Well, while you're waiting, arm yourself by reading up about manipulation. That's what your H has been doing to you. If you can learn about it, you can recognize it, and you can arm yourself against it.

Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men is a great place to start. It may not all match your H, but parts of it will. It will show you how people get what they want by knowing your weaknesses and using them against you.

Another great book, quick little read, is The Dance of Anger. It's about not being the perpetual Giver.

Thanks, Cat! I'm going to see what articles I can find online.

Woe is me. I am such a fricking optimist, I make myself sick!

We talked more last night - he is so very disconnected from me. He doesn't want any affection, no sex, notes and things to read are more pressure. I told him that those were all things that could help us find the way back to each other. He doesn't know if he cares, or if he wants us back together. He just wants me to leave him alone.

I can't get him to understand that continuing to be apart is not going to make things any better. He thinks it will.

I'm not going to die of old age - I'm going to die of a broken heart.

My H was like that. I know how much that hurts and sucks the life right out of you... it sucks the colors out of the flowers, it's so draining. Unfortunately, you CAN'T be pushy about affection because while you are using it to try to pull him TOWARD you, he is feeling pulled and is thus pulling backward (away). Keep up on RC, stand tall and proud around him, even if you are faking. Seriously, the hardest but most effective steps are appearing strong and not desperate. If you are crying around him alot, you need to be aware that it kinda looks pathetic. Seriously, you are DATING. Is pathetic, desperate and teary attractive? Nope. You MUST get it together if you want any hope of getting to recovery. Anti-depressants are a GREAT help, because it is so easy to feel like you are in a pit with slick walls, and a mild anti-dep can help give you a stool to stand on so you can at least SEE out. That's the best way I can say it. If you feel like you're really powerless to the tears, consider an anti-d... sure, you'll still cry at times, but it won't be so incredibly tissue-paper-thin near the surface all.the.time.

Have you completed NUCLEAR exposure? Seriously, I think you got (or perhaps allowed) yourself to be skeeerewed on that lie detector, because he's CLEARLY *at least* EAing. I know it's comforting to think they weren't actually an A, but denial is NOT beautiful riverfront property. Get real and get nuclear. While she's in the can is the PERFECT time to go nuke. GET HER H!!!! Get him in on your team. Nuke, nuke, nuke. Family and adopted family, NUKE NUKE NUKE. Tell them ALL.

All the while, Plan A. RC up the ying yang. Catch him at a good moment and get the ENQ from him, without waiting for him to meet yours. Start reading up on things he likes so you can better converse. Don't be "openly affectionate" (touchy, SFy, etc) but be covertly affectionate like doing the little things. Does he like some particular food? Make it. My H loves Indian food and rice. I bought a rice cookbook and learned that Target actually has Indian meal kits. (To throw it on real thick, I made sure the packages disappeared too, so it looked like I really went out of my way LOL) Etc. Etc. Etc.

And I have a real strategy question. Is there a place he can go if he were to need to move out? Because if there really isn't, you're well primed to give him the big 2x4, after a real good plan A. You can do what I did, "You really seem to want out? OK. Shall I go get boxes? I'll help you pack. I don't want you to go, but I will help you pack if that is what is needed here. I WON'T be your whipping post. I won't be openly disrespected. If you're so committed to being distancing and disrespectful, then OUT YOU CAN GO. Shall I go get boxes?"

I've been working on distanting myself some. I always used to tell H that I loved him when we went to bed. ALWAYS. Now, I tell him every few nights. I haven't invited myself anywhere, but he's asked me to go with him a few times. Yesterday, he went to the BAR around 3, and I wasn't invited. Around 6, I decided I wanted a drink or two and went to another bar. I tried to call and tell him, but he didn't pickup. He called me about an hour later and was home. So I went home. He hasn't asked why I went there, and he if does, I'll tell him I was tired of sitting home alone and wanted a drink. He'll probably ask why I didn't go to the BAR where he was, and I'll say I didn't want to intrude. I'm going to keep doing that, too. I don't get weepy as much as I was, either. Still at Plan A.

OWH is still out of town, as soon as he returns, I'll nuke him. I should have had the lie detector guy ask about an EA; I know that's what it is to a great extent.

I met him for RC today, and he helped me with my techniques. I've been listening to what he says and was able to demonstrate that I was listening today. After, he said he was going to the BAR, are you going home? I said yes, I guess so. He told me I was welcome to come to the BAR if I wanted. DUH! We went for hamburgers after that and had some good conversation at both places. The speedway should be opening soon, and that's another RC we both enjoy. (And one of my previous abandonments.)

I asked him for a date for next Saturday, he's going to let me know.

He could go to his best friend's house if necessary, but it's not the cleanest place in the world, and he doesn't really want to. I'm thinking that after OW gets out of the clink will be a good time to that, if she doesn't write the letter.

Do you ever get past the fear that he's just trying to let you down easy, and is going to ask for a D in the future?

I'm seeing some serious red flags in your handling of this.

1. Expecting the OW to do anything that you expect her to do. By sending her that letter, you just let her know that you consider her to be a serious threat.

2. Your plan to lie to your WH if the OW tells him about the letter. If you want him to be open and honest with you, you need to also be open and honest with him.

3. Both of the above things are your attempts at manipulating things. That will not work.

4. Do not try to educate your WH. It's a waste of time.

What you should be doing is a true Plan A, which involves none of the things I've listed. You should be SHOWING your husband that you can be the wife he wants and needs. You should be making your home a welcoming place where he enjoys being. Cut out the relationship talks, for the most part, and be the woman he fell in love with. Make being with you a fun and happy time.

Live your life with integrity. I'd be willing to bet that he sees manipulation from you and that it totally turns him off. Show him that you've changed.

Leave the OW alone. Work on yourself, and let your love for your husband shine through your actions.

You cannot manipulate your husband into being in love with you again. You have to be the wife he wants.

Figure out what his ENs are and meet them consistently.

lf, can I make a suggestion?

I think your sitch would be a lot better if the two of you - or you, at least - replaced going to bars and having drinks with something that actually HELPS your situation. Like going for a walk, painting a picture, starting a craft, reading a book, joining a club, going to the gym, meeting up with friends...ANYTHING but making alcohol a weekly if not daily event. I speak from experience that it does nothing but turn everything else to dust and severely reduce your chances at happiness.

Just think how much more attractive you'd be, mentally and physically, if you had replaced that alcohol with water.

JMHO

Clueless, I have decided to own up if the letter to the OW is blamed on me. I also admitted to putting the gps on his phone.

I have not asked him to take the ENQ yet, but I do know some of his important ENs are attention, RC, conversation and SF. I've been working on all of those, especially RC. RC failure is one serious way I let him down. No more.

Do NOT ask him to do the ENQ until he has done the lBQ!

You have to stop the LBs before you can waste time on ENs.

Also, fwiw, I think you should just flat out tell him you wrote the letter. Now that you've done it, you HAVE to be honest about it. If you hide out and hope she won't tell, and she does, nothing you say will make a fig of difference - you'll be a sneak.

Tell him you know she's in jail and you took that opportunity to reclaim your husband, as is your right.

I don't see how lies are going to help you build a strong marriage. Have you read any of Harley's books? If not, you may find it interesting to note that he lists "Openness and Honesty" as an Emotional Need (EN), meaning that when you are honest with your spouse it helps them fall in love with you. He *also* lists Dishonesty as a Love Buster (LB) which means that if you are dishonest, you destroy your spouse's love for you.

I can't recall anything other than honesty that falls into both EN *and* LB categories. It's that powerful.

Please reconsider your decisions to knowingly and maliciously lie to your spouse. Deceit has no place in a marriage.

Cat, I seldom drink in the bars, usually water or soda. If there was any other activity I could get H to do, I would. I know he drinks too much. All I can do is mention my concern about that.

You guys are all right, as always! I will tell him I wrote her a letter, asking her to stay away from him. Stand by for fireworks! He will be seriously pissed; this is a challenge he has taken on and he feels he MUST see it through. Nothing I say will change that, and I have tried! His attitude is that he's trying to help a friend, so what's the big deal.

And your attitude has to be that you're trying to save your marriage!

Gee, which one is more important? Which one is family?

Until you take on this attitude, and use it religiously, he will keep on getting his fix from other people.

If he insists on taking on this challenge, let him know that from this day forward, you will be AT HIS SIDE every step that he takes. EVERYTHING he does for this woman or any other will be done WITH YOU.

Or he can divorce you. There is no in between.

There was a poster here about a year ago, whose husband was 'helping' a girl, and it morphed into she needed to stay at their house, to she needed to stay in their BED! And this poster LET her husband do this, because she woudn't say NO MORE!

fwiw, lf, you say you seldom drink in the bars, but your posts are all about bars and/or drinking. Are you really being honest with yourself about consumption? I know I made excuses and convinced myself it wasn't really 'that much.' Just want to make sure you're not doing the same.

Anyway, it's another area where you have the right to put your foot down. On what planet does getting married include spouses going out to bars WITHOUT their spouses?

This is about YOUR boundaries, not your H's activities.

He knows now that when he has any contact with her, I will be there. Just in case SHE has any ideas, my presence will be a deterrent.

As to letting the OW stay here - over somebody's dead body! I've never been a doormat and I'm too old to start now.

I really don't drink that often. The immediate effects are always nice, but the aftereffects aren't worth it to me. Nor is the possible weight gain, when I've worked so hard to lose 44 pounds!

I hear you about the weight, lol.

Good to hear about sticking by his side. For some reason, I got the sense that you were stepping back.

But what about the going to bars and all? Can't you find some way to change the rut you guys are in, as in new activities, or at least restrictions on how much time you spend in such a dangerous (to marriage) environment?

I wish there was some way to put restrictions in place, Cat. Once the speedway opens, one night a week will be out of play. I don't know what else we could do outside the house. Suggestions are always welcome. I also need to find out about the horseshoe league here, he's very good at that.

I'm trying to put some distance in there, as in not saying I love him every night at bedtime. Waiting for him to make the first move to kiss when coming and going. I'm right there, but not initating all the time. Available, but come and get me, you know?

Well, Whorella got out of jail last night. H is taking her to her AA meeting today, and I'm going with him. We'll see what she has to say.

Things have been good the last few days, although he's had a cold. H has been friendlier and laughing and teasing more. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Did you tell him you wrote the letter?

It will be very telling if your husband's recent positive turn (friendlier, laughing, teasing more) takes a turn for the worse after he sees whorella.

Your H is being so disrespectful to you and the M by doing this - I'm glad you're going with him!

I can't recall - have you asked him not to see her any more? I know he has a "savior" complex, but he could save men and not women. Have you two talked about that? Have you told him how his association with her makes you feel?

Yes, I told him about the letter, and asking her to end contact. He wasn't too happy, but said he could see why I did it.

He ended up taking her by himself, said sometimes I pushed too much. About 12:40 he called and said he was going to drop her at home then go hunting. At 1:00 he still had not left her street (I was hiding).

So I thought, her house is an absolute mess, I'll go by and see if she needs any help. Guess who is walking around in the yard? WH, the lying *astard. He said he was waiting for her to make a schedule of her different meetings for him. When I asked him what he was trying to hide, he said nothing. So, then where's your truck? He said it was parked down the street; it seemed like a good idea not to have it in her driveway. No poop, Sherlock!

He invited ME into HER house! I said no, I want you to leave. He said he'd be home in awhile. When he came home, I asked why he lied to me again. I said that he wasn't a liar when I married him, why he decide it was ok to become one (thanks, WR!). He said because he knows I don't like his relationship with her and it seemed easier to try and hide it.

I told him that lies of omission were just as bad as lies, and asked him not to lie to me anymore. He said ok.

Then he called her to see if she had the schedule ready yet, and she was crying. She told him about the letter too. (Fudging *itch!!) Apparently she just got it. So he's gone to look at the letter, get the schedule and THEN go hunting.

He knows very well how this "friendship" makes me feel, but I'm going to tell him again. I think you're right, Turtle, I expect him to be all closed up to me again when he comes home.

I think I'm going to go plot some murder scenarios.

I'd expose this affair.

He's ignoring your pleas to not see her.
He's responding to her cries of "I need you".
He's lying and making up really poor excuses for "having" to go see her - very frequently!
He's hiding what he can.

He promised to love you and forsake all others... yet he's abandoning you and ignoring your feelings so he can cater to hers.