Okay.

What's a "bull" night? Or are you tipsy-typing?

That letter sounds fascinating, Vittoria. I love historical stuff and having such a personal twist... That's cool.

Ladies... I can't even imagine what mushy peas would taste like. Anything like those puke-green colored peas that come in a can and mush in your mouth? I really hate those.

(This has become quite the smorgesborg thread of interesting cuisine from around the world.)

These mushy peas were by themselves, must be why they looked like they did.

That one you will have to figure out yourself.

The cousin also mentioned because of the railroad, the land around him will be bought right up for crops and the area will be known as the 'Granary' something or other, oh my mind is failing ....

I think I might be fading soon.......

No.

Yes.

No.

Crap. More thinkin' that I have to do.

oh just think of it as a fun brain teaser, if there's any room for those
you know L4 you do a really good job of replying to everyone, that takes time and effort, I know it must to be appreciated.

I think ST ditched on us

Ya. What's her deal-lio?

I'm working on Mark's post now. Everyone here is so genuine with their words to me. The least I can do is respond thoughtfully.

Carry on and good night Irene.

I'm listening.

So what's the magic formula?

Ummmm...

Not to get sidetracked, but you have a similar gift, Mark. And I think I speak for many when I say I'm grateful you choose to share your gift with us.

Not always, but enough to drive me crazy, yes.

Yep. I've lived it.

Actually, I'd rather go through the uncomfortable process of finding a solution, addressing it, taking it on. I don't usually like burying it in hopes it'll go away. Except when it comes to H.

Gotcha.

Getting better at this.

What if one of the two parties doesn't want to try a second or third time? What if one of the individuals isn't interested in finding an enthusiasticaly agreed upon solution?

I know.

So I've heard.

Mine. How, is the question that follows...

That's not a selfish demand, is it?

I did see it, but thanks for adding it here for me as well. I cried too.

Wow.

All this time I've been torn between my head and my heart. Now I have to throw my kidneys and liver into the mix for consideration? Y'all are killing me here.

Anyone still here after all of those pages of catch up?

I know we've had POJA conversations before and it was determined before that H and I probably aren't ready for practicing POJA now, but I want to at least try where I can. So can we analyze another one?

H and I have a partial ownership of a condo in Whistler, B.C. It turns out that our week next February falls during one of the weeks when the Olympics is happening there.

When we learned this a few years back, I said I want to keep the week. At first H did too, but over the last two years as he's learned people are getting huge amounts of money renting their condos, he's changed his mind and wants to rent it out that week.

Two weeks ago H said he's going to put the condo up on Craig's list. I reminded him that I hadn't agreed to that. We each gave our points. I know we could make a lot of money, but how many times in your life do you have accomodations right in the heart of the Olympics? H says we could take the money and use a bit of it to buy tickets for events in and around Vancouver and stay with my cousins outside of town.

Last Monday H said we have to move quickly so that we can find a renter. I said that I still haven't agreed to that. H said, "I don't want to keep it." I said, "For 4 years you've known that I do want to keep it. You initially did too." H said, "I don't now. It's going to be a mess and I have no desire to be stuck there among the crowds."

No decision has been reached, though H says he's just going to do it.

We already have the week. I, in essence, already have want I want and H is not enthusiastic about it. So if we do nothing, and keep discussing and discussing but don't reach an enthusiactic agreement, I get what I want which is 180-degrees from what he wants. This isn't something that we can partially do. The only other option is to sell it. (Which H is threatening to do anyway.)

How do you practice POJA when one of the people already has what s/he wants and the other person wants pretty much the opposite. There really is no compromise on this one, is there? Because we're either all-in or all-out. And I'm already allowing H to make me feel guilty about wanting what I want.

Your answers on this one will be applicable to other situations that we have currently in the loop.

Thanks.

Morning L4. Lots of posts to catch up on today. I hope last night went well for the pair of you and that your H had a good time with his friend. It may well give him a boost.

I cannot give you the "right" answer to the question above. Hopefully, the experienced vets will be able to give you a definitive MB answer. However, I can let you know, as a BS, how I would feel and I hope it will be of some help.

If me and my WH were in this exact situation, I would hope that my WH would concede to me and see the concession as just compensation for the wrongs he had done to me and us. However, I would want to be sure that WH saw the act as something positive in moving the marriage forward, and helping us recover. If it isn't seen as a positive act, then there is a risk that the act of conceding would cause resentment, which is obviously a big no no.

I as the BS would also have to accept it as a positive act of recompense, a way of trying to right some wrongs and I would need to show some sort of "gratitude" for the efforts my WS was making in order to recover the M. Not sure if gratitude is the right word, but I can't seem to think of the right term and I'm in a mad rush.

Now, I'm definitely not saying that the WS should concede on all issues. That would be terrible. However, this is a dilemma in which there doesn't seem to be a compromise and you have said yourself that you cannot POJA it, so in this very difficult circumstance, I would expect the WS to set their needs/wants aside in an effort to make some small amends for the A.

I'll reiterate that this is only my opinion and may not be the MB way, and it probably isn't what you want to hear either L4.

I'll be interested to catch up on the opinions of others because it's probably something we'll all come up against at some point in our recovery.

L4,

He wants to rent the condo.

You want to go to the Olympics that week and stay in the condo.

Two options.

Doesn't leave much room for POJA at all. Either you win or he does.

POJA is not about changing the other person's mind so that they agree with us.

OR about us changing our mind so that we agree with them.

When faced with a pick A or B situation, there are really 4 options available.

A
B
A+B
Neither A nor B

Now the thing is that in this case both A and B is not possible. But that still leave 3 of the four.

You want B, he wants A.

Why do you want to go that week?

Why does he not want to go?

Looking for REAL reasons here and not the obvious or assumed reasons.

Option 3, neither A nor B means you are both without getting your way and both equally unhappy. Doesn't look like POJA to me.

But the thing is, there might be some other option that neither of you has thought of. In this case, you want what you want and he wants what he wants and the two are in opposition directly. Both winning and getting your way will be tough. Neither getting what you want would be easy but not a viable solution really.

And just so you know...You can't apply POJA to HIS decision without his participation.

Try using POJA on where to go for lunch and if it works then try explaining it to him. But if you are the only one trying to implement POJA in your marriage, you can only seek his agreement on YOUR decisions and can't expect it on his side. (It might lead to him agreeing to try POJA in the future though)

Mark

Looking4,

Long posts, eh???

You should have heard the long discussions Mrs.Flint and I had...

But...

She needed to hear the reasons for things...

Dr.Harley also has a long post for you to read...

and reread....

Coping with Infidelity: Resentment (Part 4)

His reply to S.R. dealing with her H resentment:

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse.

"I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R. husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage is winning the argument."

Refusing to deal with your affair and heal from it provides him with the upper hand FOREVER in your relationship...

YOUR job is to bring the marriage back to the middle of the balance scale by providing him the best wife L4 can ever be...

absolutely no resentment from you and NO WITHOLDING ANYTHING from the marriage which includes giving him the same effort at everything you were willing to do for the OM.

Once you have done that Dr.Harley is adamant that you stand up for yourself with boundaries.

Read his words again about 'secondary gain' and what your H is doing and WHY he is doing it.

Glad you are going to call.



God bless.

Jim

The winter Olympics are back already? Time flies...

If H is still willing to go but stay with family instead while making some money, I can't say I blame him. I think that way too. I've live in two cities when the Olympics were going on and honestly it kind of sucked because of the crowds and congestion. Being in the heart of it, there are benefits if you can walk to an event and not hassle with the car, but it was still a headache.

Let just say you kept the week would he even go? If he still went would he be a pill the whole time?
There's no easy answer...there will be resentment by at least one of you if not both. You have to weigh the options of which is the lesser evil I guess. Does his current job situation affect the decision to rent the week?

Now THIS is a POJA type agreement.

When we look at the options before us, we see the obvious choice. All black or all white. POJA seeks the gray or maybe even the blue or red, something neither thought of at first examination of the conflict.

Remember what POJA really says:

Notice that it doesn't say you have to agree on everything only that YOU should not do anything unless your spouse agrees enthusiastically.

It does NOT mean that we will ever get what we want only that we will not engage in IB that kills the love our spouse has for us.

POJA is not about meeting ENs but about avoiding Love Busters.

It isn't a way to feed our Taker but a way to starve him.

Mark

Could you look at it this way: Many folks that write about forgiveness talk about the neccessity of making restitution. I think Judaism is very big on it. It serves two purposes. It helps to alleviate some of the injured party's resentment over your having gotten over on him.
In essence, your H has probably found other women attractive over the years but has forgone the pleasures asscociated with a new romance. You, on the other hand have expierienced these pleasures that he, in reliance on your word, bypassed. So, you owe him a debt, a big one.
Restitution allows the injured party to start feeling as if things are somewaht even.
It also allows you to show some tangible evidence of remorse.
I'm not saying that your H has to get his way forever throughout your marriage. But, at this point, maybe you might want to consider that some of your desires need to go on the back burner in deference to his.

I don't log in for 24 hours and there are 36 posts to read

Mushy pea are truely awful, we can buy them tinned here. Horrible.
But still better than haggis

L4 answered every single post. OMG. I have some serious work to do

Love LG's suggestion, might try it meself one day