I don't know Queenie but for a man to go without SF for that length of time is highly unusual.

Call Steve Harley - steal the money if you have to there is too much at stake here. Steve will quickly cut through the fog

No he hasn't been to a dr. I haven't offered he go either.

He did say he would 'take care of me", but that's not really what I want.

That's why I'm talking to you Mel. It occurred to me that I'm going to 60 rpm's in under 20 seconds. So I'm going to try and go back to basics of MB. Learning about what each other's LB's and EN's are.

Everyday he shows me signs of progress by doing things for me, they just aren't high on my EN's list. I mean he took me dancing for heaven's sake. He's NEVER done that. He washed and put tires on my car. So I thought if I asked you where to start then hopefully he would catch on and take an interest in me.

Does that make sense. Now. I'm not willing to go like this for the rest of my life. But I'm being honest, that I am unwilling to split up my family because my kids are healing and becoming more and more happy. I really believe we have a shot at a new marriage and I'm just willing to be patient and try other avenues.

If he was that monster of a wayward, things would be different. But he isn't. We actually are having a blast with each other. We are starting to talk about dreams, hope, goals, etc.

Let me work on that Vladi, but until then...

I wanted a starting place and Mel gave me some great ideas. He is willing to sit down with me tonight and knows I want him to take the surveys.....

You know, many thought me stupid, but I let go and let G-d work in him. No one gave us a shot at recovery. It doesn't look like what I wanted, but other than that one part, he is really being pretty wonderful.

I need support in looking for solutions... Please... I want to keep trying for while longer. June 11 is my deadline date.. ok....

Queenie I hate to be the one who says this but if you are not familiar with Braeworth's story perhaps you should take a look

No, I don't believe I am. I assume its on here?

Yes it is or was try searching for it - or search his username braeworth I think he mainly posted to his own thread

Queenie, read this paragraph from Dr. Harley's Requirements for Recovery:


article here

Doesn't that hit the mark?

Q, I agree you should do this methodically and thoroughly, but this cannot be fluffed off as trying to go 60rpms in 20 seconds. That is not the issue. This is a matter of a willingness to meet a basic need. That does not take time. That takes only willingness. A willingness to meet your needs and be honest about it. That only takes a willingness that should be prevalent in any person who is serious about recovering his marriage.

You have a right to know WHY he refuses to meet this basic need. Is he doing something else to meet this need? Is there a medical problem? You cannot force him to have sex with you, certainly. But it is just basic decency and thoughtfulness to explain to you an important factor that concerns YOUR MARRIAGE, Queenie. This is about your life. This is not some private issue of his.

It is unspoken issues in marriage that ruins intimacy and that is what I see here. Being friendly and going dancing are good things, but they cannot compensate for a lack of radical honesty. This has to be a discussion between you both, my friend.

I don't buy that but working with that scenario you could tell him that SF after such along time apart is scary but you want to reconnect with him...you both need to learn to love each other again. Or you can molest him just before he wakes up in the morning...morning wood.

LOL... I'm laughing because he has the willingness and I believe he is trying to be honest. In AA just because you have the willingness doesn't mean you are taking action.

I want the action.

Seriously, I do understand what you are saying. I have been willing to just let it be and let him work on HIM, but it's time to take action for us. He has been transparent in everything that I have asked him, but this one area. I have known this man from the time I was 17 and him 18. There is without a doubt some demon lurking around him over this. Maybe he was with a man as well. I don't know, but I agree it's something.

I PROMISE to take action. What I am willing to do today, is begin the questionaire and move in a forward motion. OK......I'm not willing to make demands that I honestly have no back bone to stand up to. Not today at least. My heart truly believes to take little steps.

BR... my oh my....

I guess to be honest, I'm just simply afraid of being rejected right now. And the year before the A was exposed we had NO sex. I have had enough rejection in our marriage...

You asked for suggestions. But I understand. Give him the questionnaire and see how what his responses but don't let him push it off. When he stated he was afraid of not being good enough, was that the end of the conversation?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Queenie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}]

I worry about you....

Hi BR, yes, I did ask for suggestions and I really do hear what all of you are saying. I honestly don't remember what happened after he told me that.

Thanks Melody, I worry about me as well.

We started the workbook last night. He was all gung ho and then we started with him. I figured that I understood these principles first so I could take his criticism or challenges. Like the book we started with SD... I was absolutely blown away that he doesn't feel I make any demands on him. So after a few minutes we went onto DJ's. Here's where it got really interesting and to be honest, I just realized that SD are involved here to.

He told me he felt cornered like a cat to do MB principles, and that I was trying to force my way of thinking onto him, by making him learn these principles because they would create that romantic marriage that we both wanted.

Talking went back and forth, and then I got to the real cause and condition. He doesn't trust ONE PERSON, not even G-d. He doesn't TRUST anyone because he isn't trustworthy and if he can't trust himself how could he trust someone else.

What I saw was a man who is absolutely frozen in the prison of HIS mind and body and afraid to trust a single soul in this world. What I saw was a scared little boy who has such a wall of protection around him that losing his marriage would be almost better than trusting someone or G-d. And quite honestly, I felt so sad for him.

He did promise to continue to work on the workbook. He understands the value, but he isn't there yet and asked me to not give up on him.

I'm sure many of you will think he is blowing smoke up my rear, but you weren't here and you don't know my husband. I told him how all the conversations on here went, about not being willing to meet my needs, about still being involved with another woman because I would stake my LIFE on it he isn't involved with crack ho.

As the conversation wrapped up, I had gotten to express alot of my hurt and sadness over what had happened in our life. How I wanted more for myself and wanted more for him and that I hoped he could find that path to healing because I wouldn't wait forever, Queenie deserved a lot more than that.

I told him that I loved him so much, clearly more than he could ever imagine, understand, or feel and that I was giving him up to G-d once again because this wasn't my problem and I couldn't fix it. He asked if I was throwing him out. Skinsgal would have made idle threats. Queenie doesn't and said, NO. But that this was his journey his fight for happiness and it wasn't my responsibility to fix it or find the solutions, that was between him and his G-d. And that I truly hope he found it.

He asked me to please not give up on him.

Of course I won't. But I also know that I can't fix this. He is just a very troubled soul and I'll just have faith and trust in my G-d that he can find a way to reach my H.

Call me stupid, call me whatever. But today, Queenie knows what she wants and what she wants is to let go and let G-d and give him more time.

So Queenie, what is his plan? What is his plan to repair your marriage? I agree he should not be pushed to use the MB program, but he obviously cannot expect to come back with no plan of recovery. That is how FALSE RECOVERIES happen, Queenie. And you have an obligation to protect yourself from that.

Is he there to fix the marriage or did he need a place to sleep? What is his plan since he doesn't want to be pushed into MB?

Queenie, in your Plan B did the conditions include a plan of recovery? Was this not agreed upon before you let him come back?


Thats good. This is a good healthy approach for marriage. It is not lack of trust that ruins marriages, but a lack of boundaries. He knows he is not trustworthy, so at least he is honest about that.

Morning Mel,

He didn't want to fix the old marriage. He wants to create a new marriage but he realizes that it's HIM that is stopping it from happening.

His plan to is to work through this and keep moving foward, keep talking about it, praying, etc. He wants to work throught the workbook, but be totally honest when he says he hasn't bought into hook line and sinker.

My Plan B condition was "In order to PRESERVE the LOVE that I have left for you, I've come to the decision to no longer have any contact with you at all UNTIL you end your relationship with OW and give us another chance". In all honesty, he has done this. I am absolutely positive he has NO contact with crack ho and he is giving us another chance.

He trusts the AA process and wants AA to be part of our marriage recovery as well.

Q, marriage recovery is much like recovery from alcoholism in many ways. It is not enough to just quit drinking, one has to go through the steps and actually implement them into his life in order to change. Stopping drinking is just STEP ONE, if one doesnt work the other steps there is no recovery. If recovery doesnt happen, we all know what usually happens. The person drinks again.

And it is the same with marriage. A marriage doesn't get better by wishing it so anymore than an alcoholic gets better by wishing it. And that is a peculiar trait of alcoholics, we think saying they want change will effect it. But we know it doesn't. Wishful thinking never makes anything change. That is alcoholic thinking.

AA is not designed to save a marriage. It is designed to change us from the inside out, but it does not address a marriage so I think it muddies the waters trying to make AA into something it is not.

One bright spot here is that he is willing to go through the motions of using the workbook, so hopefully if he brings the body the mind will follow.

Just so you know, Queenie, this is one reason that it is IMPERATIVE to have a plan of recovery in place BEFORE reconciliation ever takes place. I know it is too late for that now, but the Harleys are adamant about this element, otherwise, what usually results is a FALSE RECOVERY. If a WS does not engage in a plan of recovery, then the marriage will not be recovered. period. It can't happen by osmosis. There is much, much more to a successful reconciliation than just ending an affair. just as there is much, much more to recovery from alcoholism than just putting down the drink; that is just STEP ONE. All the other steps have to be worked too.

I wish you the best, friend. {{{{{{{{{{{QUEENIE}}}}}}}}}

I do get that NOW...

I absolutely agree with you. And to not would be to lie to myself. I just have to trust G-d for a little longer. NOT FOREVER...

And yes he is willing to keep working and for TODAY that's good enough for me.

Thanks Melody, I really appreciate your help on this.

This is false, Queenie.

You can't be willing and still have no action.

Actions are the FRUIT of willingness. Actions DEMONSTRATE that the "willingness" is truly there.

If someone says they are willing, yet they do not do what they say they are willing to do, how can that be considered willingness?

They are UNwilling to DO it.

SMB, you and I have don't believe have ever disagreed. I do on this one.

Case in point. I have the willingness to loose weight. But my actions aren't indicative of my willingness.

No one was in that room with him but me. I experienced the wayward monster. This isn't him. This is someone who is very resistant, afraid and running away from G-d as fast as he can.

I love him enough to let him get it right with G-d first then me. I love him enough to let him go again and if my marriage doesn't survive, I know that I did the healthy thing. Let G-d have him.

Step 8 is made a list of those we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them. My sponsor told me that I didn't have to get stuck on HOW I was going to do it, just become willing to do it.