I think it's because we are not as sure as you are that her affair is done. We've seen it all before, dozens of times, where they WS INTENDS to call it off, but can't help herself, and falls back into contacting the OM.

And yes, every one of the BSs says he is SURE she is no longer contacting OM. But they are.

There is one more, VERY important reason. The person who has the affair has to FULLY understand the devastation she has caused, and the potential for doing it all over again - because she is suffering NO CONSEQUENCES.

Think of a kid who steals gum; if the parent says 'now now, you know that's wrong, now let's forget it' - do you think he'll do it again? You betcha!

What if the parent makes him go to the store owner, admit what he did, and offer to work to pay it off. Do you think that kid will steal again? Not NEARLY as likely.

She needs to understand the full force of what she has done. She will NEVER do that if she gets to just drop it. Letting your family know - HER letting the family know, if it's past tense - will teach her the humility to know that SHE is not the most important person in the world.

If you don't confront this, it WILL happen again.

I also want to add that, by not exposing - even if you do it together - you are starting the rest of your life together on a lie. And you know how that goes...let the first lie in and the next one is easier...and the next even easier...and so on.

Just vow you'll have utter honesty henceforward.

Lvinitaly - question for you... is your WW folllowing along with the MB principles with you? Has she committed to you to at least try?
That being said, you asked how long I went through the stay or go phase? Well, my A was a lot longer than your WW's A so I'd say for the whole time I was involved obviously - after I finally decided I needed to get off the fence I made the decision that the only way I could live with myself was to at least give my M one more shot. That is when I decided to stay. There is no specific time period, but the fact that she is coming home and willing to work on ENs says a lot.
As for exposure - my opinion is do what you feel is right. (I know I will take a beating for this) But, my H can see the signs in me if I am starting to become involved again. I have become happier, more empowered, and confident since ending my A. He will definately be able to tell if I slip back into my old ways. So watch her closely. As for the OMW, yes I believe she has a right to know but at this point you and your WW seem to be making progress in a good direction - I hate to see that ruined. I truly feel if you were in close proximity to the OM and your WW was not working with you, then there would be a need to have the OMW in your corner. This is my opinion and my opinion only - my H is in agreement with me on this. He had no use for my OM or his W and did not want to have any contact with that family. I felt it best to honor his wishes. However, my OMW already knew because he told her so that she would kick him out, which she refused to do... anyway, that is off subject. Do what is right for your marriage and let me know how things are going. (I feel 2x4's headed my way)

Just a couple thoughts as I read your thread. You can take them as you want.



Was it EA or just PA?? So she was only deployed for a month at the same location as the OM??

And what guarantee do you have that there is no contact? Did she ever send a no contact letter?

I think what concerns me reading your posts is that you so want to make things right in your marriage and move past this that you might be missing steps and setting yourself up for false recovery. I could be very wrong in this however might be something to think about.

One of the reasons why I am wondering why you believe no contact is you say your wife is in the military. Do you have access to her military email accounts?? Can she access them when she goes to work??

So you know that long distance relationships are possible. So to think that just because you are overseas and he is on the west coast you are safe I think might be setting yourself up.



Yes it does and are there any other deployments coming up? Or will you guys be able to work on this for a long period of time?


Follow the steps of the MB program. Read threads here of spouses who have been successful and who have had false recoveries.


We can agree to disagree on this however I think this wife deserves to know what the OM and your wife has done to her marriage.



You have no guarantee that your wife is not in contact with him but your wife's word. Is that good enough for you at this time?? How much do you want to make sure that their is no possibility that they can ever strike up a relationship again?? And until your wife feels the full effects of what her actions did to you and the OM wife how can that make things better for you and her?? What does it take to find this wife, send her a email or letter asure her there is no longer anything going. This wife deserves the chance to make her marriage better and to get herself tested for any STD's.

What are you afraid of if you expose this to the OM wife?

You have heard from several ww's that they did not want to contact the OM"s wife however they did and it was one of the best things to help the recovery of their marriage. Isn't that what you want?? The best possible recovery?? Or partial recovery?

Just wanted to give you an update! I hope your WW is reading along with MB. My H and I have made huge strides this past week. Still no SF because I am not ready for that, but all the hand holding, cuddling etc is starting to pay off. They say fake it till you make it - I started out not wanting him to be anywhere near me but I let him hold my hand (he never used to do that) and we'd cuddle occassionally, now I am really starting to enjoy it! I am the one reading about MB, so I hope your W is reading too. It can improve - it takes time and a lot of patience on both parts.
I am currently reading His Needs, Her Needs - the first chapter meant a lot to me - she and you may get some insight from that book as well. Hope things are still improving! Keep working at it

Lizzy2- I'm glad to hear that things are getting better for you and your H. So do you think that the whole fake it to make it works? How long have you been working at it? Is that something that Dr. Harley recommends? I haven't seen it in any of his books but have heard it here and from a Marriage councilor. I have the book His Needs, Her Needs but have not got to read it yet. I ordered four of his books at once and am working through them. I will definitely check out that chapter. Thank you for checking in on us. My wife wants to work through this and save the marriage she is just worried that she will never find the desire for me that she needs and by extension what would we do if that were to happen. I think it's possible but won't be overnight, as I am sure you know. Let me know how things are going for you and H along your journey thanks again.

Let me give you some background on me - my A lasted 4 years, on again off again because I did not do NC and I worked with him. When I would withdrawl from him and start to go through depression I thought it was because I missed him, not because I was going through a withdrawl. So, really my PA ended over a year ago, but the EA continued on again, off again. I started NC about 5 weeks ago but my H and I have been working on our relationship for some time (Probably a year) but some with false recovery. The fake it til you make it works for me at least with the hand holding, kissing and cuddling as I really did not want anything to do with him over a year ago, started faking it, then about 3 months ago, little by little things improved. I kissed him deeply today and actually felt a bit of a tingle inside (may be too much information - sorry) but I have not felt that for him in over 7 years! It does work! I had the same worries your wife did - that I would never recover any emotions that I had before - that I would never feel with him like I felt with my A - but slowly I am realizing that things are getting better. Will we make it? Who knows but at least we are giving it our all! I hope you tell your W there is hope (spoken directly from a Wayward who thought all hope was lost!)

Hi Liv

What are your most recent thoughts on exposure?

bjs- Thank you for your thoughts, first off you asked if it was EA or PA. It was mainly PA but he was filling her needs in some ways.

Yes, a no contact letter was sent on the 18th of September.

Yes, I know that long distance relationships can work, but there are things going against that. First she has given no contact, next we are going to be over here in Europe for another two years, and lastly she wants to make our marriage work just as much as I do.

Yes, unfortunately more deployments are on the horizon, we are trying to make the best of the time that we have now. This is the military way of life, but I'm ready for her to give it up if that is what she wants to do.

I understand your insistence on the exposure part but at this point I'm not fully sure it would help us move forward. I maybe setting myself up for false recovery or to take a fall but I don't feel as though that is the case. Yes my wife's word is good enough for me to believe that she is not continuing the A. This is working for me and my marriage and I don't want to regress or damage the work that has been put in already. I think the OMW should know as well but I'm leaving that decision up to my W. I'm not pushing the issue and if she were to decide that she wants to contact her then I would support it. Thank you again for you thoughts and I look forward to what people have to add to this post.

OK then lvn,

You seem pretty set that you'd rather take the risk and leave exposure so I'll drop it.

Catperson mentioned about WW understanding the hurt she has caused, has she shown remorse? Do you think she understands betrayal?


You both want to make it work, have you worked together on Extraordinary precautions (EPs): the steps your W has taken to make sure that your M is protected from wayward behaviour in the future?

Hello Stay,

Yes your right at this point I'm willing to take the risk. I hope that it doesn't come back to haunt me but at this point it just doesn't feel like it would make sense. I understand the reasons behind it and that it does work but I know that my wife is in this to save the marriage as well.

Yes she has shown remorse, I can tell that it bothers her that she did this now that she has had time to think about it. I do think that she understands the betrayal and what it has done to me.

Yes we have worked on the EPs, but due to our jobs it's hard sometimes. I think you almost have to be more understanding of job demands being married mil to mil.

We are now working on finding our way back to her having a desire for me. If you have any ideas on that let me know.

I'm still working on that - but I have faith in the fake it til you make it philosophy.

I pushed myself out of my comfort zone to be affectionate and give hugs and cuddles - on advice of ohters here , i set myself targets to make physical contact xnumber of times a day and then increased the level of contact.

Hugs and kisses are very easy now and I want to and I can easily share my day and conversation is a lot easier.

Snogs I can do sometimes - maybe a couple of times a week - actually it's time increased my target for this.

The old SF is real hit and miss but when we have it it is good - once in the lasts couple of weeks. At the moment my H is very patient with this and is putting no pressure on at all - accpets for now that it isn't really happenning.

There is lots of debate on here about the SF. For me this is something that I will find it hard to make myself do - when we have done it, it has always been because i want to, not because I'm making myself. I keep offering phone sex, but he isn't so keen.

There are also articles on MB on sexual aversion which I have found very useful to try to overcome all of my affection/intimacy issues.

Hey staytogether, how long have you been working on the fake it to make it philosophy? It seems to me that WW's have an aversion to affection/intimacy after A where as a WH doesn't. That is what I'm gathering from a lot of the posts on this site. How long did it take you to get over this enough to want to have sex with your H. My wife and I are over two months without sex and I'm just wondering what time line others are having. By the way what is a snog by your definition. I'm more than patient to wait for my wife to feel she wants to have intimacy with me. Right now we hug and Kiss and cuddle in bed or on the couch at night. Thanks for your post.

A woman has to have feelings before she can have the SF. Otherwise, it's just S. You have to work on the feeling part. What is your day to day living like?

Hello catperson, I'm not sure what you mean about what our day to day living is but I will try to answer your question.

First off we sleep in the same bed and cuddle throughout the night. We both work so we get up about the same time and get ready for work. We kiss each other goodbye in the morning and go off to work. During the day we may e-mail, or instant message each other just to say hi. Some times we meet for lunch when both of us have the time. When we get home from work we talk about our day with each other and hang out around the house. We have divided up the chores of the house because I realized that my wife has a need for domestic support and she should since we both work. She is a natural busy body and enjoys cleaning I'm the opposite but I'm willing to do anything to ensure my wife's happiness. We may watch some tv together or talk some more. Then we go to bed and kiss goodnight and cuddle. That is about it. On the weekends we try to get out and do fun stuff together, like hiking or snowboarding pretty much anything outdoors.

We get along great, we have always got along great. My wife and I both want our marriage to work. But She is afraid that she won't find the desire for me that she thinks she needs. This is our dilemma.

Hey Lvnin - your WW dillema is normal I think. I am going through the same emotions. I have told you I have been "faking" feelings so I can kiss my BH and hold his hand and cuddle. I did not feel like doing any of these things but forced myself to do them and they are becoming more natural. I too question on an almost daily basis if I will find the desire for him that I need - it is a 2 way street. He needs to work on what I need to feel desirous, as well as my communicating to him what I need from him. It is extremely hard after an A because that OM was filling some strong EN's. Now I need my H to fill them - I do not expect him to be just like my A - that would be creepy. So I guess you just need to continue to meet her ENs and talk everyday about what they are - believe me we women can be fickle and our ENs could change from day to day. But the top 5 will always be our top 5 - just not necessarily in the same order. As for SF - I cannot even begin to think about it right now (ok I think about it) but do not have the desire at this point. I am reading His Needs, Her Needs and have asked my H to read along too - at this point he keeps putting it off - but I think once he and I are able to better communicate about what is in that book we will take another huge step in our relationship and move a step closer to SF. Keep working - you will make it.

Hi Lvn

Just been back over my thread ot try and find some time lines for you. I was working really really hard on the affection in April and beginning of MAy. So this was 3 or 4 months after DDay and after I had found MB and was trying to use it to sort things out. Had I not found it I am quite sure I still wouldn't be able to do the hug thing.

Snog = kiss with toungues ( there are several hundred other terms on my thread if you're interested - exaggerated)

I'm not sure about the Sex, soon after dday we did the "hysterical bonding" and had lots but after a week it dropped to nothing.

Unforunately the bit of my thread where i was working hard on wanting sex with H disappeared with the down - but I think it was prob, about July, so 7 months post dday. We prob had sex before then, but it would only have been sex as opposed to something more meaningful.

So, I'm at 11months NC and still working hard to get it back physically.


Not sure whether you have been over on the Recovery Board but this is a new thread over there No Kissing and No Sex

and my thread is over there too, if you want to see some of my battles with myself and the mountains of encouragement and advice I had from people here to get close to my H (there was a lot of other stuff going on aswell tough).

ST

Lvninitaly,

Don't have much time but wanted to say something. Faking it until you make it is NOT what it sounds like. It is using a common phrase to express something far deeper.

You married and promised to love one another for the rest of your life. You did NOT promise to feel "in-love" with one another for the rest of your life. Feelings come and go, What you promised and what is being asked is that you act in a "loving" manner toward your spouse no matter if you are the BS or the WS. Recovery requires that you two return to your vows and that means you treat one another in a loving manner. Love is an action not a feeling.

So when acting in a loving manner, especially if the feelings have not returned it often feels unnatural although this is exactly what you two promised one another. Hence you get the "fake it until you make it" advice. Treating someone in a loving manner and respect engenders loving feelings.

Just remember you both promised to love one another and that is an act not a feeling.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning, thank you for your interpretation of the fake it to make it phrase. When the MC suggested this to my wife she didn't like the idea of Faking anything. While I understand her wanting to have the feelings naturally and just have them come back. I agree with the treating your spouse in a loving manner. I can tell she is trying but I also see it is very hard for her at this point. We do hug and kiss and cuddle but most of the time I initiate it. The good thing is she is not avoiding these things. I truly look forward to the day that she initiates more than I do.

Stay,

Thanks for writing back, I looked over the thread that you linked and started looking at your thread. I will read more of it in the coming day or so.

I have a new question for you, how often do you and H talk about relationship stuff? I don't want to over talk about it but I know that we need to discuss things we need to work on together as well. I point out stuff that people write to me on here and encourage my wife to go on and read the forums and Dr. Harley's info. We have the books and I think our next step is to call and talk to the counseling center so we can get so good direction from a Dr.

Unlike a lot of you on this site my wife and I are working against a clock in a sense. We are both Military and due to her job she will be going to the Middle east some time in the spring so we trying to get to a place where we are both confident in our marriage and that we can deal with being apart for 7 months again. Thanks again.