Hi everyone
Im new to this forum and would love to get some help regarding my situation.
Have been married with no problems for 10 years, Have 4 beautiful boys and was getting on with life until husband destroyed it all by having an affair. We are still together and the affair was stopped as soon as i discovered it but the total devastation and after effects of the affair are ongoing daily.
Here is our story.
I was 18 and he was 19 when we got married, we were both eachothers firsts in every sense and despite having 4 kids and being bogged down with the chaos that a big family brings I can honestly say we were happy.
Then after 10 years of total trust and care I was shocked to discover my husband was having an affair, I cant explain how I knew but I just did, he was acting cruel towards me (something he has never ever done before) and I have always beleived that instincts are there for an essential reason so when my instincts told me to start snooping on his internet activity I did and discovered that he had been googling hotels and activities that i knew he had no intention of doing with me (like bowiling and eating out). So immediately I confronted him and he immediately confessed all. He had been having an affair with a coworker for the past 2 months, they had slept together twice and he was planning to leave me in January because he resented me because he couldnt go out and play football with his friends when i had a newborn baby (baby number 4) and needed his help around the house etc. Pathetic right? but being a mum I swallowed that one and just set off trying to sort out the devastation he had just unleashed on me. First I had a total meltdown of crying screaming and basically didnt eat or drink anything for days, second I asked him if he wanted the other woman, he immediately said no and ended things with her, then I asked him if he was prepared for the immense amount of hard work it was going to take to repair the damage he said yes, he never apologised, grovelled or anything like that, no tears no remorse as if what he did was a blip nothing more.
Its been a year since the affair but the next few things I remember are the things that will haunt me for ever.
In order for me to escape the immense pain i was in i concentrated on helping him deal with his shame and his thoughts, I sat there for days hearing every single devastating detail of the affair, I sat there as his friend and not his wife and I listened to all his insecurities about sleeping with the other woman as he has not had previous experience a part from me, i sat there and listened as he described where he touched her and how he kissed her neck and if his performance was any good etc. I just listened and i just listened and just listened. I really wish i hadnt but I did. Now im left with graphic images and its devastating.
Once this initial phase was over I became obsessed with discovering who this other woman was (i dont mean who in the sense of her name appearance etc cause I knew who she was but i mean in the sense of her character). I discovered that she knew he was married and didnt care, I dicovered that she was trying to ruin his carreer by telling everyone where they worked what they had done (my husband called in sick to look after me when i discovered the affair and was in a catatonic state and she got him in trouble with work by telling people he was not ill he was looking after me cause they had been having an affair and i discovered it this led to him having to go through a disciplinary procedure with work that led to him not having a full paycheck which added insult to injury as our kids missed out on xmas in every sense). I was so angry with her for not only sleeping with my husband but also for her actions afterwards so I thought it would only be fair to tell everyone my side of the story and wrote to everyone she was friends with on Facebook telling them the truth of what happened and thats when I discovered who she really was, I got innondated by emails from her friends (people who didnt know me and i had never met) telling me how my husband was not the first guy she did this with, that she specialised in going after married men, that in the past 5 years alone she has broken 6 homes, that they were surprised to hear that a decent person like my husband (whom they knwo because they work with him) would have fallen for someone who everyone knew as a homewrecker.
You have to understand that up until that point my husband thought the other woman was a nice sweet girl and that he had duped her etc, he was always protective of her in conversations and wanted to take the blame fully so when i showed him the unbias information i had gathered he finally started to realise that the sweet little innocent woman he betrayed his family for knew exactly what she was doing and in fact he was the person who had been duped used and pretty much played.
Ok so once again here we are im helping him find out things and work through his issues yet it all comes at a price, because i now look at him as a pure Idiot, he got played and he fell for it. so on one hand i help him see the light cause i cant bare for him to take on the blame but on the other hand its devastating to out recovery because its yet another blow in the sense that it highlits his stupidity and naivness.
Im sorry I know this is really long to read but the details are really importaint in this situation because thats what makes this affair impossible to get over and i need help because i need to keep my family together.
Anyway to cut this saga short the affair happened a year ago and here are the things that are totally becoming impossible to overcome.
1)As i have detailed knowledge of the sexual contact during the affair it i have images that haunt me and dont know how to get rid of them.
2)They did not use protection and I ended up catching things from the other woman i feel violated as i had no idea he was bringing that filth to my body and im finding it really hard to forgive him for that.
3)He has not reacted the way I would expect a person to react (as seen in movied heard about from friends stories etc) he has not grovelled begged or even apologised crying for the affair.
4)He says he loves me and want to be here and no where else, and to be fair he has taken alot of verbal abuse over the past year yet he has not made any progress or attempt to repair the marriage simply cause he says he doesent know how ( i dont know how either but atleast i try)
5)I have this immense obsession with wanting him to hate her with every ounce of his soul, not only for having had an affair with her but for her being such a vile human specimen. (he says he simply doesent care about her enough to hate her)
6)We can and do talk about anything but he is emotionally shut down towards the affair so i feel isolated in dealing with it alone.
7)Im so angry all the time, im so deeply sad all the time and i just miss the loving trusting person i used to be before the affair but dont know how to be that person again.
8)I dont know how to get him to understand the immensity of my sadness, we have tryed councelling but he is just incapable of connecting with my pain.
9)He still works with he other woman and although they dont talk or have any contact at work its making my life a misery as everytime he goes to work i just fall apart knowing he is in the same space as that vile being.
10) Although i know he has suffered enough due to this mistake that he wont be repeating it again anytime soon i cant shrug off the feeling that he hasnt learned enough or been humiliated enough that he wont do this to me again.

If there is anyone out there that has any suggestions please let me know as I really want to keep my family together but i cant do it under these conditions.
Thanks

Hi brutallyhonest,

I'm sorry that you find your self here.

This thread started by Mark may help you with the images
Managing Memories

ST

Hey Staytogther thanks for that link i thinks it makes alot of sense and will be showing it to my husband both in hope to bring him understanding that i dont just sit there remembering things just for the pure fun of torturing myself and also so he can understand what i mean when i say (and i always say this) that the only way to squash the bad memories is to replace them with good ones so he better hurry up and start creating good ones.

Hey there, I'm a newbie and still very much just trying to get through my WWs recent affair but from your story, it sounds like a lot of the work may be on your side.

A few thoughts:

- #8 says you tried counseling. For how long? Sounds like it has stopped. Who stopped it, him or you? Have you tried just going on your own?

- Have you read SAA? It's a great book and one of the lines I remember explicitly is "don't expect your WS to show remorse or regret". No doubt your WS feels an intense amount of guilt over this but he's not going to tell you. You need to accept that.

- Yeah, those images. They are haunting. I stopped asking my WW for specifics after the first few times. I still have the problem so I don't know what to say.

- You say he still works with the OW. That needs to end pronto! Tell him he needs to get a new job right away. That might diffuse some of the feelings you are having. Are you still worried about a new affair?

- Are your kids OK? What are the ages? Do they know at all? Do others know? Doesn't sound like affair is on-going but you never know. From what I've heard, intense exposure helps diffuse any further thoughts of As by the WS.

- If you are religously inclined - pray, a lot. Some days its all I've got...

Hi Bh28,

I'm in London too. staytogether is elsewhere in England. There are a few more of us Brits here in this club that we'd rather not be members of. Welcome to MB.

What type of counselling did you have? Was it with Relate? Was it with a specialist in infidelity? I went to a counsellor for 4 sessions. I responded to a flyer in my Dr's surgery. This counsellor was trained to look into the childhood causes of the problems the client now faces. My talking about my childhood did nothing to help me either stop the affair (which I suspected, but could not prove, was continuing) or deal with my obsessing and unhappiness. I had a great deal do be unhappy about, and stopping the affair and starting a programme of recovery would have helped with that, but the counsellor knew nothing about how to recover from infidelity. Was this your experience with counselling?

If you can possibly afford it, contact the MB coaching centre and make an appointment for telephone coaching. There is a poster, TravelMonkey, who had used the coaching centre from the UK. I'll give her a shout and ask her to tell you her experiences. Each hour-long consultation costs about $200 (plus the cost of the call). The coaches do not counsel couples together at first, so it will not matter if you do not get your H involved yet.

Your recovery does not stand a chance while H and OW still work together. Please read this advice from Dr Harley. In it he says

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Dr Harley's response to this letter deals with a work place affair and he says the same thing; the husband has to move away from where the OW works.

It is unlikely that your husband will be able to establish a meaningful relationship with you until his lover is no longer available to him. While she may be in a new location at work, I doubt that they will be able to avoid making contact with each other. So the first thing you and he need to discuss is moving to a place where he cannot make contact with her.

To provide an environment free of temptation to your husband, I usually recommend the drastic step of moving to another state. While that may sound impossible, or at least impractical, at first, moves are not all that unusual in America. In fact, it may give your marriage a whole new breath of fresh air. It will help you form a lifestyle that you both enjoy much more than the one you have now (using my Policy of Joint Agreement). And it will certainly make it difficult for your husband to keep his relationship with his lover alive. He can still do it, of course, but most addicts don't want to be addicted, and lack of easy availability is usually all it takes to break the habit.

Bh, have you read ALL Dr Harley's advice in the How to Survive Infidelity columns on this website? There is a link on the right hand side of this page. Please read all the letters about dealing with a wayward husband AND dealing with a wayward wife. You will see that Dr Harley is adamant about some things, and the affair partners not working together is one of them.

You are putting the cart before the horse by focusing on your inability to recover while your H still works with OW. It is very likely that they are continuing their affair on some level, and that might be why he is unemotional and unremorseful towards you. I had no idea how normal it was for affairs to continue after D Day until I found MB. My own H's affair continued after 3 discoveries by me, and when I came here I saw how normal that was.

We have lost a great thread on affair partners working together in the recent meltdown (several months of posts were lost this month in a technical glitch at MB). However, I think a thread on false recovery will have survived. I will bump it onto the front page of this forum. Please look out for it.

Please don't make the mistake of demonising OW and blaming her for the affair. Just remember that everything you say about her needs to be said about your H. He might not make a make a habit of having affairs, much less with married people, but he was the one who was married to you, and the father of four children whose lives he should have protected. He was not tricked into bed; he knew that he was committing adultery. It would not have mattered whether she was the Ho of Babylon or Mother Teresa on her first outing; your H was unfaithful to you and he needs to recognise how wrong that was.

Bh28,

I have bumped the False Recovery thread.

I am sorry to note that one of the last posts recorded on it (more recent ones were lost) was from stillstanding2, who, as you can see from her signature line, thought that she was in recovery when she posted then.

It turned out over the summer that she was not, and her H was still involved in an affair in some way. They are now divorcing because he refuses to end his affairs. However, she had no idea of this when she posted for many months.

It is staggeringly easy to be fooled because you do not want to believe that your once loving husband could repeatedly destroy you like this. Your H is still working with OW and you and your children are not safe until this stops.

Hey Indarkenss
thanks for your advice, as far as the councelling goes, we have had marital councelling and we have both had individual councelling separately, he has even tryed hypnotherapy to help him understand my pain. I lost hope in the marital councelling because after the 3rd session he made a comment that just infuiated me to the point i just didnt want to go to councelling again, he admitted that he was going to councelling as a challenge to see if anyone can "Crack him" becaus in his stupid way of thinking he is not emotional and therefore cannot be cracked, that infuriated me and made me loose hope in councelling, i do give him one brownie poing though, he is the one who found this site and told me about it (allbeit after several threats that if he didnt start working on the marriage he is gonna loose me) so i know on some level he wants to do the right thing he just doesent have a clue where to start, so in all honesty it was me who stopped the marital councelling not him.
As far as the images go i would say that the above link sent by staytogether might help you too as it makes alot of sense.
Job wise is so suffocating its unbarable, as mentioned above the other woman ensured that my husbands position at work was put at risk. When the affair was exposed he put in for a transfer to a different store but due to her revealing the affair and him having disciplinary action put on his record due to him calling in sick when was looking after me (and that was seen as a break in procedure because he wasnt sick i was and he should have taken carers leave not sickness leave and other stupid company policies) his record was ruined and this made the transfer fall through so he is stuck in his job at the store he is at until his record clears. He wont look for another job as he is extreamly well paid for what he does and cannot find a matching vacancy especially in this financial climate and the recession, he is truly stuck working with that vile thing. Also to be honest there is a part of me that gets some sort of security that as long as he works with her he has to be reminded of what he did, he is a laughing stock of his colleagues because he fell for the store homewrecking slut, everyone knows what he did where he works and they wont hesitate to contact me should he do anything like that again, but this also brings its own problems like the company christmas party that she will be at and im going to, i have become obsessed with loosing weight and looking my best in time for the party, i go gym 3 times a week restrict what i eat to 1000 calories and jog run and swim at every opportunity i feel that if i look my best at the christmas party ill be making a statement but its exhausting and i have just spent 10 days in bed ill after having over done it and havent been there for my kids and feel ashamed but i cant help it i need to be my best at that christmas party i dont know why.
Kids know and kids really have suffered, they are all boys aged 8, 5, 3, and 1. I have no bond with the baby as the affair happened shortly after he was born and i couldnt breast feed him afrer the affair as my body went into shock and i could no longer produce milk, that devestated me as i breastfed all the other chidren and in a way i dont feel that im good enough to be their mum right now so i let him take over their care. I do love my babies so much but i went through such a difficult abusive childhood myself that i kept thinking i rather not be here than be here in this shell of a state, and i hate to admit this but i did attempt suicide 2wice when i discovered the affair, im not proud of that fact but it was so devastating finding the only person on this plantet that i trusted take that trust and throw it away. As my name says it i am brutally honest and as i really do want help i will share what has happened however much i am ashamed of my own actions.

Sugarcane tanks for all the information, money is not an issue and if it means i can get help for my marriage ill work extra shifts and raise the funds needed for the councelling, we tryed relate but the waiting list was too long, we have both had individual councelling (mine oging his was only a 6 week course) and we have had family councelling (in england this seems to be the equivalent to marriage councelling) but as the name suggests i found it unhelpful and foudn the thereapist really inexperienced. I would love to try councelling with organisation/person. It really sounds like we both have had the same experience with councelling in the UK, i also had one concentrate on my childhood etc with the same results as you.
As far as them working together the situations is impossible to change as stated above however i did ensure that her job was monitored so if she has any further relationships within the store she will be sacked for bringing the company into disrepute, i achieved this by putting together all the evidence i had collected regarding her previous conduct with married men in the store (she has a 3year old child who's father is a unknown due to its being possibly belonging to 3 married men who work in the store, seriousely this womans antics are beyond beleif), i gave this unbias evidence to the store manager who has put it in her HR file as everytime she sleeps with a married manager they end up having to leave the store and managment are getting fed up with that but couldnt do anything about it without evidence so i gave them that and feel proud.
Im no angel i have ensured that her life is exposed and that she has had maximum humiliation that she wont even look in my husbands direction never mind have any contact. since the affair was exposed a year ago they have had contact 3 times and all those times were due to store procrdure where he had to hand her the store keys or something similar otherwise they stay well away from eachother and thats one this i am sure of. I made sure she hates his guts but thats my line of defence under these circumstances, i just cant help it if he has to work with her then its gonna be my way.
As far as demonising OW a part from the fact she truly deserves it i also feel that if i blame her then i can deal with it if i truly had to sit here and think of all the horror he put me through and to think he done it with his full senses uncurrupted then there would be no marriage cause i cant even put into words without crying my eyes out what horrible things his did to me after the affair.
And another importaint piece of information that i havent shared yet that will clarify how truly horrid this woman was is that when they slept together the first time it went horribly wrong, and my husband came to his senses and attempted to end the affair, she told him that the reason she was and i quote "as lively as a corpse in bed" was because she had been raped, he felt guilty and they were intimate again a second and final time with the same results as the first time but whats horrifying about this is that she admitted she had never been raped and used that because she was sensing she was loosing him, WHAT KIND OF PERSON DOES THAT? how can i not demonise her?

oh forgot to say sugarcane if you or anyone else can reccomend any literature/ councelling organisations that i can access from the uk please forward the details. I am desperate for appropriate intensive marriage/affair councelling.
Any books etc that me and hubby can use together would be great too,

Bh28, your H still working with OW is a problem partly because it is a form of contact and it easily allows the affair to resume. You might think that management is watching them both, but I am sure there is a lot they can do both during work hours and before or after work. People have had sex in car parks and toilets at work before. He might be meeting her on the way to work - even just to talk to her and be alone for a few minutes each day - and no-one would ever know.

But work is also a problem because while they are together, your mind cannot be at peace and you cannot start your personal recovery. Even if you are correct about management keeping them apart (and I doubt that they can do this completely), you are unhappy that he sees her every day. Your unhappiness will not stop while this situation continues.

The problem is that the above is the truth. He did horrible things to you after the affair, but also DURING the affair; by having the affair.

However, I do see what you mean about demonising OW as a way of coping. I think we all do that at some time. I just don't want you to ignore his complete responsibility for where you are now. If you do that, he will not have any incentive to change his own hard-headedness. He ignored the fact that he was a married father of four to get into bed with her in the first place. It is incredible that she should have pulled the rape stunt, but while that says a lot about her, his doing anything with her at all says a great deal about him. Don't blame her for his weaknesses. He has to understand how lowering his boundaries allowed him to get anywhere near to having a relationship with her. If he does not see how he got close enough to her to have sex with her, he will not see when it starts to happen again with someone else. Believe me, you will not feel one bit better if he gets involved with a saintly virgin next time.

You did not tell me whether you had read all the free materials on this site. You must do so and really understand the Harley method. Meanwhile, the most important book you can get is Surviving an Affair, by Dr Harley and his daughter, Dr Jennifer Harley Chalmers. I have not seen this book on sale in a UK bookshop (and I have searched widely for it; I bought mine in the USA) but you can order it online from this site, at a discount I believe. You can probably also get it at Amazon.com.

You should go to the Harley coaching centre and leave all other marriage counselling alone for now. I have not used the coaching service myself, but many posters who have tried conventional counselling as well as the Harleys say that the Harleys are by far the most effective.

I was shocked to hear about your H giving you an STD. Have you both had full medical treatment and has it all cleared up? Have you had repeat HIV tests? I do hope so, given this woman's history.

Is your H reading this forum? Does he know you have begun posting here?

I don't think the company has dealt with this correctly. By refusing him a transfer they have ensured that the affair partners continue to work together, which is not good management.

It should not matter that your H was disciplined for staying off work. It is in the company's interest to transfer him so that the affair no longer hovers over the workplace. He or you need to put this to them. Companies these days do not want to be implicated in harassment or other personal problems between employees. Tell them that if he is denied a transfer he might leave and claim constructive dismissal. He is trying to save his marriage and they are making this impossible.

You need to make sure that any move ends contact entirely. There would be no point his moving if the different branches are in contact with each other, e.g. through management meetings. Her name needs to disappear from his life altogether. No group emails, no office parties. If that cannot happen with a transfer then he needs to find a new job.

Please read the thread "She still works with him" in this forum if you need further convincing.

Have you read the "false recovery" thread yet?

I cant deny that your right in the above comments regarding them working together after all the managed the affair for 2 months undetected meeting in the carpark after etc. And i do hate so much that they work together, i dont worry that the affair is ongoing hoever after reading a few posts i am concerned it might resume if enough time passes and he lets his guard down again and she gets over hating him so much, she might just do it for the fun of it to be honest after all i have put her through hell.
And yes i cant start my personal recovery infact im self distructing by being in a virtual competition with her in my head. I constantly ask has she put on lost weight how is she looking today and give him the 3rd degree about her when he gets in from work so i feel like im pushing him to notice her at work for my own benefits when all he wants to do is forget he ever went there.
Demonising her yeah your right again but for now it gets me through the day its easy to hate someone you dont know than someone you loved and trusted so much, i have so much anger and maybe the best place for it to be directed is at her as when i get angry at him he looks like a lost kid doesent knwo what to say or how to react just sits there quietly and takes it, i dont find that helpful it feels like banging your head against a brick wall.
I havent started reading the free material on this site as i wanted to see if it was genuine and from the people in this forum i see that it has helped and i will start reading it but i dont want to do it alone i want him to participate, He doesent know i post on here however he is the one who told me about the site, i dont think he is aware of the forum side of the site and to be honest i rather keep it that way just because i can be more honest if he isnt reading it.
Lastly he passed on stds and as i was breasfeeding my baby i insited he got tested for everything immediately, thats including hiv and we have both received the appropriate treatment so i have got on top of that issue, Infact it was my priority as i said he is the only person i have ever been intimate with and i value my "clenliness" therefore him bringing that home to me was devastating and on this issue he gets full blame i dont demonise her for that, shes a slut and thats it but he is a complete moron for violating my body like that and i dont know if ill ever forgive him for that.

My heart goes out to you, Bh.

While you should indeed get your H to read, surely there is no reason for you not to read as soon as you can? You need to understand why we tell you what we do about the workplace and other things. It is because Dr Harley has learned, through trial and error, how to help couples end affairs and recover from them. He gives us this advice based on 30 years' experience. He does not see any point in raking up childhoods and talking about traumas from years ago, because therapists who do this have a dismal record in infidelity success. Dr Harley focuses on stopping the affair, making sure another one never starts, and rebuilding romantic love thereafter. His method is very practical and focused on specific, measurable outcomes.

Some of Dr Harley's columns are written for couples, where both spouses have recommitted to the marriage. However, some are written for the BS who has a WS who doesn't "get it" (i.e. how much work they have to do to recover) or is still wayward. There is no reason for you to wait for your H - who doesn't get it - to get it before reading yourself. Help yourself now; if you cannot sleep or think about anything else, reading Dr Harley now will help your anxiety a great deal.

You are correct about the affair resuming after the fuss has died down. PLEASE read the "False recovery" thread right now. You have no idea how normal renewed contact is. It is almost guaranteed if the parties work together.

Please keep your H away from this forum. If we give you advice on spying, for example, that will all be wasted if he can see what we are telling you to do.

Have a look in his internet history and see if he has already browsed here.

Sugarcane your opening a can of worms i thought i had shut the lid on. I totally agree with the work situation and if he tryed hard enough he would have made a transfer happen by now and saved me the horrendous pain i go through now do to them still working together. Ouch that hurt i cryed my eyes out reading Dr H advise on the cutting contact and being adamant of them not working together. My WS should be sparing of my feelings atleast if as he says he wouldnt go near her again still doesent help ease my insecurity. As mentioned before im in total army mode getting ready for that stupid party and im going to put myself through hell, and what for??

PS im ordering book now but so scared of all the things its gonna open up that i thought i had squashed by making excuses, i cryed just reading the phrase "Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11" it makes me feel so uncared about and disregarded, How can he just go to work everyday and let me go through hell? how did you deal with the revelations taht werent so easy to swallow that you found in the book?

Is that last question to me, about my reactions, or is it still part of your conversation with your absent H?!

I did not react as you are doing now. My reaction was more of smacking my own forehead and wondering how I could have been such a fool. I was so glad to read the materials because they gave me a real course of action and a plan. Other affair advice that I had found in books or on the internet was of the "look after yourself; cry when you need to; ask your H to hold you; take a warm bath" kind of claptrap. Absolutely no help with the nagging fear that the affair had continued and simply gone further underground. Dr Harley tells you to snoop to find out more, and people on this forum tell you how to do that. Dr Harley says to expose the affair, and people on this forum tell you how you might do that. They help you write exposure letters to the other spouse.

I did not post here until long after my H had changed jobs, but as soon as I read advice to expose to OWH I did so, by email. That put an end to the lingering phone-based EA that continued for 6 months after H gave up travelling.

I ate and drank up Dr Harley's and this forum's advice because I had been suffering badly in false recovery and not finding any concrete help (and not having any common sense!). Finding the columns was like removing my head from under the hammer that was hitting it.

Please stop being afraid Bh. You have nothing to be afraid of from reading and learning and eventually acting. Killing this affair will lift a huge weight from you. Your thread asks "It's been a year. When will things get better?" and the answer is "when you kill the affair". Only then can you begin recovery. You have been swirling around in this mess for a year and you have not started out of the blocks - just like me, one year after D Day.

Those worms are better opened up and dealt with than infesting your marriage. Don't be scared any more.

I might not get time to post until tomorrow evening, but I will look in on you then. In the meantime, please read every article on this site, and the thread that I bumped.

PS, don't go to the stupid party, and he must not go either. What are you thinking?? I take it this party is not compulsory? If he goes, that is yet another contact with her (even if you are there too) and if you go, you will be dying inside. Why are you even considering putting yourself through this?

Both of you need to never see this woman again. You might make a temporary exception for work while he finds a new job, but there is no need to volunteer for this misery.

hi sugarcane
had conversation with WH regarding job and he admitted that he feels that he cant change jobs mainly because he feels with the current situation he faces at home he cannot take a senior position within a new company as he will not be able to do a good job as he is too distracted with this post affair conflict that we are having DAILY, one day im angry and lashing out the next im sad and miserable and not coping so he has often been late for work etc due to ongoing fights. I told him that the problem was his job and thats why these things are happening when he is about to go to work and I reminded him that I have put up with him working with OW for a year now because our kids need food etc so i would be sensible should he move jobs and not pull any stunts as i understand how delicate a new start at a new job can be and how first impressions are vital. Its really frustrating me when i think that when he wanted to get in bed with OW his job, family etc didnt matter but now he can do something positive all of a sudden things bog him down and insecurities arise, where the heck were these insecurities as he was taking his pants off to get into bed with OW?
How would you advise i handle job situation? issue ultimatum? or carry on having nervous breakdown everytime he leaves fof work and hope the message gets through?
I also hate the company he works for because as you spotted in previous conversation they did not make things easy for post affair recovery, they stopped his transfer because he was too valuable for them to loose and didnt care about family situation because as far as they are concerned he brought it on himself, i even attempted to have meeting with company director to plead with him regarding transfer but was turned down as he advised he has to put business first (luckily that direcortor has since been fired due to bad managment decisions regarding other issue and i cant say im disappointed infact Karma is doing a pretty good job all round).
Regarding Christmas party i figured that i have to go to show everyone how strong we are and hopefully stop any further affairs, and although i will go through hell and back that night i have to do it, i want to ruin the xmas party for OW, she is so scared of me (due to information i have on her) that the pure fact of me being present at xmas party will send her into a nervous brakedown and i cant help but really look forward to that. She has no social life outside of work all her friends/ family work at the same store so me ruining her only social outing of the year its something im not sure how to give up. I dont intend on causing any trouble, talking about or to her, just the fact that i will be there will be enough to brake her as she will be expecting me to start something and i simply wont.
Lastly I have found letter WH has written and sent to OW, its really brutal and i dont know if i should share it on here in order to demonstrate what he thinks of her and affair etc. Its a very strong letter and will make you squirm but its what he did all on his own and without my interfering so wanted to get advice on weather letter is good or bad sign.

Hi Brutallyhonest28,

Sugarcane asked me to pop over to relay my experience of coaching with Steve Harley.

Sessions are $195 dollars and start at midday our time, right through to midnight. They are supposed to be 45-50 mins but frequently go over. The first one is giving a summary of the situation and Steve immediately sussed WS out. He wanted to know about OW as well.

I felt very at ease talking with Steve. It was wonderful to talk to someone real who didn't judge me for wanting to save my marriage.

He gave me phrases to use and asked me to persuade WS to call him. Luckily, my knowledge of WS helped me do this and they had a session, which by all accounts didn't go too well. Steve, in my next session, gave me a recap of what they had discussed.

I had three other sessions where he gave me advice on how to continue, how to handle situations and phrases to use with WS. At all times, Steve was concerned with my own strength and well being before he asked me to continue. He wanted to know that I had a support system and was doing ok.

I haven't scheduled any more sessions because I don't feel that there is much more advice we can get from Steve until WS and I move onto the next stage.

Reading your situation, I think that you both would benefit enormously from calling Steve. You have a lot to get to grips with and Steve will be able to sift through it and give you both a plan that will get you on track.

Good luck!

thanks TM really good to hear from someone who used the coaching, I definitley plan on booking an appointment, i have also bought Dr H book surviving the affiar and it will be delivered november 2nd so i have taken steps now to hopefully stop this mess.

I have a few questions regarding the coaching if thats ok

1) can steve coach both of us together or do we have to have separate consultations, what i mean by that is do we always have to talk to him separately?

2) What happens if steve advises us that there is no hope of a successful marriage could that happen and where would i go from a revelation like that?

3) WS would be more than willing to talk to steve so there is no persuading needed im just scared that i will be blamed for things as i have been ragingly angry at WS since A.

Another note that I have to tell everyone about is this morning i discovered WH has posted on forum. I havent asked if he knows that im posting. He is the one who discovered site first and told me about it so i dont know what to do. Would it work if we are both getting separate advice? or will things get messy. Has it ever happened before on here where WS and BS are both posting. What problems can i expect from that, his post is called struggling to save marriage as i am WH .