Because every human being justifies his own actions, so he can live with them. Even axe murderers think they have a reason to do it.

In your H's mind, he has justified every action he's taken, so much so that you are now the villain. Just accept it cos you can't change it. (sorry)

I am glad you have realized this, because you will not be able to educate him. He is self will run riot and does not care if he has hurt you. If he cared, he would not be in an affair. As you can see, guilting him is completely ineffective. It only makes you look unattractive and drives him away.


But its not either/or. You won't have the marriage if you continue to stay in contact with him and end up in the mental ward. You also run the risk of growing to hate him with this continued contact. It happens very fast and once that happens, it is very hard to turn back.


Agree! This is why Dr Harley recommends only 3-4 WEEKS of Plan A!


Another suggestion would be to keep all this to an absolute minimum by setting up a routine about finances and visitation and only contacting him when it is absolulely essential.

Is there an established visitation schedule? Is there an established financial agreement so that superfluous contact is avoided?

Ideally, contact with him about even these issues should be kept to a bare minimum, maybe 3-4 times a year.

bf, did you see my question about a Plan B letter? Did you send him one?

Charlotte - his feelings do not matter. Only action.

Adjust the filter so that only actions get through to Best!

Just because he's feeling her pain, doesn't mean he's going to stop inflicting it on her! He is a wayward. It's what waywards do.

Hi bf,

First Give yourself a break. This A stuff sucks and is hard.

Write a formal Plan B letter to WH then go dark. You can use what he said here as a lead in:

"I don't think exchanges like this are helpful. I think they feel cold and impersonal-it's just the nature of it-and it's not a dialogue. You don't hear my feelings and I don't hear yours. I think we need to have a dialogue and heal together-as I thought we agreed before-but not this way. I responded 'point-by-point' (which frankly just feels stupid) because I felt like I had to respond in kind. I don't want to continue this. Please let me know if and when you're ready to see a counselor or just meet face to face and please don't use the IM in this way, per what you originally asked."

Keep the letter clear and concise. You might want to put it in your thread for review before sending.

I never had to do Plan A or B so take this advice with a grain of salt...

I kicked H out a few days after Dday but still had some contact with him...mostly telling him what an ahole he was LOL. But when he wasn't around and my kids were at school, I'd let the anger and sadness out...crying, screaming, punching a pillow, whatever. This went on for about 3 weeks before he came home. When he did come home I was able to control my feelings a lot more without falling apart or feeling like I wanted to take his head off.

I know you've cried too many tears but have you addressed your anger? It may sound stupid but something as little as yelling into the wind can be cleansing and Lord knows you have reason to be angry. When I was feeling weak, I'd grab hold of my anger to see me through it. I wanted my M but I didn't NEED it. You are going to have to heal with or without marital R. As long as you don't let the anger consume you, it can be helpful and make you stronger.

bf, I would probably use the letter in SAA if you haven't before. And if you have before, just send it again.

Yes, back in November. I pretty much stuck to it except two awful phone calls we had until I bought my new car (I had to have him sign for some of the title transfers and I used that as an excuse to see him, quite frankly). Secondly, he confirmed that he was going to hire a lawyer, I sort of gave up and just communicated with him directly. As you can imagine it was a slow slide back to where I was in the fall.

I reiterated the "new" no contact after learning that he was still seeing OW (duh!) with a simple statement. I can resend the plan b letter, but I think its pretty clear to him that what I intended was that I will not have contact with him until he ends his contact with OW.

bf, my suggestion would be to send him the letter again and just tell him you intend on sticking to it this time. And then do exactly that.

Hopefully, this was a typical Plan B letter as outlined in SAA? That will be important because it is the last thing he will hear from you. The last thing he has heard from you at this point is lovebusting so the letter might help a little in that regard.

Do your kids know not to let him in and not to hand you the phone if he calls and asks for you?

What about finances and visitation? Is that all scheduled so that there will be little to NO contact? If not, now would be the time to set it up that way.

bf, who is your IM? Do you mean Charlotte?

yes, Charlotte.

Here is the plan b letter I sent in November. Any suggestions to update it considering my own inability to keep to zero contact?
November 25, 2008

Dear WH,
This is has been such a difficult time in our lives together. I love you so very much. I want our marriage and family restored and I am willing to do my part to care and protect you.

However, I cannot go on like this forever. I am so sorry for my part in creating an atmosphere that helped make the affair possible.

I love you and wanted to grow old with you, but it’s just too hard for me to share you with OW. The love I have in my heart for you is being drained by sharing you and I want to protect what love I have for you. I am willing to create a new life for us but can't until you end your relationship with OW once and for all.

Until then I can no longer see or talk to you. I ask that you no longer contact me directly. You are not to come into the house unless it is prearranged to pick-up items. I will assume that the finances will be the same as you have been providing for the kids and me. Michele W. has agreed to act as an intermediary for issues regarding the children or finances. I will be sure to have the kids ready for your visits by meeting you in the driveway. I also ask that you not disrespect me by exposing our children to OW in any way.

The path back to my heart and our family is there as soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OW with no contact with her ever again and start a plan to recover our marriage. If we both work at our marriage, I know we can have the happiest of marriages. I am really going to miss you, my friend, my lover and my husband.

Love you always,

Mel -- so glad you are here!
You've voiced all of my concerns so concisely!

Plan B is supposed to PROTECT you from all the the emotions and feelings you have experienced since reading his drivel. There is nothing in there that is helpful to you. Reading more of his justifications or even the slight bit of remorse DOES NOTHING FOR YOU unless he LEAVES OW. In fact, its draining your love for him and you are now contemplating why you even want to save the marriage -- and you are angry with WH. You have less energy and desire to save your marriage. This is EXACTLY what you are supposed to be protected from!!!

And the only thing that has gotten through on his side has been NEGATIVE LOVEBUSTS. That is not good. Instead of him pondering your Plan A efforts, he's left with thinking of your current interactions (which frankly sound pretty bad). He is justifiably angry that you are telling your daughter what to say to him, and making snide comments about OW. That is just going to make him defend and protect OW. You know that right?

You aren't supposed to break Plan B, because YOU feel strong. This is part of an overall strategy to save your family. Get it?

MelodyLane,
BTW, I sent you a quick email to have your address -- you are welcome to send me anything off-line if need be.
Thanks!

Here's the letter updated. I got to admit I felt silly as I reworked it thinking, "he's divorcing you already!" and "you can't ask that he keep the kids away from OW -- that's who he wants to live with!"
Anyway, here it is -- feedback?
May 19, 2009

Dear WH,
I deeply miss the man I feel in love with, had my babies with and laughed with over the years. I grieve everyday for that person. I am so sorry for my part in creating an atmosphere that helped make the affair possible and for my hurtful behavior during this very difficult year.

I do love you and want to grow old with you, but it’s just too hard for me to share you in any way with OW. The love I have in my heart for you is being drained by sharing you and I want to protect what love I have for you. I am willing to create a new life for us but can't until you end your relationship with OW once and for all.

Until then I can no longer see or talk to you. I attempted this for many months and began to heal some during that time. When I renewed contact with you while you were still involved with OW, my suffering began again and I have learned that it’s not healthy or safe for me to have you in my life in any way while you are involved with her. I know I asked that we attempt to heal together, but that cannot happen with OW in our lives.

I ask that you no longer contact me directly. You are not to come into the house unless it is prearranged to pick-up items. I will assume that the finances will be the same as you have been providing for the kids and me. Michele W. has agreed to act as an intermediary for issues regarding the children or finances. I will be sure to have the kids ready for your visits by meeting you in the driveway. I also ask that you not disrespect me by exposing our children to OW in any way.

The path back to my heart and an intact family is there as soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OW with no contact with her ever again and start a plan to recover our marriage. Even after all this time I know in my heart that if we both work at our marriage, we can both be happy in our marriage. Even the current process with the lawyers is no barrier to our recovering our marriage.

I miss you, my friend, my lover and my husband.

Love you always,


Also, do I send it again to OW? And should I make sure my lawyer and his has a copy?

bf, I would keep this as simple as possible because he is not going to read through a new letter. He will read your old letter when his affair starts crumbling, though, so I would send it again. My suggestion would be to send the OLD letter - it was a good one - and just put a note on it.

Something to the effect of:

Joe, I am resending my original letter and ask that you respect my wish for no contact. I am sorry I gave you the wrong impression by continuing contact, but have found it to be too painful. Please channel all essential information through my IM, XXX. Thank you, BF

And please, please commmit to absolute no contact. There should NEVER be a reason, short of dire emergencies that would constitute breaking nc. This is the BEST THING for your marriage, your children and your mental health. You have been dealing with this for FAR TOO LONG, bf, and I am very concerned for you.

Good points, thank you, ML. A couple of questions:
Should I give him a paper copy as I did previously (or electronic ok) and should I resend a copy to other woman?

BF, I think it might have more impact if he got a paper copy with your handwritten note on top. I can't think of any reason that skankyhola should get another copy.

BF, can you bring me up to speed on a couple of things?

1. did you expose this affair to your family, his family, OW's family?

2. is this a workplace affair? Who is this skank?

3. do your children know all about the affair?

[quote=MelodyLane]BF, I think it might have more impact if he got a paper copy with your handwritten note on top. I can't think of any reason that skankyhola should get another copy.

BF, can you bring me up to speed on a couple of things?

1. did you expose this affair to your family, his family, OW's family? I also did expose to OW's mom over the phone. WH's parents are very hurt and say they don't know what they would do if he continues, but they are also of the mind that they want to help him be the best dad he can, considering. This has been very confusing to my kids and to me.
2. is this a workplace affair? Who is this skank? Its sort of workplace. My WH is sort of a 'golden boy' in social service field. She works for an agency that he sat on the board for (same social issue, though, homelessness). When I asked for NC early on, he essentially explained that it would be impossible since they run in such small professional circles. In fact, early on after d-day I thought we were going to be fine and then he went on a business trip and it all seemed different. Of cource he denied her being involved, but he asked to see her at that conference and did so and it was all down-hill from there.
She is not married, long-term partner broke up with her due to the affair; no children; 10 years-younger, bi-sexual and actually started the affair with my H when her long-term partner was recovering from a vasectomy reversal so they could have children. According to my BIL, WH told him that her last relationship developed out of an affair also. She has stated to me that she would never have renewed the affair if she thought my marriage had "any chance." 3. do your children know all about the affair? Yes, my children are well-aware of who she is; what an affair is; where I stand with it. He continues to say that he would have left me regardless and that the fact that he stayed PHYSICALLY away from her and did not come back to me proves that its no longer an affair. DS12 will see him, but hates what he has done; DD13 has told him how she feels and won't spend time with him if not to see grandparents. DD4 is just confused why her daddy won't come home.[/quote]

Another good reason to go DARK; so you don't have to hear this irrational fogbabble.

Thanks for answering my questions. I just wanted to make sure you had covered these bases.