During plan A you make it difficult for them to hang out by asking your WH to watch the kids (spend quality time with his teens) while you go do something (times he would otherwise rendevous with her), you might find other occasions to squelch a good time for them. Nicely and innocently since you are in plan A.

Once you go to plan B you don't get in their way....you step back and let them have 'fun', hopefully crash and burn but at least have him start to miss all you do for him. And step back to reclaim your own self.

claygal, yes it would be good if the OWH could call your H. Did you also get the OWH's email address so you can start forwarding her emails to him? I would not respcnd to her at all, just forward her emails to her H and cc her when you do it.

Did you read my post about Plan B? And do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

By all means! Make your H face OMH and see what he's doing! You, you're just his wife, it's ok to hurt your wife, if you need to be happy, you know...But the OW's H - that's a whole other ball of wax!

IDK, if it was me, I'd be doing all kinds of things to make their A VERY uncomfortable. Not outright confrontation but things like taking the kids to his office when you know she'll be there, or stopping by his place with some dumb excuse (the water pipe broke!), stuff like that. Let her know you WILL be around. Ask OWH to do the same.

And keep up on the exposure! "Hi, WH's Mom, I just wanted to call and see if you've heard from your son. He was supposed to take the kids for ice cream, but I drove by his place to see if he wanted me to drop them off, but OW's car is there, so it looks like getting a quickie is more important than your grandkids today. Maybe he's told you why he couldn't make it? I'd like to tell the kids why."

Stuff like that?

my situation is a little different in that we live half way across the country from OW. They have mostly had email conrrespondence for the last months.

His parents do know, although his mom thinks he still walks on water and will say anything to justify what he has done. His father is apparently mad at me for telling my kids, although it i seally none of his business. I don't think it is worth calling him to explain, he probably won't listen anyway.

Talked to OWH again today. He sent me a list of phone numbers from our area codes to see what they were. One of them was my husbands, another was the cell phone of one of his friends. A phone he used to call OW. He also now knows what comes up when my WH uses his email to send text messages, so he can watch that too.

He is going to continue monitoring from his end. I encouraged him to tell his kids.

OW is still saying that she can't take the drama and won't pick up the phone again. I think she knows that she is being monitored. I have communicated with her that she WILL be hearing from me again if I find out there is more contact.

Everyone on MB is right though. I didn't call OWH last fall and I should have. It probably would have put a stop to it then and there. My marriage is still in limbo, and probably wouldn't be if I had exposed right away. And right now I feel that my marriage may be over because I didn't.

Oops, I forgot it was long distance. Maybe someone else will have better ideas.

claygal, does the OWH know that they were in contact again yesterday?

Ya, it was Wednesday actually, and he knows

Dear Claygal
In new to this forum but just came accross your thread and couldnt stop reading it, I just want to say how much i admire you and respect all the people that are helping you on this site.
You have acted with dignity and maturity that in a situation that would have driven me to the nearest mental health institution is admirable. I think your husband will one day thank you and admire you so much for your strenght however right now he is in too much of a selfish/self pitying state, I wonder if he would have had the strength and courage to fight this hard for you should the situation been reversed, maybe one day u can point that out to him, ask him how would he feel if he was in your position. When he blames you for telling the girls ask him how does he think he would have handled the situaion if he was in your shoes. I think that kids are not stupid however young they are, they do pick up on the vibes when the parents are going through something and all the literature i have read about this always suggests telling the children whats happening (in a gentle and helpful way the can understand not in a taking sides way, I think that he is the one who needs to do the right thing for the kids weather thats being in a marriagie with you or not. The way i see it is that however much you can sit there and doubt weather he loves you and wants the marriage to work, there is no doubt he loves his girls and he is making the same minimal effort towards sorting himself out for their sake as he is doing towards sorting out his marriage and that makes me feel sorry for him but also gives me hope that he isnt acting the way he is with his senses fully intact.
Your Husband comes accross as one of those guys who likes things he cant have, if you start to move on with your life he chases you, if you make yourself available and the other woman cuts him off he chases her, thats just not fair to either of you and he is treating you both with the same disregard therefore stop feeling that what they have is in anyway special or anyway near being in the soulmate category, if she was his soulmate they would be together, she wouldnt be snuggling up to her won husband everynight and he wouldnt be flirting with you. I dont know much about devine things but i doubt anyone would see that as a soulmate relationship. As far as your contact with the other woman please remind her that you have not done anything wrong u were living your life and didnt ask for what they did to you. Tell her to stop bothering you and to concentrate on her marriage rather than obsess about yours and reporting to you what your husband does in a way of contacting her. Tell her she needs to remember you and her husband are the victims. She seems to try and make you feel responsible for the mistakes she made and thats just not acceptable.
The reality of the situation (and im sorry that i have to say this) is that if your husband wants to contact the other woman there is nothing you can do about it, you have done everything you can so far and its not something in your control right now so dont ask him about it and let him burn himself by playing with that fire, he reminds me of kids that get obsessed by doing something just cause their parents told them not to. The more you ask him or talk to him about the contact he has with her the more he wants to do it, my advice is to tell him once and mean it, tell him that as long as he wants to have the option of ever being a family with you again he will never contact that woman again, simple as that, no if or buts or excuses, "if you call her again or if ever find out u called her again from this day on then there will be no option for us to be a family" so in essence say next time you think about making contact with her u need to think about what you might be giving up for the sake of an email/phonecall.
And remember no matter what she does or what they may have shared she will never be you, she was never his wife (he never stood up in front of people and promised to love her forever) she was never the mother of his kids, you are and she will never take that away from you.
I hope my advice has not offended anyone or interfered in yout program, I just felt so strongly about your situation because you seem such a lovely person and what your going through is so unfair.
take care

Thank you BH. Your letter was just what I needed right now. I right now plan to continue plan A for a few more weeks. Not mention OW or our relationship. During this time OWH is going to keep an eye on phone calls and hopefully emails from his end, but I am not going to mention to my husband. In 2 weeks I plan on writing a plan B letter.

This will force him to have to spend the holidays alone. I will be very clear in letter, that he can ONLY come back when he has made the decision to recommit to marriage, and end the affair FOREVER. No ifs, ands, or buts. He has already told me that he will not contact her again. She has told him more than once not to contact her again (I hope she sticks by her guns.) My hope is he will get very lonely, and the fog will begin to lift.

My life just keeps getting better and better. My mother, who has never really liked my H, knows about affair, and does not want me to take him back. She just called me and hung up on me. My good friend embezzled large amounts of money from my family and we found out in June. Last March, my dad, who left us for OW when I was 12, passed away, and 3rd wife, who hates me did not allow me to see him before he died, or go to funeral. So.....I guess my mom turning her back on me is just icing on the cake.

dont be offended by your mum sometimes its hard to sit back and watch the people you love make decisions that you dont agree with and can clearly see that it will cause them pain. Your mum was there when this all kicked off and she probably thinks you and your girls deserve better than someone who isnt fully committing to you but the heart wants what it wants and you want your marriage, im not here to judge if thats right or wrong as its your decision but hopefully the people on here have given you good advice so far in order to stop any further pain. Also by what you said above your mum has gone through what you have gone through and has come out the other side thats probably why she is adamant that you should not be with H, however had she and your father worked things out and come out the other side well then she would be more supportive, she can only advice you as to her own life experience. Im sure if H was to sort himself out and make you happy once again she will soon accept that but right now cut her some slack and put yourself in her shoes and think if that was one of your girls going through what your going through you would want to rip their H heart out and wisk daughter as far away from him as you can. Call your mum remind her that you appreciate and love her but that you love H and want your marriage and would love her to support you anyway she can with that.

Thank you. I have done that. My step dad died 3 years ago. Part of me wonders if she doesn't think she will be less lonely if I am single too. I don't discuss much of this with her, and she doesn't see me upset. I understand what you are saying too. The older my mom gets, the more control she wants to have over my life. Telling me how to parent etc... i just feel like tonight I am getting it from all sides. At some point my life has to get back to some sort of normal.

Don't let family and friends dictate your life. They can be IN your life - alongside you - or they can be outside your life, if they choose to not honor your wishes and thoughts. You can survive without them. I learned that the hard way, after decades of trying to placate everyone but myself.

Thanks Cat,

I am crashing today. I can't see him today. There is no way I can meet his Ens today. Today I don't feel strong, just broken and tired. Honestly, I feel I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown. this is all just too much for me

Claygal your entitled to bad days and the fact that you recognise that your having a bad day goes a long way to tackling it. U have hade a rough time with WH and the other non affair related problems so u need a day to yourself, what makes you happy? have you tryed just having a bath, grooming doing your hair and make up just for the sake of it? not for WH, appearance sake but just to make yourself feel pampered? glam yourself up curl up in bed and watch some comedy do anything that makes you happy and see if that helps. There will always be a tomorrow when u can start to deal with lifes claptrap for today try and have a day off

Thanks BH,

I am planning on doing just that. I have time for myself this morning, and this afternoon girls and I have an activity planned. Sometimes this just gets to be too much. I know that God is with me, I just have a hard time understanding why I am going through all of this. It is hard for me to say,"God, I know you have a plan for me, and I know these trials are meant to make me stronger, to teach me something that I need to learn." I just want to say, "God, why is all of this happening right now. I can't take anymore"

You don't have to see him if you don't feel up to it!

I am sorry you are having a rough day today....

While I was in Plan A, it was more waves of "I can't do this" a few times a day. When I had those moments, I would throw myself into a chore, take a shower, do something with the kids, etc. to collect myself. I think it's just to give your mind a chance to take a break and build up some more strength.

Do you have a girlfriend you can go out to dinner with or go shopping with just to do something fun to take your mind off things? Or take up a new hobby, yoga class, etc, something positive to think about? just some ideas...

Be strong. You CAN do this. Just 2 more weeks. Hang in there!

Thanks SQ. Getting the phone call from my friend has helped take my mind off of things. I am counting the days.....

Claygal,

The feeling of hopelessness can come from what we expected to happen not coming to pass. This is why I stress having no expectations in Plan A. We want to see progress but it's like pushing something heavy. We put effort into it and nothing much seems to happen. Yet all along the whole thing might be right on the verge of breaking loose and beginning to pick up speed. We think we are having no progress when what we are doing is confusing progress and movement. Just because a thing is not moving does not mean it isn't making progress and moving is not a real indicator that it is making progress.

Steve Harley told someone a story that he related to me that I found to be the perfect analogy for all this Plan A stuff. I have shared it again many times but will share it with you now.

You approach a flooded river that you need to cross. There is no bridge, the water is too fast and deep to wade or swim and no other method of getting to the other side is visible.

You stand there feeling hopeless and pick up a rock and throw it into the flood. It vanishes without a trace. It's as if the river destroyed the roack utterly and completely. No trace of it remains from where you stand and it is gone forever and a wasted effort. You seem to be no closer to the other side than you were before.

Now if you give up and walk away, you won't waste any more effort and you will be able to rest then move on in another direction. Someday perhaps you will return to this spot and find that someone else has built a bridge or that the water level is down enough that you can wade or swim to the other side. Or maybe you will by then have access to a boat and be able to get across without throwing rocks into the raging torrent.

Now if you examine the situation logically, that is with the left side of your brain where logic rules the day and data is processed by the number, you will understand that the rock wasn't destroyed by the river at all. It is in fact lying on the riverbed, where once there was only sediment. The rock is there, it just isn't visible to you.

The right side of your brain, the part that is ruled by and runs on emotions and feelings tells you that it is hopeless, but if you can listen to the left side long enough, you find that there still is a chance that you might find a way across.

You throw a second rock into the flood and it too disappears from view. You throw another and it's gone before the sound of the splash reaches your ear. Again and again you throw a rock into the stream and time and time again see nothing for all your efforts.

Your emotions tell you that nothing is happening that the rocks are not doing anything and that nothing good will ever come from this effort.

Yet the left side of your brain is able to process the numbers and can actually determine that the pile of rock must by now be getting quite large.

Rock after rock follows the ones thrown before and all seem to be swallowed without a trace. You throw 499 rocks of various sizes into the stream and have nothing visible to show for all your wasted effort.

Yet when you throw that 500th stone, the one more time and one last try and once more for luck and good measure stones that had no effect show themselves at last, for this special rock numbered 500 for the first time makes an appearance with barely the tiniest of tips showing above the waves. When you see it your heart skips a beat. Could it be true? Could all those rocks have really paid off after all? The visible sign of progress causes you to regain your hope and you keep throwing rocks into the river until you have built up a way to reach the other side.

Now the right side of your brain recognizes the hope and shouts encouragement for you to go on with the building process, but until that one little tip of a rock appeared, it was your logic that had to sustain you, knowing that the rocks were piling up even when you couldn't detect them and they seemed to be having no effect.

Your emotions tell you that it is hopeless. If your logic tells you that your plan is solid, then listen to your logic and not your emotions. It is your emotions that expect things to happen a certain way and when they don't happen like that you feel defeated though progress, still unseen and undetected has been made.

In Plan A we expect our spouse to see our hard work and suddenly and without warning have a breakthrough, "I could have had a V8" type of moment and wake up from the nightmare they have created, beg us to forgive them and ask to come home so they can find a way to make it up to us.

It NEVER happens like that. In fact it seldom happens that they have a sudden change of heart. What usually takes place is they see the hard work being done by the BS and try to explain it away, since if the BS is fixing those things they claim were the reasons for the affair, the affair no longer serves a purpose.

In fact you can tell when you are actually making progress and doing things right because the WS will begin to say things like "It's too late" or "Too much has already happened" or "It isn't enough any more" or "Too much has changed." This is how you can tell for sure that they see what you are doing. The more they try to get you to stop meeting their ENs, the more you can be assured that you are doing it right when you meet them. It is causing conflict within the fantasy. Reality has intruded and once the light of what's real is in the room, the darkness can only flee. It might hide in the shadows for a while, but it has no power once the light appears.

If you know that your Plan A is valid and you know that you are meeting his top ENs as much as possible and when ever given the chance, then rest in the knowledge that it is working but just hasn't yet reached critical mass. Once it does, visible signs will appear. Until then you have to keep in check that little voice that wants this all to go away and for you to wake up tomorrow to find that it was all just a bad dream. It is bad, but I'm afraid it isn't a dream.

Plan A requires the mentality of that little engine that could...

"I think I can. I think I can. I think I can..."

It will be expecting to see the results after each encounter that will take away your resolve to keep going. Those are the expectations you need to keep in check.

Mark

Gee Mark, You always know just what to say. I am not in a good place today to meet EN. Maybe I will feel better tomorrow. Maybe a day of no contact with WH will be good. Maybe for both of us?

I guess I need a day to re-group. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

WH 'stopped by' yesterday afternoon, and waited to see kids. they were getting ready to go out. I made quick dinner for everyone 'on the run'. Kids were excited about their plans for the evening and in very good moods. Both have great senses of humor. It made for what would have been a great family evening at home, and he got to witness it. Just another EN filled.

Had a horrible conversation with my mom last night. I was not in a good place to deal with it, recieved a voicemial from her and probably should not have returned call from her, but I did. She ended up telling me that I didn't love her, as well as other nasty things. She is so needy right now, and right now I do not have the stength to deal with her as well as my own situation. I feel sometimes that it is wrong of me to feel this way. I just don't know how to handle the situation with her. I have tried to explain where I am coming from.

She also accused me of changing in a bad way. I have changed, I have learned to lean on God. It has given me peace and strength at the times I need it most in this horrible point in my life. I am sure she senses my hurt and some loss of joy from my life, but I have also made other changes as well, like trying not to gossip, not complaining to her about WH all the time (which i did prior to A). All things that I know now were wrong. She takes this as me not confiding in her, and my not loving her. I have tried to tell her that I no longer do these things because they were wrong to do from the beginning.

I view the changes in myself as positive, have told her that I would not be able to get through what I am going through without making these changes.

I believe she feels that if I were to just shut the door on my marriage, I would get back to my old self. She might be right, but I don't see that as a good thing, and she does.

She has never liked my H, and I realized post D-day that is partially my doing because I used her as a sounding board ALOT and that was wrong. When my mom found out that my WH was moving out again, she did the dance of joy. Every phone call I got from her was to try to 'tattle' on something my WH had done in the past, whether it was in refernce to the affair or not. I finally had to tell her that her tattling was not helping me at all.

All she does is try to fuel the fire to get me to leave him. This is why I have limited contact with her.

I made many mistakes last night in not dealing with my pain very well, including hurting my daughter. I now have alot of repairing to do.... I need to be more patient, especially when I am in a place of pain.