OP, but don't let him know that you can trace this. If you tell him you have spyware on her phone, then they will be forewarned and will find a new way to communicate. They do it all the time. Cheaters are very clever about this.

Besides, you need some absolute proof and I suspect you can get it this way.

okay MB, thanks.

Hey guys. I am two days from the original exposure day, and I probably haven't handled everything perfectly (it's hard). I plan to post up with some details, but for now a quick question:

I have a couple people calling me who have spoken to WW and are very upset at the way I've handled the situation. Especially in regards to exposing my 13 yo son to my WW's activity. "marriage is between the parents, blah, blah, don't bring the kids into it"
--Of course my wife has been good at turning the whole thing around I'm sure, when they call 'it isn't really an affair, he's just upset that I want out of the marriage, he's making a big deal out of nothing, etc.' is what I'm sure she is saying.

(I just listen to the nay-sayers, it doesn't bother me what they think)

***Is this normal?
If there is a relapse on her part (and I suspect there will be at some point) do I still call those who don't get it in the next go-around?

Why don't you explain it to them?

I tried Cat, but that's probably one of the things I didn't do incredibly well, being fairly new to the concept. WW is a very persuasive and intelligent woman; and since she still doesn't see her activity as an EA, or the root of our marital problems, I think she basically turned the tables around.
Ultimately I'm probably just paranoid that I've alienated some folks who don't see marriage as a sacred institution that's worth fighting for - I really shouldn't care about them anyway; my wife and family are what's important. There have been some good immediate effects of the exposure; I'm just projecting that if she relapses, I'll have no credibility with the people in her life who I would consider influential; therefore any further exposure plans might be ineffective.

It's incredible and sad how cavalier people are about marriage. I feel like I'm battling against all these outside forces trying to influence her (and me) away from the marriage ("you need to look out for your happiness, etc."). Even the her own Mother seems to be in favor of separation and divorce.
Doesn't anyone see the value of working out problems and finding a way to have a successful marriage even in the face of adversity?

Tell them that adultery affects the whole family and it is not cool to lie to kids. This affair affects your son just as much as it affects you. Leading marriage psychologist, Dr. Willard Harley, founder of Marriage Builders, always recommends exposure to the kids. It is lies and adultery that poison kids, not the truth. Kids can handle the truth, they can't handle lies.

OP, you cannot control the reaction of others. Some will support you, others will throw you and your son under the bus. You will find out quickly who the friends of your marriage really are.

Even though many are not supporters of marriage, but tend to be supporters of affairs, just the fact that your wife has to explain herself to them will put pressure on her affair. It is no fun to have an affair when everyone is looking. Now, she will have to watch her step around those ppl. And many will see through her.

But you will find many family members who simply don't give a damn about your wife. They care more about being liked than helping her do the right thing. When you don't care about someone, it is much easier to say retarded things like "I just want her to be happy." [I guess we should be grateful she is not an serial killer, huh? ] People who don't care that she makes herself "happy" destroying her family do not care about HER.

So don't let it bother you. Keep up your exposures and don't allow yourself to be discouraged by some non-caring crapwits.

You have to do the right thing for you and your son, not seek the approval of people who don't care about your marriage anyway.

Dr Willard Harley When Should An Affair Be Exposed?
By Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.
10.28.09

Dr Laura on telling children the truth [if you want this 1 hour MP3 clip, email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com] here

thanks ML, that's very helpful.
I'll check the clip when I can.
thanks for your support.

More to follow.
op

I doubt that the parents of WW will understand the kids betrayal.

Possibly, the revelation of MB documentation can help. Print off a couple without telling the MB source. Quote the direct sources.

Apparently, it will help to get them on your side. If you can cite the neighbors report of affection for your wife, they will see how inappropriate contact with him can be. Ask them for help to save your marriage!

thanks imagine, that's a good idea.
I was getting ready to simply denounce my mother in law, who I have generally had a good relationship with. That would have gone against everything I'm trying to accomplish. I'll put together some literature and send it asap. She's the preachy type, God knows I've ready plenty of stuff she's sent me!
op

Dear Optimism, Im sorry that you find your self in this situation, have you had the "what would you have done if you were in my shoes" conversation. What if it was a female neighbour and you were deleting text from. If it wasnt an affair and nothing happened why is she insisting on holding onto him and defending him. If i was her friend i would tell her that she is fuelling the fire, if it was nothing then why not just stop it and concentrate on the family. Shes blaming u for marital problems but im sure you didnt find the marriage so peachy but that didnt make you go out and conduct yourself the way she did. When friends and family contact you regading your behaviour explain to them that you told them about whats going on in your marriage to get their help and support to keep your family not because you were trying to hurt your WW or cause pain, if they dont agree with your marriage or helping you keep your family unit intact then make it clear your not interested in their opinion. Please also point out you exposed to son (13) and not daughter (8) because son old enough to see something is up and it would make situation worse if you kept him out the loop leading to him being anxious etc. The fact that you did not expose to daughter shows you werent being vindictive otherwise you would have.
Divorce or no divorce atleast you are certain of what you feel has gone on and you have done something about it rather than just sat there waiting for more evidence while more damage was being done. Her family can say or think what they like cause at teh end of the day you can go to sleep with a clear consience that you have not betrayed your marriage, she will never be able to do that no matter how much her family beleive her cause when the lights go off at night its herself she has to deal with.
Hope she has started to calm down by now if not jsut stick with being as rational as you can and hold your ground on what you beleive.

BH28,
thanks for your attention. I read your post and I also just read a "notable thread" at the top of this board.
With all this I feel I may have made a grave error and I need your and other's advice on how to get out of the corner I've painted myself into.

I believe I've been "gaslighted" to some extent.

While I truly believe from all the evidence I've gathered (including neighbors and general logical conclusions drawn) that my wife's affair is not physical, it has ALL the symptoms of an affair including: "we're just friends, there's no romantic intent, you're making a big deal out of nothing" meanwhile "I have not been happy in the marriage for years, we're not soul-mates, I just want to be happy." The change of heart happened EXACTLY when OM started being a more frequent visitor.

Here's how I was gas-lighted:
The day after the exposure, wife called while I was at work and talking all reasonable. All her friends had been calling her all day, family, neighbors, saying "your H is saying you're having an affair" (I had explained she was having an EA and she needed their help). She asked me to please stop telling everyone she was having an affair. I responded with:

"if you promise to stop having an affair, I'll stop telling everyone about it." She did and I did.

I believe now that may have been a big mistake. There are others who I would have like to have included, but now I feel like if I do, I'll be betraying my own word. I feel like I played a card before I had to. I also feel that by agreeing to "stop making a big deal about it" I took away my own ability to apply pressure, or in other words, allow the elephant in the living room to become invisible again.

I've been implementing the carrot part of plan A to a T. Relaxed behavior, providing a comfortable home environment, etc. I have also spoken to a cop/laywer friend (nice combo of professions, huh?) who says there's not much I can do from a legal standpoint from the OM's part of it, but he's aware and will support me in the future if I need it.

I live in awesome fear that she will relapse and am almost convinced he will call her or text her in the next two weeks and she will, if not answer directly, be sucked back in just enough to wreck the progress I'm making with plan A. And I'm afraid it will be my fault because I agreed to take the pressure off.

encouragement? advice?

--Optimism

I'm in the middle (beginning stages) of a plan A/exposure of my WW's EA that was essentially discovered in July (finally exposed in October (28th) due to my lack of knowledge of MB concepts, and that I though she was practicing NC prior to that).

As I have been reading MB books and articles on this website, I have come to the realization that at some point I'm going to need to reveal my past infidelities to my wife (the last of such was in 2002). FWIW: one involved a two week fling with intercourse, the others one-night make-out sessions.

We're taking part in counseling sessions with a pretty good psychologist. During one of these sessions, I'm thinking of reading a confession letter that I wrote to her.

Should I do it this week or wait until the initial shock of the recent exposure has worn off?

I don't think there is a "good" time for something like this. I'm deathly afraid that the timing might trigger a total retaliatory reaction with the OM.

Thoughts?
Please tell me what to expect. My wife is currently still somewhat resentful that I revealed her EA (which she continues to deny as a "friendship" but has promised to end) including to our son (13).
How do betrayed spouses usually respond to affairs from years ago? (I know enough to know it will seem as fresh as yesterday to her)

I don't consider this marital suicide. I just know that there is a chance of divorce in my future. I can't bear the thought of knowing that my wife might wind up divorcing someone who she never really knew 100%. And of course if we save the marriage, I want her to know who she's really married to.

I haven't researched this much on the site. please forgive me/direct me if there is info that could be beneficial.

Optimism

It's late and I'm tired, but my first reaction is - eek. Yes, everything is going to seem fresh to her, as though it just happened yesterday. To her, it literally did, because she didn't know about it before. And, her hurt and anger will be compounded by the fact that you have been lying to her about all of this for years. It will seem as though your entire life together from the time of the A's until the present was a lie, because essentially, it was. There were things going on in her life that she had no knowledge of. It will make her wonder if every memory she has of your life together was false. It's an ugly, terrible situation. A's are bad enough, but the lies make them so much worse.

It took my H years to come clean about everything to me. The lies were so much worse than his actions, because they made me wonder if I could ever trust anything he said again. I still wonder sometimes. We are in R, and I really do believe that my H is being honest with me now, but those old doubts still come back sometimes, because I was lied to for so long (10 years).

It's good that you have finally decided to come clean, but you should be prepared for the very long road you have ahead of you.

I really think the sooner you tell her the better. The longer it goes urevealed,the harder it will be, and the more it will color her view of your current situation later.

Yes, tell.

"We're taking part in counseling sessions with a pretty good psychologist."

The best place to do it. Give the shrink a heads up before you do it.

The sooner the better. Your past infidelities have harmed your marriage in ways you can't even imagine. It has prevented you from ever building a true intimacy in your marriage.

I can't spend much time here right now, but thanks everyone for your responses so far.
Op

Normally exposure is an atomic explosion. Keep your word if you promised it. Snoop. If she breaks her word, the exposure continues.

Exposure includes keyloggers, VA taping in her car and access to her blackberry.

In the mean time be airy, no relationship talk. Meet her EN'S and NO lovebusters. Read the articles on how not to be argumentative.

Something to think about.

I'm sure somewhere your wife may have thought something was off with your marriage. Maybe she could never quite put her finger on it but she knew there was something. Maybe she asked you about it maybe she didn't.

However because of the secrets you were keeping, you probably put up some type of wall that blocked a true intimacy with your wife. You kept her at hands length away.

I'm not excusing her EA not at all however because of this it might have helped contribute to the EA without her ever knowing it.

When we hide something in our marriage and especially affairs that are kept secret we are building walls up in our marriage that continue to be built regardless of the time that goes by.

The two of you cannot build a marriage, or true intimacy when you have the secret of affairs in your past. There will always be that secret, there will always be something missing. You marriage cannot truly recover.

I hope you do tell her, and yes there will be consequences that will have to be dealt with. However if you truly want to recover your marriage to the fullest potential possible then you need to tell her.