Not further responding to SugarCane's TJ; as you were.

From the quote in SC's post, I have to agree with her. Barnboy, that this was inappropriate comment from a male poster to a female on a public board. BH was clearly talking about the painful emotions she experiences over intimacy, not her level of sexual satisfaction. Your post did come over as perverted.

It's clear what's important to YOU in your own relationship in terms of SF. However, I would respectfully point out that males and females have a very different attitude to sex. Women DO enjoy having sex, but they usually need to feel relaxed, safe and trusting of their partner before the enjoyment kicks in. I doubt very much that candles and chocolate would do it for BH, yes?

Maybe some people are on here to "hook up"? DUDE

HEllO Whats going on?? i get off forum for a little while to have dinner and this happens!!
I cant see what question was asked of me and to be honest i dont want to know at this stage as seems to have offended people so i dont want to put myself through that.

I opened intimacy issue because its an issue for me EMOTIONALLY. not phisically and WS has never had any complaints re frequency enjoyment etc so im not interested in hearing about how i should learn to satisfy WS etc cause thats a load of unecessary claptrap!! THAT HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE FOR US.

I want to feel safe that i can discuss what is bothering me etc without having to censor myself. Is that really too much to ask? Are there subjects i just have to avoid?? cause if there are somebody needs to tell me about that. I speack my mind and dont censor myself well.

Sorry its BH28 here not her WS! this logging in and logging out thing getting too much. Forgot to log out WS page! i got to stop doing that lol

BH, I think you're struggling because you don't have a plan. You don't know whether you're in Plan A or Recovery or what (in MB terms). I think you'll feel a lot better when you've got your plan in place and are working it.

Firstly, you're not in Recovery, because yllan is still working with the OW. Recovery can't even begin till you get clear water between you and the OW. So I think you need to form a timeline in your mind, and get your boundaries set out. For example, say yllan is still in the same job by end December. Or February, or whatever. Whether he's tried or not, let's say he's still in the same job with OW. What will you do at that point? (Hint: the answer is not 'Drift on the same way'!) This is where you have to be tough and self-disciplined. It would be useful to have spoken to a lawyer so you know what your options are. But if you decided that you can't go on while he's still working with OW (which is perfectly reasonable), then you need to have that time limit in place in your mind, and be prepared to take action as you need to.

If he moves out to stay with his parents or whoever, you need to be prepared for how you will deal with that. You can only let him back to attempt recovery if he meets your conditions (new job, NC with OW).

If you get to that stage, you'll need a new plan, but there's plenty of time to sort that out.

Right now, your marriage is leaking fuel at a dangerous rate, while his contact with the OW is constantly re-wounding you. He needs to leave that job. I don't think he'll try very hard unless he thinks you mean business about it. Mean business.

TA

Bh, how long would you say he has held that status? I think that, at most, it has been two days since he expressed willingness to change his job. I would not give him too much credit yet.

If you read Dr Harley's Q & A letters, you will see that he adapts his advice depending on whether the WS is a wife or a husband.

In this Letter: Unfaithful Husband he uses the terms "first step" and "second step" rather than "Plan A" and "Plan B":

As you know from having read my book, I advise your husband to never see his lover again. He must move to another job and possibly to another state before he can reconcile with you. Otherwise, he will continue to love her and be unable to resist seeing her from time to time. Even if your marriage improves, he may never be able to overcome his feeling of love for this other woman unless he stops seeing her.

But, from your description, he is unlikely to accept my advice -- at least at this time. All of his talk about the way he "feels" proves that he is addicted to his lover. So I recommend a three step plan to you.

The first step is to be the very best wife you can possibly be. Do everything you can to meet his needs, and don't do anything to upset him. Set a period of time that you think you can do this without getting too upset, say, six months. Once in a while, tell him that you think both of you need a fresh start somewhere else.

If he does not respond to your kindness and respectful suggestions within that period of time you're ready for the second step: pack up yourself and your children and move near your family and friends for their support. It should be far away from his lover -- another city or even another state. Have absolutely nothing to do with him. Don't talk to him, don't see him.

However, in what appears to be a later column that gives a more precise definition of the plans, he says

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended.

What are Plan A and Plan B?

"Express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended". Dr Harley does not say that you should meet those needs now. On the face of it, that means that you should not participate in SF unless it is one of YOUR needs on a particular day. Of course, that could mean no SF for weeks, which will have an effect on your H's experience of Plan A.

You do not know if your H is communicating with OW. He says that he is not, and that he has seen her 3 times at work this year, always in front of other people. However, their continued working together represents a continuation of the affair for you. Your H's total inaction in searching for a new job is also a gross neglect of your most important emotional need, and it seems perverse for you to be expected to meet his need for SF when he has been completely unwilling to meet yours for safety.

My wife and I had the problem of posting under each others name as well. You can change the screen view by going to;
"My Stuff"
*
"Edit Preferences"
*
"Your Preferred Stylesheet"
*
change it to -Dark-

It is a reverse view that one of you can use and you will know just by looking at the screen who is logged in...... we find there is less chance of accidental postings.

Just a suggestion that might help. Good Luck!

Thanks for tip Tst somtimes i get so eager to answer a post i forget what PC im on lol. I will reply to intimacy issue tomorrow if thats ok as too tiered to explain much further now.

GREAT UPDATE!

Couldnt reveal plan on here before as WH might see it but when i posted regarding my friend who's WS is now homless etc it got me thinking and devised sneaky plan.
Here is what happened, for easyness im going to refer to my friend as JJ. I called JJ as she works for a great company and loves her job, its well paid and very family friendly etc, basically ideal job for WH. Told her dilemma and she told me her company are recruiting right now. She came over this evening as if she was just passing by and as we were all chatting she mentioned job, WH asked about job role pay etc and completely lit up (Basically job is IDEAL, working from home most the time, more pay, company car and suitable hours, job role involves monitoring criminals with Tags). JJ told WH to have his resume ready in the morning and email it to her, she will pass it onto relevant department and they will definitley be in contact as like to employ reccomended people by staff.
WH has not stopped talking about new job and he is exited about it so all signs looking good, will see if he follows through with resume in the morning as application window is very very short.
How good is that!! Me not so stupid today!

You deserve a gold star, Bh. You are a brilliant wife and your H should tell you so hourly.

Please keep us updated - and remember to follow through with the coaching centre appointment.

Thanks SC thinking of buying one of those reward charts you get chidren to monitor my behaviour and put gold star on it LOL

OK so plan wise i think im in tail end of plan A. I have done most of the hard work of plan A by meeting spouse ENs for the past year. I have exposed, broken fog regarding OW (although this one was way too easy once her history was discovered lol), WS has done missing OW, pining, fog etc letter of NC to OW done months ago sent successfully. now appears to immensly dislike OW so i feel that side is accomplished well.
We are no way near recovery, I think recovery only starts when NC established and WS shows active committment to marriage not just verbal committment.

Plan to move forward as follows:

1)continue to make progress regaring NC and new job (my timeline on this is new year no job change by New Year = immediate Plan B and NC with me etc.

2) Read SAA book together once it arrives.

3)Learn about LB's and implement avoiding them immediately (i have a big issue with LB comments directed at WS daily)

4)Work out some time and space to work on WB principals together, and make effort to achieve 15 hours week contact

5)Book phone councelling with steve.

thats as far as i got with plans any thoughts/ suggestions?


PS need to clarify something else


No way and i hope WS has not given the above impression cause he is in for a telling off if he has, WS sees OW DAILY at work (a part from when she or he are on holiday or opposite weekends rota), he has only (and i use the term only very loosely here) SPOKEN to her directly 3 times in past year even if it was presence of customer managment etc. She is tills suprevisor he is part of stock managment, they both work at a DIY store. We arent talking about a super big store here, so they do see eachother every day at work and have close phisical proximity.

Fantastic news, keeping everything crossed for you both over in the west.

Stunning work!

Yey thats two gold stars for my chart lol! Resume accomplished this morning and sent - took WS 6 hours to do it and took me sitting him down like a baby and proofreading and breacking it down for him section by section to achieve this lol. It baffles me to think he managed to run and conduct full blown deceptive (hiding clothes in car, erasing phone cell history etc) affair yet cant sit down and do simple resume unaided! Frustrated but trying to avoid LB's!

PS wanted to thank People praying for us in forum, I was a Christian however lost my faith a long time ago (following child born with heart defect and witnessing many innocent children loose their lives to medical conditions while in hospital with son). I do hope one day i will have the streangth go get back to God and im grateful for your prayers at a time when i cant pray for myself.

PS in case you havent figured it out this Is BH not WS, having another "stupid" moment today and not checking username before i post. This really got to stop. once mistake, 2wice still mistake but 3 times im starting to look really dumb!

Good luck in your recovery; sounds like the two of you are making steps in the right direction now after a year of difficulty!

Thanks Barnboy but im afraid what everyone says on here is totally true there is no way we can start heading in right direction until WH leaves job.
I see the way he is behaving regarding job situation right now as a test of how much he cares. Lets face it the man has a lot of issues (im being sarcastic here)

He cant tell me he loves me cause he doesent have the experience or the words to express how he feels
He cant show me he loves me cause he doesent know how
He cant do alot of things but then i never thought i could tolerate a cheater for this long, i never thought i could stand there and listen to the details, excuses etc.

Im not asking him to have psychic powers and just figure out what my needs are and how he can make me happy etc. Im telling him daily what he NEEDS to do and yet here i am waiting for him to do even the smallest of my requests.

want an example of the daily moronic comments i have to endure, heres one that will really make you laugh.
As mentioned earlyer my friend JJ came over yesterday regarding job etc, she stayed quite a while and we all got on well chatting then conversation turned to MB and A, JJ ask WS

JJ "so would you fight for W if she walked away"
WS "i dont think i would have the willpower to fight for her"

Me= Dumstruck, humiliated incredibly hurt and embarassed add extra humilation bonus as this conversation taking place in front of my friend.

Cheers hun! thanks for making me feel worthless!! thumbs up to you (not!).

Thinking of starting thread called WH inaproptiate comment of the day lol ( i really got to laugh at this point as im done crying)

BH, after reading your WH's letter to the OW skank on his thread, I TOTALLY see why you're not in recovery. They are in a love-hate relationship, and that's a continued A. Even if he doesn't want to admit it, he's capable of feeling love. Only someone who was in love, then scorned would write the way he did. Sorry! Hope he starts to own it and then leaves that toxic situation.

Hey Im,
i really make an effort not to read WH thread as to be honest he hurts me in real life everyday with stupid actions/comments i dont need to read about it as well. I do know he posted NC letter as he told me and i suspect this was as a result of frustration on his part that NO ONE beleives he has no feelings for OW and working together is acceptable. Im sure he will soon be told otherwise by wise MB members. I do feel sorry for the guy sometimes, not easy living in la la land.
I was happy with NC letter as it was sweet revenge for me and gave me great satisfaction OW was humiliated however this was shrort lives as she did not react to letter in any way. She acted like she never got it and the joke was on him. I mean she never cared about him one bit he was a challenge for her and she knows what she is so didnt particularly care about his opinion.
The NC letter gave me security that no matter how much of a horrid person she was she wouldnt try to resume affair after getting letter like that and there was no way he had the guts to approach her after a letter like that, It has intimate details that only the two of them would have know about.

I have never for one second beleived that we have been in recovery however my feelings were sedated for 6 months of that year due to AD's and i guess that helped him get away with alot. Now im off the AD's its all biting him in the backside as im can think clearly again and i am acting on issues rather than sitting on my bottom expecting it all to go away etc

Right everyone

here is whats happening

THIS IS IT I cant stress this enough, I HAVE HAD ENOUGH.

Massive fight tonight, cried and still crying, realising im chasing a dream here by expecting WS to care about me or any of my EM's. I can honestly say NONE of my EM's have been met in a year and im starting to see im naive stupid and deluded to think this is going to change. I nearly lost my life and my children nearly lost their mother because of this situation and i just cant do this anymore.
One comment too far, read GloveOil present to his wife poem with WS, his comments just broke me. Excuses why he isnt a great writer etc when all i needed to hear that he wants to feel taht way about me etc.

The penny has dropped im just an unlovable and thats it no matter what plan i follow im never going to be good enough for WS im done trying chasing this dream.

I told WS that i would gladly swap the 10 years together we shared for the 2 months he shared with OW because in those two months he showed her more love and devotion that he has shown me in our whole marriage.

WS paniking, sent request for coaching centre appointmet, i on the other hand give up! i give up on trying to make him a better human being steve isnt a miracle worker.

Picture this right now im in bed crying like a baby as im typing this, WS sitting opposite me scratching his head not saying a word of comfort, what have i ever done to him to make him hate me so?
I got to go as getting too hard to type and sob at the same time. sorry for bothering you folks and thanks for your help so far.

Eternally grateful

Bh,

I'm so sorry you were feeling that way in the early hours of this morning. It's quite likely that the worst of your anger has subsided now. I know I used to feel as you did and then change my mind several times a day.

Please do not either give up on the marriage or go away from this board yet.

It is not a bad idea for you to let your H do the work now, and for you only to return emotionally to the marriage when you see effort and change in him. You have done every scrap of the work so far, up to and including thinking of your friend JJ as a source of work, talking to her about it and pushing your H uphill to write his CV. I do think that enough is more than enough and H needs to be active now in saving his marriage.

I hope you will give Steve Harley a chance, now that a coaching session seems likely to materialise. Don't take the attitude that he is not a miracle worker. You have nothing to lose and potentially much to gain from listening to him, and especially, from seeing what your H does after listening to him.

You are quite right that you cannot make H a better human being, and you should not try. It is up to him now to move your marriage to the beginning of recovery. Please wait and see whether he does anything concrete towards that and take care of yourself and the kids for now. Please post and tell us how you are today.

Thanks SC,

Its now mornign, i fell asleep crying no progress from WS after scratching his head and saying nothing, he just walked away downstairs and lef me to rot as usual.
Little communication this morning and im still feeling exactly the same as i did last night, no change.

For those of you concerned about my preious self harm history please let me assure you that i havent had any thoughts that will lead to me selfharming, I am safe and the children are well.

I have asked WS to leave, he hasnt acted on my request, What do i do now, pack his stuff for him or make him pack them?