ask BF to do anything. Maybe just a casual mention that you are concerned about BH and thank BF for taking him out because he needs a break. Plant a seed but don't get carried away.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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BR, I love reading your posts and I do see where you are going with this one.
I just think it is very unadvisable for a WW to violate ANY EP's......
L4, keeping in mind that H may never re-engage.... are you willing to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes or ?... Do you have a mental timeline that you feel would be OK to call it quits? You will give it your best for _______ amount of time, and you'll feel free to move on?
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Well thank ya sir. Right back at ya.
L4 are you there?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I see it going this way:
L4 to BF or BFW: "Hey, will you guys are talking tonight, ask him whats wrong with the marriage/L4/"whatever fill in the blank"
BF to MrL4: "Hey, what up with..."
MrL4: Did L4 put you up to that? She's a real PITA, and always wanted to CONTROL EVERYTHING BUT HERSELF!!!"
Another case of L4 wanting to control an outcome she CAN"T Control.
Your BS may wax poetic all evening with BF about your M. If so, then that would be a good thing. He may spend the entire evening bashing you, or just talking sports. That is his preogotive, Its his night out. The evening wasn't POJA'ed, and many other problems with the time apart, but that's to be fixed, if MR L4 gets on board.
NOT a good idea to try in get them to speak about a particular issue. This will only backfire.
L4 can confirm with BFW that MrL4 has arrived and is there.
LG
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L4, keeping in mind that H may never re-engage.... To be fair, H is engaged, tst. Much more than a year ago but no as much as 3 months ago. He's not engaged as I know I need him to be in order to have that recovered, solid M with romantic love that I so desparately want. I will eventually need to know if H will commit to recovering this M or not. But I'm waiting for him to heal since that must come first. Now for all I know, he's healed. Or perhaps he's far from it. I simply don't know what signs to look for to gauge if it's happened or is even in progress. I ask him nearly every day what I can do for him and he says, "Nothing," or "I don't know." This makes me believe it's still in progress. Where on that road to healing he is, I have no idea. For me it has been all about him. I want to know if/when it can be about us. As for a timeline... I'll have get back to you on that. It tends to vary on the day, but usually my heart says tomorrow while my head says many months from now. Which do I listen to?
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Jim, Zelmo, Mark, and others... I will respond to you later tonight. Promise. Just taking on the easy ones between work emails.
Me (FWW): 45
BH: 46
M: 11/94
PA: 2/08 (4 mos)
Confessed: 10/08
DS10
DD8
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Now for all I know, he's healed A big negative on that.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I take it PITA is a bad thing? <Going to text translator to look this up.> I'm here b_r, for just a bit more then off when kidlettes get home. H is leaving in an hour. I just tried to give him some spontaneous "attention" but he's too busy with work. Oh well. The phone call will not be made. He needs his guys' time out. I was just feeling it out since someone had suggested earlier that I recruit a friend to get H thinking and moving. Hopefully BF and he will have good conversaiton about whatever they want and H will have a great evening. I'll text him while he's out tonight just so he knows I'm thinking of him. The contents of that text will be only for his eyes. 
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I'll swing by later. Off to pick up my kiddos.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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usually my heart says tomorrow while my head says many months from now.
Which do I listen to? Hmmmm...  Which one did you listen to to get into an affair? :MrEEk: Not trying to be mean, just making an observation and asking a question...
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Which one did you listen to to get into an affair? My heart. And I believe the next response just might be... "And look where that got ya." It was also my heart that guided me toward H in the first place. That and the fact that I was highly attracted to him. So now what?
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20 And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. 21 For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. 23 All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.” Mark 7:20-23 (NLT) 9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?Jeremiah 17:9 (New International Version) 24 But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward.Jeremiah 7:24 (New International Version) But... 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.Matthew 22:37 (New International Version) 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding Proverbs 3:5 (New International Version) 11 Light is shed upon the righteous
and joy on the upright in heart Psalm 97:11 (NIV) 2 My soul yearns, even faints,
for the courts of the LORD;
my heart and my flesh cry out
for the living God. Psalm 84:2(NIV) 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:10 (New American Standard Bible) And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 (New King James Version) 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God.
Renew a loyal spirit within me...
17 The sacrifice you desire is a broken spirit.
You will not reject a broken and repentant heart, O God. Psalm 51 (New Living Translation) Don't follow your heart... LEAD IT! Mark
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As for a timeline... I'll have get back to you on that. It tends to vary on the day, but usually my heart says tomorrow while my head says many months from now.
Which do I listen to? There's always the kidney. 
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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LOL at the kidney V.  Is BH gone out with his friend by now and this is all moot at this point? If not, I'd wait as tst and LG said. Sis's party and the concert are still fresh, his job stress...just let him go out and see what unfolds.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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LOL at the kidney V. No, seriously! I don't think very much in gray terms, wish I could though. The kidney filters out the bad and keeps the good right? Sometimes I have to filter out the bad in a situation, and see how much good there is left, and can I live with what's left in the strainer. Simple I know, that's me. :crosseyedcrazy:
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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