Thanks lil

I have no intention of going there, much as I'm not to keen on where i am at the moment. I have seen some research siimilar to this before which commented that those that stayed together were not only happier than those that divorced and than they expected to be but were also "happy" ie happier than when the trial started.

I wonder whether there is anything else I need to change about my core values and beliefs that would make it easier.


While circumstances — such as physical abuse — may make divorce a necessary evil, it is still a tragedy, and like any other misfortune, divorce causes pain.
This is the second time in the last few days that I have seen anything to suggest that it might be ok to continue with an M after physical abuse, the other being yesterday when someone mentioned abuse and then a few sentences later commented that peole can change - I brought the 2 sentences together for my own situation, not sure if it was intended to maean that people can become non-abusive but I hope it was.

I have never heard of people turning themselves around after DV as a couple. I'd really like to know if there is anone out there.

I drifted away a bit there didn't I? Well, this is where my train of thought is again.

You have mail

Ok, just been getting my helpful hints from L4s thread. Mark made a very useful post. I


This is the hard bit. If one party is very resentful and doesn't understand POJA and find it so hard to see that they are using DJ and AO and the other member of the party tries to call a halt but the other person doesn't allow it. How do you move on? Maybe lead by example on an issue that isn't quite so distressing and teach the method through doing it, so that once it is well rehearsed on less important topics it can be used on other ones?

And what if the resentful member of the party really can't work out why they have so much anger built up?


The Seven Emotional Trials the Cheater Will Face [/quote]

Do I need to read in to not feeling one fo these emotions I wonder?

I'm post stealing today...

Is this a boy/girl thing? This happens in our house aaaallllll the time. This is one of the things that drives me absolutely crazy. Why does it happen?

The original issue gets sorted but I do stay mad that he has made it about him yet again and that I can't have a bit.

Post stealing.

This use to happen around here too, not with just H but with the teens as well.
One DJ and bam, someone got defensive, and it turned into a ping pong game where nothing got resolved, and everyone was mad. Both H and I are better now since MB with recognizing DJ's with each other. H is actually better than me! The kids, well that's a work in progress. :crosseyedcrazy: With practice of POJA and RH, it's easier to avoid DJ's, stuff doesn't get buried. We empty our garbage truck before it gets too full, IYWIM.

It has always happened with my husband. It has kept me from telling him negative things over the years. I used to think that negative feedback just made him mad. I never could understand it. I am trying to be more honest with him and last night was the first night that I realized that he always has to take the issue from me and make it his own. When I mentioned this to him. I told him: "This isn't about you. You are no longer doing anything wrong. This is my baggage. I just need your help carrying it sometimes when it gets too heavy". He hugged me. He got quiet. He got calmer. I wonder if I got through to him finally.

ST,

Thread thief!

Hi Mark,

Are you able to give any input into any of my thoughts on the posts I've stolen?

pleeeaaaaase?

ST,

I haven't been ignoring you. I will try to get here later to comment if you would like, But I need to read each post and think before posting. If I don't think first, we'll both be in trouble.

Mark

Why read and think, Mark? It's apparently not mandatory around the boards.

ST... Steal all you want. Know that I'll invoice you at the end of the month.

Looking forward to the coming wisdom.

Yep. Though I have to change your "always" to "often" in my case.

Often enough so that I didn't want to make him mad, even though they were my feelings so I didn't understand why he thought he had a right to be angry or sarcastic or belittling -- which is what would happen most of the time. I got to where I didn't share for fear of his response. That brought about self-doubt, resentment, coldness... All ugly things that turned me further and further away from H.

So what has changed? (inside of YOU) What boundaries do you now have that you did not? How do you enforce them now where enforcement was lacking before?

You see part of the trouble you are having in dealing with the verbal tirades from J are the result of boundaries being overstepped and not really knowing how to protect them. If he were to attack you physically, how would you respond? Can you disengage from a volatile conversation without love busting yourself or without simply withdrawing from the relationship? This is really hard stuff, but having a clear boundary is key to almost every single interaction we have with another person.

The thing is that boundaries can only be set by us to define ourselves. We can't define what others will do, only what we will do in response. A boundary to protect our heart, to keep us from cheating, can't be a wall that stops us from all interaction with others. It needs to be a hedge, a marker, a line that is clearly identifiable to us and to those we interact with. It says that inside is my marriage and outside is not. Stepping over the boundary even briefly exposes us to great emotional trauma because when we stray outside of those boundaries that define our relationships, we open ourselves to letting things in that don't belong within that relationship.

In a marriage it is possible to have friends of both sexes. But when we allow someone to enter into the domain of what belongs to the marriage, we give them access to what does not belong to that relationship, but only to the marital relationship.

And within marriage, a boundary cannot define what our spouse will or will not do. I can only define us, our person, our self.


Of course it's a challenge. It's a challenge and a test. It is also a statement of his own boundary. He will not share you with OM or any OM. If you share your heart with OM, J will leave. Clear boundary and clear enforcement of it. (I wouldn't test it if I were you)

So who has more resentment built up right now, J because of the affair or you because you have allowed your boundaries to be obliterated and just stashed the resentment in your heart?

Now THIS is an observation of note. Most guys are fixers and doers. We like to make things right, to change the world rather than let it crumble around our ears. When a woman shares feelings, we see a problem that needs fixing. We analyze it, try to define it and then give advice as to how to fix it.

Of course you women don't want us to fix it. While we seek a solution, you seek validation. You don't need us to fix you, just cry with you, but that isn't how us men usually work.

And as for making the problem our own, when we love someone, have a commitment to care for them and protect them, anything that causes that person harm IS our problem. And that might be part of what is making conversation so difficult.

Men are hunters. Women are gatherers. Send a man to the store for a loaf of bread, what does he come home with? A loaf of bread. (And maybe a magazine or or a 6 pack of beer or a new bass boat, but you have no idea what his reason for going to the store might be, the loaf of bread is what YOU were looking for. He can identify that target and kill it quickly and have plenty of time left for what HE has been looking for.)

A woman doesn't even go to the store for a loaf of bread. She either sends her husband or goes to the store to see what they have, what is on sale or what looks good. (which is why women should never go shopping for groceries while hungry or dieting)

Men identify the prey, track it down, stalk it, kill it and bring it home. Women wander about trying to see what fits with whatever the man is stalking today. They use what is in season, what is available rather than a specific item. (Substitution is possible for almost anything)

Men seek answers. Women seek consensus.

OK. Too many topics in one thread. Too close to getting off work (finally) for the day and a wife I haven't seen since almost 13 hours ago waiting for me at home. (It'll be 14 hours by the time I get home.)

Mark

I love this analogy, I can even relate to it.

wow, a lot happened here while i was asleep.

Thank you Mark

I'll BBL

I really noticed yesterday afternoon when a friend was talking about a girly night out and they started talking to some chaps. It made me feel quite strange, I was horrified and started to educate her on the perils of talking to men on a drunken night out. I knew I'd come quite a way. But I honestly was horrified and shocked that I genuinely was horrified. So something inside me has quite drastically changed. I am aware that I do not even want to go out drinking without J.
At other times: I don't allow myself to get into anything more than polite conversation ie small talk with another man unless in company with J.

This is incredibly hard. I hope that if he was ever physical again I would leave. I must. Disengaging from a volatile conversation is very hard - I am able to say calmly that I would like to come back another time, but he doesn't stop and gets more angry. If I then walk away he gets exceptionally mad and I go back because I'm worried of what he'll do if i don't. If I sit and take it, usually about 2 days later I can't stand him.
mmmm, so we have one boundary that I find hard to set, the ones that led me to become to friendly with OM I have in check. The other boundary is how much of my life I spend on other people and helping them - knowing when to say no.

This is where I struggle with family, I can not choose J over my family and these are the boundaires that could also do with tidying up a bit, a few new plants to fill in the gaps.
Yep, I think maybe I could think a lot harder about this. I am very open ( had you guessed) and although I don't go into relationship talk with gents anymore, I can freely talk about how I feel about anything with anyone.
I agree and understand.


I think I have more resentment, because I allowed my boundaries to be obliterated but I'm not talking so much about my A.


SO what on earth can we do about this? because it drives me abso -flippin - lutely (to quote a friend)mad

Thank you very much Mark for spending your time here. I hope you had a nice evening with your wife.

Hi ST!
I'm glad your weekend is going well so far.(read on another thread)
And yes, we had a good time last night, thanks.

It's nice to have good times, helps to keep us going.

Why were you horrified that you wanted to educate them on this stuff? This seems like a good thing to me.

Sounds like your developing some excelent personal boundries.

When I first started at MB I told a few friends about what I was learning here and although they tolerated my rambles, they really just seemed to be nodding and agreeing with me. Last week a friend came over and told me that her H and her had just admitted to each other they were attracted other people. She asked me to tell her more about MB add EN's. She took HNHN and said they were going to read it. The interesting comment she made to me was "Now I understand why you keep going on about how easy affairs are to get sucked into"

Don't think of it as 'educating' think of it as preventative medicine.

Maybe amazed would be a better choice of word. I was almost dumbstruck by my change. I was aware that I had made changes - but I wasn't aware that it really had become part of me and who I am