thanks bjs. I have now come to realize you're totally right. I always wondered why she never asked about any infelities I might have had. I believe it may be because 8 years ago she had a physical affair and we got through it, but I think she always may have felt like she didn't have the right to ask after that. I also felt that way, unfortunately (how stupid I was). And all these years since (7 since the last encounter) I've told myself the experiences had no real affect on our marriage. Again how wrong I was.
That she felt she could never ask (if that's the case - something we'll need to discuss with therapy), probably has contributed to her feeling like she's been improsoned to some extent by this marriage.
op

sorry imagine, I'm not sure what keyloggers and va taping are. I'll google it. I know of the phone spy software and am considering it (my phone isn't the right kind...)
I'm definitely NOT being argumentative and keeping up with the carrot part of plan A; are there specific articles you wouldn't mind linking?
opt

A keylogger is a software device that will recall all the detailo on the computer. Eg Spectrapro. A VA tape is a voice activated tape that responds to a person speaking. Good for the car or where she speaks most on a cell.

Read Spying 101 in the NOTES column of the first section.

Okay, I get it. Thanks imagine. the va tape would be a good place to start for the home and I made think I have figured out a way to access phone records on her cell which she pays for herself (imagine that! - a change which occured over the summer; previously she was on a plan with her father. She says it's too expensive to add a line to my phone.............)

good grief.

writer, I know you're right. but I have to tell you I'm so fearful I'm almost paralyzed. We're so on the brink right now with her having "separated from me emotionally" and the EA going on which she continues to refuse to acknowledge and me having just exposed it to most of her friends and family. I'm in the process of develping snooping tactics, and plan A.
There's SO MUCH going on right now, I KNOW the sooner the better and I KNOW I have to add this to the pile, this week if we can get a therapy session.
I need some support.
Somebody please convince me everything will eventually be okay. I really want my wife to know who I am, I love her and she deserves to know. Right now I'm so scared I can barely function.

optimism

Dude, you need to move your family. Preferably to another state. Continuing exposure to the other man will keep her from ever being able to recover. As a next-door-neighbor, it's inevitable, and this affair will keep sizzling until your marriage is burned to a crisp.

That said, you can't make such a decision unilaterally... that kind of life-change has to have her on board. While she's still wayward, that ain't gonna happen.

I have recently completed a fairly effective exsposure of my WW's EA, although my execution wasn't flawless. I did my best and am learnign as I go (with help from previous posts and lots of support here).

A question in my mind that may also help others:
I know that "I need space" is 'code' for "I want (or need time) to pursue the affair." And I am seeing from my research here that WSes often exhibit very familiar and identiclal behavior.
What is "please stop making a big deal about my friendship with (name of OP here)" code for???
And question two: How does the BS handle this question? Would further questioning be perceived as lovebusting and perhaps push the WW further away/towards OP? Is it okay to periodically check in with WW re: "have you had any contact?" (I'll know if she's lying at this point)- or is snooping the best approach?
Relevent: I am currently executing a plan A and WW has agreed to NC (which I'm almost certain she will relapse with).

opt

"Please stop making a big deal about my friendship with OP!" == "I think you are overreacting to my infidelity."

It's just "fogese". Blather. It's illogic designed to defend the affair. You are making it uncomfortable for her to continue to pursue her affair; your interference is working.

Avoid relationship talk for several weeks. Do a stellar Plan A. See if you can get her buy-in to read Love Busters together: one chapter a week. When you reach the "Independent Behavior" and "Dishonesty" chapters, you're both going to have a hell of a wake-up call.

EDIT: Google the term "gaslighting". Any time she tries to make the affair or the consequences of the affair your fault... she's gaslighting. I'm guessing that the "please stop making such a big deal about my friendship" is in some sort of conversation in which she says something like "we'd be fine if you weren't making a big deal about my friend". Yep, just a classic Gaslighting line: she wants you to think your marriage problems are a result of your "overreaction" to her friendship, or totally unrelated to the "friendship". Anything to preserve the fantasy-land endorphin-rush she gets when she's with her affair partner.

This EA is what is doing damage to your marriage. Learn to avoid Love Busters: no angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, or selfish demands. Meet her emotional needs. You BOTH have work to do on yourselves to improve and affair-proof your marriage, but that EA needs to be over and done with before recovery can really get rolling.

Opt,

It's best if you stick to one thread. It helps those that are helping you if you keep all your facts and questions in one thread so we are looking everywhere figuring out your story. If you have a new question or an emergency that you want immediate help on then you can change your threads title. Just hit "notify" on the bottom and the mods will change it to what you want. In fact, you should notify th now and ask them to combine the two threads you have going......

As far as the question, it ALL means " please leaver alone while I roll around int cake".....aka....FOGBABBLE

not2fun

Wayward Speak

Reverse fog babble

Gg

-No problem N2F. Sorry about that. I didn't realize how things happen here. I will ask the moderators to combine a couple of threads (I actually have 4 going; all at least loosely related).

thanks for the advice.
opt

Threads have been merged.

Okay it's been about a week since the exposure (and essentially implementation of plan A). What an emotional roller coaster. How to stay grounded?
I'm still hearing Wayward Fog Babble, but I don't try to challenge anything at this point. The stick of plan A advises "not apologizing for the exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way."
Does this mean I bring up the "truth" (i.e. the EA) when it seems appropriate, or am I staying away from it unless she brings it up?
"Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused."
I'm not sure in what context this should be brought up either...

Sorry for the rudimentary questions. I am waiting for my "Surviving an Affair" book ordered last week.

opt

Oh, I forgot to ask this also:
I am expecting to encounter another episode of violation of the NC agreement; there has already been one initiated by the OM, which my WW 'shut down' according to trusted neighbors (she was giving out candy at Halloween and he walked up to initiate a conversation).
---How can I prepare for my next action if and when the violation occurs?
I assume I'm going to run another Exposure. Of course this time I'll be prepared with a full list of individuals.
--Is it good to write an "Exposure letter" and send it to family members/friends? ( I don't like email for this I thought more of snail mail)

Where am I going wrong here?

Don't bring anything up. Just Plan A. Be amazing! Any second she may open her eyes, look around, and realize she's married, and take a new look at you. Make sure it's a great view.

Part of Plan A is to continue to make the A untenable. If I were you, I'd be making a visit to OM to remind him to keep hisself to his own side of the street, so to speak.

Have you exposed to HIS family?

I have not exposed to His family. He is single and I know who his dad and grandfather are, but not sure how to get ahold of them.

Had a therapy session tonight in which we both recounted for the therapist what has transpired in the last few months. Including the Exposure. All this brought my WW to a new boiling point and after the session I heard some new Wayward Fog Babble:
"Seriously, if you had just left this alone and not treated me like your PROPERTY it would have died out on it's own"
"You have to let it go"
"I'm not the traditional type and have never been, I have male friends."
Somebody tell me if these are new and please give me strength/resolve to continue that I'm doing the right thing by insisting that her friendship with someone who has romantic and lustful feelings for her is wrong and I have to do what I can to stop it.

op

--I plan to speak with a lawyer on Saturday about filing a civil restraining order. I think that might make a point.
opt

Nope, not new. Heck they aren't even original, as #1 (take out the property part) and #2 were some of H's fav's.

Did you come clean about your affairs last night?

Have you read SAA yet?

If you know OM's family members' names, you can find their contacts online. Or ask other neighbors if they know. In fact, tell all the neighbors that you're going to get hold of his relatives!

You HAVE to expose to his side! Today!

Hi guys and thanks for responding to my posts.
SAA should be here tonight, if not I go to the bookstore on Sat.
It�s been slowing down a little but I�m not get
ting complacent. It just seems like there�s so much to do and I feel like I want it all to be over so quickly but I know that�s not how it works. Reading almost all of bcboy�s thread (similar situation to mine- and thanks for the suggestion), I can see these things take time to develop; AND it�s my understanding that time is on my side because time can help the chemicals in her brain (i.e. �fog�) to lift (as long as no contact stays no contact). But I digress�


I have not addressed my past infidelities to my WW at this time. I have worked through some of it personally with clergy and a close family member; trying to come to grips with it. I had given our therapist the heads up that it would come up in our next session, but I really wasn�t ready to go there. I know my wife and I think she needs to feel like she�s in a safer place before I divulge it. I anticipate after plan A has taken more effect, NC has been in place for more time, and a couple more therapy sessions. I could feel our counselor trying to work towards it (e.g. �trust� issues, etc) to open the door, but it just didn�t feel right, not yet.

What we did talk about for some time was our definition of this relationship she�s having with OM. True to form, her characterization took about 10 minutes to explain. Right out of the WW handbook, from what I�ve been reading here. Ultimately the words �inappropriate, emotional, and relationship� all came out, although not necessarily in that order.

When I defined the relationship to the therapist as �adultery, secretive, and destructive� (I gave a synopsis from April to today) and said that �proper measures had yet to be taken to eliminate further contact,� and that she had �left the door open,� I made a good point with her, she recoiled, things got a little heated and the therapist changed the subject. Afterwards it seems things began to sink in and all the emotions from the exposure came out on the way home. She got all in my face. She said you have to �let it go� and I said �I�ll let it go when it�s all gone.� I didn�t let any of her fogbabble bother me (thank you MB website!!!!!). She then left for a friend�s house shortly after (it wasn�t him, I checked all my sources) and stayed there till 2.

I�ve been making a warm home for her and being available. Something I will continue to do forever, she�s actually pretty fun to be around; when she snuggled with me on the couch last night it was like I was back in highschool!

But I know the stick part of plan A also has to stay in effect. So, this w/e I will be confronting OM again in person. I also want to try to get into the subject of how to get her on to my phone plan with shared phone records. I know the cell phone is an instrument of destruction when it comes to infidelity (it certainly helped me in MY affairs!). Not sure if we�ve reached that point or if this would be considered a huge LB right now.
ADVICE on the phone thing (I admit I still don�t have a full grasp of all the MB concepts)? Any other advice would also be welcomed as well.
Thanks MB posters. We (I) have a lot of work to do, but I could have never made it in the last two weeks without you.

Opt.