I'm not sure if this post belongs here, or in the "divorcing/divorced" group. My apologies if I'm in the wrong one.

Long story short (ok maybe not so short). July 7, 2009 - wife told me she's not in love with me anymore, hasn't been happy during the 13 years of marriage we've had, etc etc etc. Wants out. Shortly thereafter I found out about her EA. Various confrontations resulted and about 2-3 weeks ago, the EA ended; both my WW and the OP decided to call it quits. I believe the EA is indeed ended.

During this time, my wife told me she would be filing for divorce as soon as she had enough $ saved for a retainer for an attorney. I had no reason to doubt her. But I began working on my life, making positive changes for myself (which, truth be told, started happening before D-Day).

I'm living at home and have no plans to move out. Trying to fill the emotional needs of my wife that I have not been fulfilling for quite some time. That is, the needs that she will allow me to fulfill. Helping around the house; taking care of our 3 young children, doing family things, encouraging her in her new job, telling her when she looks beautiful, being a friend to her.

A couple weeks ago, she did file for divorce. I retained my own attorney. Obviously we are in the very initial stages however I expect this process to cost $15-$20k (which we don't have) due to complicated business entities we own, and my attorney says to expect about a year before the divorce is final.

I know that my wife has noticed the changes in me these past 5 months. She has said so to me and I can see her positive reactions when I do something that I may not have done before. She occasionally asks me "who are you?" because of these changes. We both seem happier together although we are not romantic in any way shape or form. Strangely she does things that tell me she is thinking of me, such as calling to get my opinion before buying something for our kids. Or, calling me to tell me she is running late. Or, calling me during the day to tell me how her new job is going.

Getting to my question...I feel like I'm just plodding along and am not in control of this situation. I feel like I'm in the backseat and my wife is in the front seat, driving. What should I expect to happen next, if anything is to happen?

In all likelihood will she continue with the divorce until it's final? My obvious goal is for reconciliation - I love her dearly - so what do I do in the meantime? Just continue doing what I'm doing? Do I try to "make a move" so to speak to try to show her how devastating a divorce will be to us and our children? Do I "make a move" to try to be affectionate with her? I know people here have said to avoid saying "I love you" - does that mean NEVER say it? Or say it without going overboard? Does saying it show a weakness or vulnerability in me from her point of view that may turn her off?

I'm totally confused here. This situation is different than described on a lot of posts from other BS's. Because many times the WW or WH who is having an affair, does not want to end their marriage, they eventually end their affair and rebuild their marriage. In my case, my wife had an EA, wanted a divorce, and now when the EA is over, STILL wants to divorce me.

To add insult to injury, our 13th wedding anniversary is coming up. What do I do about that?!

Thanks for any insight!

Hi,

I am sorry that you are in this situation. It would probably be better to post in the surviving an affair forum. There is more traffic there and you will get more responses from various folks. If you notify the mods, they can move the thread for you.

2-3 weeks isn't very long ago. What happened to end the A? Was your wife dumped by the OM? Are they still in contact, i.e. see each other at work or at social events? I would be very suspicious that the A went underground. From my understanding reading on this site, women in As do not usually leave the marriage unless there is something else lined up.

From your description of her feedback, it seems as though you are avoiding lovebusters and are working pretty well on meeting her ENs. Good job about not moving out, taking care of the kids, helping out around the house, etc.

Reference the anniversary, maybe you could ask her. If you put it in the context that this will be the last anniversary we may ever acknowledge together, we should do something wildly special.... or perhaps give her a taste of the future and ignore the day. I guess if you are in plan A, you would be doing something she would really like. Not sure how to handle this..... maybe someone else will have some ideas here.

I am sorry I am not more help to you. Hopefully, some MB vets will pop in on this thread.

AM

Welcome to MB. I'm sorry to hear of these events in your marriage.

I suspect that your wife is still in her affair.

Please click "notify" and ask the mods to move this post to Surviving an Affair, as already suggested. That forum has many people who can help you with this situation.

Thanks for the replies. I did notify the admin to move the thread as suggested.

What happened about 3 weeks ago, which I believe ended the EA, was when I talked to the wife of the OM for the second time. She had no idea this was still going on and was devastated and very upset. I believe she laid it on the line for him and gave him a choice - stay and end the EA, or leave.

A day after I talked to his wife, the OM sent me 2 text messages asking me to leave his wife alone, that I was making her feel bad and she doesn't deserve it. Yeah ok, like *I* was the one making her feel bad - I didn't cheat on her for crying out loud. Anyway, my point is, the OM seemed to be sticking up for his wife. I believe that is a good sign.

My wife wrote in her journal that she ended all contact and communication wit OM. She recently started a new job that is taking a significant amount of her time, so just from a time standpoint I don't see how they can be doing much of anything except via cell phone. I no longer have access to cell records so I have no way to know for sure if they are communicating that way.

However I have seen no suspicious activity from her, or lies coming from her like I had seen the last 4 months when the EA was going on. That is why I believe it is over. But, I remain suspicious and will watch closely...The OM and my wife do not work together and do not see each other in a social environment so I don't have to worry about that.

It will be interesting to see what other people say about what to do on our anniversary! One person in our family suggested writing my wife a letter and let her know my heart and specifically what our future might look like if we remained together and worked at it. She said regardless of whether my wife says it or not, that my wife DOES care about what I say and DOES care about how I feel about her. And such a letter would have an impact...But, from a MB standpoint I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not.

What you are doing is called plan A, keep meeting her needs.

How did you find out?

How did WW meet the OM?

How do you know it's over, and not hidden?

Bad sign when a WW stops having sex. Could be she has had sex with the OM. And now feels that to have it with you would be cheating on the OM.

Don't give up if you don't want a divorce. Tell your lawyer to stall.

Then you need to snoop if affair is dead.

Install a keylogger on your home computer. Check cell phone records.

jrnyman,

I think you need to become a lot more sceptical about this affair. There are some "I believe" statements in your post. My own experience, and what I have gathered from reading hundreds of posts here, is that you should not EVER take the word of someone who has had an affair. Only after you have gone through a significant period of verifying events can you take the word of a transparent, repentant FORMER waywards spouse.

First, what makes you think this was only an EA? Was it a one-way investment by your wife? If the OM was active in this relationship then it is unlikely that he limited his involvement to the emotional. He would have wanted sex, and would have given his attention, flattery and willingness to listen to your wife in the hope of sex. It is highly unlikely that he kept listening to her and flattering her if she made it clear that sex was off the table (so to speak!) This was in all probability a PA, since it lasted some months.

How did you come to speak to OMW twice? The fact that you thought it ended once before after exposure should tell you something about its strength.

I first found out about my H's affair in 2003 after the first six weeks. For over a week, we fought and blamed each other for the condition of our marriage (which was very bad). After taking deep breaths we said that we wanted to stay together and have a good marriage again. I did not try to find out OW's identity or anything else. We started what looked like a spectacular recovery. 2 years later, in early 2005, I discovered that he had never ended the affair - had never even told OW that I had found out - and had smoothly continued it.

I then thought I knew what I was up against, and after agreeing to try again, I tried to spy on his mobile phone. However, he simply left it at the office (it was a company phone) and so I had very few opportunities to see messages on it. When, in late 2005 I found out that the affair was continuing I told him to leave. Once again I changed my mind when he promised me the earth.

I found more text messages in summer 2006. This time I told H that I would leave, with the children, and not come back until he was out of the house. He said he would tell his boss that he would no longer travel in his job the next day. He did that, and so the physical side of the affair ended. (The affair took place abroad, where OW lives and H worked.) I stayed because he took this action.

You must immediately give up your faith in signs. That is equivalent to using horoscopes to cure cancer rather than medical science. The medical science cure for an affair is to snoop, discover and verify.

OM was not protecting his wife; he was protecting himself. He does not want his wife to leave and he does not want you to tell her things that will make her do so.

Immediately my H stopped travelling, OW rang me to tell me that she would leave my H alone. She begged me not to tell her H or kids, and I said that I would never do that. She then continued to phone, text and email my H at work, begging him to leave me and the children. At first, H told me about this contact and showed me the emails. Then he suddenly began saying that there was no further contact. I did not believe him but could prove nothing. I found the forums here and learned about the importance of telling the other BS.

In 2007, when H admitted to one teeny tiny text message from her saying "Happy New Year", I emailed her H and exposed. I found out then that HE had found evidence of what his wife had passed off as drinks and lunches in 2003. He had read the riot act to her and she said that she would never see my H again. She passed the whole thing off as not even a proper EA - when they had in fact been having sex for months, at least once in her marital bed. My H had dumped her then (in 2003), but when her H's rage had calmed down and he believed her tears and remorse, she and my H got back together again until my rediscovery in 2005. There were more dumpings and reconciliations each time they thought that I accepted my H's lies, until proper exposure in 2007. There was discovery after discovery with this affair, and many strong talks, ultimatums and threats from the BSs, and the affair continued through all of them (or at least, stopped for a few days and restarted).

The only reason that I know that there is no PA now is because her H watches from his end and I from mine. Also, both affair partners used to travel in their jobs, and we BSs have made sure that this has stopped.

This point makes no sense. If you believe that this was an EA, then you must see that talking on the phone is as destructive to the marriage as physical activity.

As for having a new job and being too busy: OW moved out of her home in 2005, from Monday to Friday, to take a work promotion in a nearby country. She had to pass various exams to get that job. She also kept on a part-time job that required some work from home and travel abroad about every 3 months for a week. She was very busy in her work.

However, she found time to spent many nights in my H's hotel bed quite near her marital home, when her H thought that she was alone in her flat over 200 miles away. She had no landline laid on to the flat and he could only reach her by mobile, which did not identify where she was. She also told her H that there was no landline laid on at her job, because it was in a new building. He believed that.

She would take a train after work and travel back to her country for a night, then get the first train out, at about 6, that gave her time to be back at her desk without missing a day.

Her H made her apply for a transfer back home if she wanted to stay with him.

If your wife has a private phone, you should get access to the online account. That would show you her calls in and out.

If you are not suspicious you will not see anything. I was DEEPLY suspicious after my false recoveries, and yet I could not tell what my H was up to by scrutinising his face, expressions, body language or verbal language. He lied smoothly, never blushed, increased his sexual activity with me, was affectionate, caring to the kids and, because the affair took place at work and abroad, never sneaked around at home.

I think you need to snoop, and then if (when) you find out that the affair is on, follow Dr Harley's plans.

I can only recommend faking your anniversary. I would take your wife out for a celebration, if she agrees to go. I don't think that there is any harm in writing the letter that your relative suggested, but you should be sceptical about her reception of it. If she is in her affair it will have no impact at all now, but will do once the affair ends.

Sugarcane-

Great post! I want to clarify something I guess I did not do too good of a job of in my original post(s). And that is, that I am HIGHLY suspicious of everything she does. If she is grocery shopping, I keep track of the time she is gone and compare that to the size of the load of groceries she buys. I check the receipt to see if the time of checkout matches the time she arrives home. And that's just one example.

I no longer have access to her cell records. She had an online account which I gained access to, to see all her calls in and out. When she found out I had access to the account, and was making copies of records for my protection, she shut off online access.

She recently bought a new PDA phone and has a password on the phone. I cannot gain access to it. She does not use text messaging, that I am assured of because I did see her paper statement and it shows zero text messages (but the paper statement is only a summary and shows no call detail).

I do not know for a fact that it was an EA and not a PA. How would I ever know that?

As I see it there are only a couple of ways I can see if this A is still going on. One is to install GPS in her vehicle. Second is to install a voice recorder in her car. I already have key logging software on her computer but she is smart enough to not use her computer for much of anything.

My gut tells me the A is over (and no I am not in denial because I definitely do not trust her). But like the old saying goes, "Trust, but Verify", I think I will do some snooping.

Do you think I should ask her to re-enable her Internet access to her cell phone, if she truly has nothing to hide what would be the problem? Or would that be a lovebuster? And what motive would she have to do it anyway, she has already filed for divorce so in her mind, she's done.

Thanks---

SugarCane, I have a question that just popped into my head. Let's say you are right and the A is still going on. I have already fully exposed to everyone. Her family is putting tremendous pressure on her, not by talking to her but by NOT talking to her. She knows every person in her family does not support one thing she has done or is doing through all this.

The main point of your post was that I should be careful about believing the A is over. But whether it is or is not, what do I do? What is my next step?

She has already filed for divorce, so it seems Plan B will be useless because she WANTS me to move out and separate. There is no leverage there. What to do?

Confused...

jrnyman, like SC, I believe the affair is still ongoing and this is what has initiated the divorce. They have simply decided to go further underground until they get divorced so that they will have more favorable terms.

If you have the evidence that your W is continuing the affair, you can use this information to expose that to everyone. Right now your wife is telling everyone her affair is ended and she wants out. If you tell everyone the TRUTH, that her affair is ongoing and that is why she wants the divorce, it will ruin her plans.

With evidence, you can contact the OMW, the OM's family, and explain to your children that she wants to wreck their family for an affair with OM.

Have your kids been told about the affair?

One of the best spy tools with someone who has a PDA is flexipsy, but I am not sure how you can get the spyware on the phone without her password. It tells you everything that is done on the phone plus operates as a GPS.

But I assure you she has gone further underground. You might want to even consider hiring a PI. But the solution will be to find out and expose the affair again.

The reason she has filed for divorce is because she wants to conintue the affair and probably to punish you for exposing her affair to the OMW. She has just gone further underground with her plans. A more comprehensive exposure will ruin the future of the affair.

She is hoping that you will COOPERATE with her divorce so she can move you out and replace you with OM. I would let her know that you will not cooperate with a divorce and will not be moving out without a court order. I would countersue on the grounds of adultery, keeping the house and full custody of the kids. If you live in a fault state, that is. If you live in a fault state, you can even call the OM to the stand to testify about his affair with your wife.

Your WW is counting on you to "cooperate" with her destruction so she won't feel as guilty. She has probably talked to you about being "friends" in the future and being good "co-parents." She is saying this in the hopes that you won't make her feel guilty - as she should feel - for destroying your childrens family. I would let her know this: a) you won't cooperate with her scheme to destroy your marriage and your childrens family and b) you won't be her "friend."

Let her know you would never have a "friend" who lies to you and cheats on you. You are not her "friend," but her husband.

I think it will be a huge wake up call if you set your children down and explain to them what their mother is doing to their family. She is wrecking their family for her affair. She should answer for that to your kids.

Hi MelodyLane thank you for the reply!

I'm going to get a GPS unit to put in her vehicle and maybe a voice recording device to hide in the vehicle as well. That will tell me whether she is being truthful and whether my gut feel is correct or not.

We shall see.

Our kids have not been told, they are very young, 2, 4 and 8. The 8 year old knows something is up. I do not plan on telling him mom is cheating, but I do plan on sitting him down to tell him mom and dad are having problems, and dad is doing everything he can to save our family from breaking up. I plan on having my wife there while I tell him this but make it clear to her this is a dad-son meeting. I want her there so she can see the look on my son's face.

Please understand I am not using my son in anyway to try to get revenge on my wife, I am only telling him the truth. He deserves to know what is going on. And I know my wife will be affected by his reaction.

Melody,

I can assure you I am not cooperating with the divorce. I have told her repeatedly I will not discuss any divorce with her. If she files, I will respond accordingly as law dictates. But I will NEVER cooperate.

You're right though, she wants to be "friends" and wants to be "good parents" for our kids. I told her a good parent does not break up their family like this.

We live in a no-fault state, and I've been advised that adultery does play a part in spousal support and to a lesser extent, in division of assets (but only by about 10%).

Regarding the flexispy software, I had heard of that, and if I ever get access to her phone after she types in the password (or after I see her type it) I will most definitely install it. That would make my day

jrnyman, that sounds like a good plan!

I would STRONGLY suggest that you don't lie to your 8 year old. 8 years old is old enough to understand the concept of adultery. He needs to know that your wife has been cheating and with whom. Her bad behavior should not be whitewashed in order to cover up for her. I suspect she plans on slipping the OM in as a replacement once she gets you out, so this will put the kabash on that plan if your son is forewarned that this scum OM is his enemy.

Dr Harley always recommends telling kids the truth about adultery. If you tell you son "mom and dad are having problems" and don't tell him WHY, he will just be confused and will grow up thinking that adults get divorced over trivial issues. And adultery is not a trivial issue. If you don't tell him the truth, your wayward wife will spin the truth to him and it will likely have you starring as the bad guy and her the victim.

He has a right and need to know the truth about what is happening in his own family. Additionally, he will need moral guidance about the issue of adultery. Your wife likely has a plan to replace you with the OM and if the boy doesn't know, he will be vulnerable to the OM.

I would tell him without your wife there, because she will try to lie to him and spin the story. Better to give him the truth and then allow him to ask her direct questions. She can answer for her bad behavior.

Dr. Willard Harley:

check out this one:

here

If you want this MP3, email me and I have the 1 hr MP3 of this show.

Talk is cheap with a WS. I suspect she just made this threat to punish you for calling the OMW and to scare you off. She is likely still in contact with the OM or is pursuing him but feels that threatening divorce will scare you off. Most WS's threaten divorce when they are exposed.


It is a GREAT little tool!

Jrnyman

All the advice about varifying the affair is right on. I can't tell you how many times my wife said the A was over only to find out later it wasn't. My W's A was VERY deep so it was very difficult for her to stop. Thats why we separated. One word of advice though. I know with all this A talk on this board your probably a bit paranoid. Be careful that doesn't come out in your conversations with your wife until it's verified, if at all. I used WEBWATCHER on her computer and it has helped tremendously. It's also very painful. Be prepared and don't react right away if you do find something.

jm,

I should just explain that my expertise (such as it is) lies in telling new posters how not to be the idiot chump that I was. I can direct you on Dr Harley's methods as they relate to NC (including not working together or travelling in jobs), false recovery, exposing to the other BS, cake-eating WSs, deluded and persistent OPs, lying and gaslighting. When it comes to anything else you are much better off with other people. I can see that MelodyLane's advice to expose the continued affair, and to tell your children, is absolutely sound. Others will help you more as the week rolls on; Sundays are really poor days for responses!

You should try and answer the questions you have been asked so far. It is really frustrating to try and give advice when we do not know what we are dealing with.

Tell us about the affair, as TheRoad asked you. How did you discover it? What were you told that made you think it was an EA? What makes you think it lasted 4 months? How did you find out OM's identity? Was he an old boyfriend? Is everything that you know based on your wife's descriptions, or have you found any evidence of the circumstances?

(For example, I found OW's first and surnames in a text message. I Googled her and, although she lives in another country, I immediately found her connection to my H's job, her home address and her home phone number. I later found her H's web page with family photos and his wife's maiden name. From her maiden name I found out the part-time job she had, and from the documents that the company put on the internet I found out that she and my H had travelled to several different countries to spend nights together. For example, my H had been to Slovakia on my daughter's 15th birthday one year, and OW's company documents showed a conference in Slovakia on that day. If I had left my husband to tell me anything he would never have revealed OW's name, much less that he had left me and our family to spend nights with her abroad, citing work as the reason for travel. He was not working; he was using annual leave that belonged to his children, and paying plane fares and restaurant bills that came out of family money, so that he could have sex, escape and excitement. Grrr.)

How did WW and OM meet - do they work together? Do you live near them? These situations will need to change if your wife ever agrees to go back to your marriage.

How did you come to talk to OMW TWICE? I take it that after the first time you thought that the affair would end. How did you rediscover it? When you spoke, did OMW know any more than you did? (I was shocked to speak to OWH and find that he had discovered the affair "drinks" 3.5 years earlier. As a result of my contacting him he gained access to his wife's email account and was able to see letters from my H setting up the affair - so I know exactly when it was consummated - and letters dumping her when he found out in 2003.)

Did you listen to what I underlined in my post above - that OM is not protecting his wife when he asks you to leave her alone? Think about it. Why would he look out for her health now?

In my own case, and the many cases of BS contact that I have read about here, BSs are almost always highly grateful to be contacted with information. Usually their world does indeed fall apart, but they let the other BS know that they wish to know of any further contact, and they offer to reciprocate.

It is that rich source of information that OM is worried about. He has spun the affair to his wife as nothing - a crush on the part of your wife, or a one-off lapse, or something else that shows it to be much less than it was (as your wife has spun it to you).

Does he live in a fault state? If he is the reason why your wife is divorcing, he does not want his adultery to come up in court, because he probably has a lot to lose. If he has no plans to leave his wife when your wife leaves you, then he does not want your talking to lead to a Slovakia moment (when you both put pieces together) and for his wife to divorce him.

Please try and answer our questions, and then plan how you can get back on the phone to OMW when OM is not at home, and have a real talk with her. Does she know that your wife plans to divorce you? Has she any feeling that her H plans the same thing?

Wow Melody. I looked and looked for advice on whether to tell my 8 year old about his mom's adultery and couldn't find much here. Most therapists say don't do it. In fact, here is a response from one that I talked to a few weeks ago:

"In any case, I do not recommend telling kids about an affair. I think the risk to their relationship with mom is too great. In many cases, it starts a cycle of �attacking� one another verbally, and leaves the kids wondering what to think."

Based on your reasoning, should I also tell my 8 year old about the fact that mom filed for divorce? And explain what that means? Personally I think not, because I imagine it would cause a lot of anxiety in him, wondering what day dad will move out of the house forever.

Mel and others,

If WW continues on the divorce path after jm finds evidence of a PA, would it be in his interests to countersue for adultery, even though he does not want to divorce? Even in a no-fault state, would it be worth getting the real reason for the divorce on record?

Reducing his financial losses must be worthwhile also. What do you think?