Don't you think it's a little "after the fact" to expose now? It's been 5 months since I found out and I KNOW that WH will definitely say I can't let go if I go and expose. Besides what do you do? Not trying to sound funny...do you just start telling everyone you come in contact with? At this point no one thinks there is anything going on. Maybe at the time my parents suspected something but now...everything seems ok.

I'm almost positive he will lose his job...a lot of the texting went on while on duty. This would not be good for our finances. I agree that everyone should pay for what they have done but I feel that the OW will come out smelling like a rose and WH will lose his job and then we will lose our house. And then where will our marriage be? It angers me to think she...OW would come out on top and we would be struggling to make our payments.

OurHouse...That's the thing...the OW is 22 and loves to party. She has nothing to lose...doesn't care.

I have just been encouraged to expose property to OW's husband. I didn't know about MB when this happened and though I told H's family, our friends, our priest--I only told her husband through a hotmail account that I opened under an anonymous name, emailed some general details and then closed again.

So I wrote a 3 paragraph letter with all the details, including how they kept in touch over the years and including how she tried to talk him out of marrying me (when she was already married to him). Signed my real name and included my email address. Mailed it yesterday.

I see you're also in Va.

If it's NoVa, I can recommend a counselor to you who's interested in saving marriages.

Thanks GloveOil but I'm not in NoVA...south of Harrisonburg. We have a really great pastor, which my WH has already spoke with...I just haven't broke down and made an appointment yet...I'm afraid I'm not fixable...that I will never be able to move on.

That's because they are always "thinking of ending it" or "trying to end it", particularly once they cross what they perceive as a line (the first kiss, the first sex, etc.)... they recognize that they are acting in a way inconsistent with their belief in themselves, and hope they find a way out that doesn't hurt anybody.

So, sure. They are always in the process of ending it when they get caught. My WW told me a few weeks in "I knew that I needed to stop it somehow, but I didn't know how. I wish I'd found a way to stop it before you got involved."

Barnboy...I noticed that you have the A listed as EA. I too have listed my WH's A as EA because he has said over and over that it was NEVER physical. Are you ever really 100% sure? If so...how?

Thanks!

Keepnfaith88, I'm not tryin' to bring you down (and sorry to be so long-winded), but I re-read your story. So you say:

- He had secret correspondence with his OW for at least 3 months (longer than my affair lasted) -- maybe longer, because you can't verify phone records before Feb'09;
- They traded 140 texts per day on at least one occasion before you found out;
- She joked about trying on his uniform, and he joked about being present for that;
- He felt he needed to conceal this person's identity so that you wouldn't find out;
- She & he were in contact regularly as soon as he got away from the house;
- She called him "sweetheart";
- "Weird things" have happened that you suspect might be because of her. (Like what? Phone call / hang-ups? What else?);
- You asked him to help you get the phone-call records before February, and he said "There's no reason"?

I can't know for sure, but this adds up to suggest to me that your H maybe hasn't fully owned up to what he was involved in. (And with that length of contact, the fact that they're in the same town, and the volume of their communications, I could be wrong, but I'd bet that their affair was physical. The only argument I can think of against this conclusion would be if you have a complete record of texts for the 3+ months and there's NOTHING that hints at face-to-face meetings. You're NOT being unreasonable to have doubts, given these circumstances.)

The reason you're feeling like you can't move on is that you don't feel he's been completely honest with you. And if he HASN'T, then in emotional terms, in its impact on YOU, then the affair is still ongoing, for all practical purposes.

The phone-record comment you made is especially troublesome. In January, after I'd confessed to my wife, and was scared-****less about the possibility of losing my marriage, I went through all the old credit card & phone & bank records that I could find, when she asked for them, to show her expenses related to my A.; and I didn't squawk when she went & got additional records on her own from the phone companies (cellphone & landline), because I knew this info would actually help her trust me, by corroborating what I'd already confessed to her re: when my affair began & how long it went on. I'd think that if your H was seeing clearly & had it as his #1 priority to fix his relationship with you, he'd be bending over backwards to get you that info; but instead, by asking why you need it, he acted like he's still got facts he wants to hide. You're not being unreasonable to be unsatsfied with that. (He's in law-enforcement? Would he be satisfied with his own story if he was hearing it from a suspect?) And 5 months later, he still works in the same force as her every day, and hasn't done anything to seriously explore changing that situation. Sounds like he wants you to trust him again without taking some key steps needed to earn back that trust. No wonder you're feeling down.

Have you & your husband read "Surviving an Affair" (SAA)? It's the book that may have saved my marriage, because it allowed my wife & I to put ourselves into each other's shoes, emotionally-speaking. But we worked through it together, by ourselves as well as under the guidance of the marriage counselor whom we were seeing jointly; and we had to lay everything out on the table, and it took us months to get to the root of some issues & her feelings regarding what I'd done. I recommend it highly.

But folks here will tell you, your marital-recovery efforts will be compromised if you guys don't confront the No-Contact issue. (One of the things SAA insists on.) Seems like he wants to negotiate it down to "only occasional professional contact" [which you, by the way, aren't in position to completely monitor.] Which naturally leaves you wondering every day about whether & to what extent they remain in-touch. Ouch! At the very least, he could be looking for a job in another jurisdiction. "It's not an option" is probably not the truth. Up here in N.Va, life costs lots more, but there's law-enforcement jobs coming out the wazoo - maybe not as much as pre-recession; but if you've discussed this & he's acted like he's got no options, then I don't buy it.

Wish I knew what else to tell ya. In some ways it was easier for me b/c I didn't work with my OW, and she lived 12 miles away. But I changed my e-mail & my work phone #, and my wife knows she can access my call records directly with our phone companies anytime she wants. We had our pastor serve as a go-between with my OW to initiate "no contact". I've worked to do better at meeting my W's needs - spending more time in conversation, being totally honest, helping her more with the kids & housework. Even with all that, the last time we had a deep discussion about "trust", 3 months ago, she confided that it bothered her that she didn't feel like she could completely trust me yet. I haven't pressed the point, and I'm just happy overall with how things are going & with the fact that she trusts me more & more, little-by-little. But I've had to earn it little-by-little, and I'm not done.

Curious to know, what positive changes HAS you husband made since you discovered his A.?

EDIT to say: GloveOil has this right. Your husband hasn't given you anything -- actions, not words! -- to reassure you the affair won't re-start.

For me, I list it as an EA due to motive and opportunity. OM was 1200 miles away. The one time they ever met in person, I was with them almost constantly. Escalation was mostly captured on the snoops I had set up, so I caught it when it went from the "slow burn" of seven months of jokes about husband #1 and husband #2, to "run away with me".

I still had myself tested for STDs, as the two of them would have had enough "alone time" while my wife and I went on vacation and visited with him & his wife to have had opportunity. I was within fifty feet of them at all times during that vacation.

That said, I can never be 100% sure. The best I can hope for is to create an environment where my spouse feels safe telling the truth. She's admitted that they kissed on the cheek, and that he fondled her butt during a hug. Even that admission took over two months past D-Day, and had it progressed further I might have been waiting even longer.

I know I have a clean slate on the STD tests. She's spoken to her ecclesiastical leaders, we're going through Dr. Harley's books together 1 chapter a week, and we have been more honest about many things than ever before in our marriage. Some days -- like yesterday & today -- still suck, but I must simply acknowledge that I'll never really know for sure if she's lying. I can accept that and simply leave it alone, in the same way that she generally accepts and ignores my pre-marital dalliances with other women.

After catching my wife in an affair, my wife admitted to an emotional affair only. To this day, I believe it was a physical affair. Her declared love for the guy and many other reasons always made me believe it was more than an emotional affair.

We saved our marriage but to this day, over five years later, I still don't believe her. Over the years, she has changed her story to try and add more belief to the story but it has only made it worth in my belief of her having a physical affair. Her and I are back to normal but I will always believe she had sex more than once with her lover.

I think these emotional affairs are understated so the wayward spouse can save some faith with the betrayed spouse.

Keepingfaith,
The reality is it doesn't really matter if it was EA or PA - the truth is you don't have a M that has honesty and without honesty you won't be able to recover.

Bob's Toolkit for Betrayed Spouses

My FWH had EA and no I was not able to prove it was not PA. I have been on this site for two years and can tell you I went though the same phases as BS where WS had PA - it makes no difference. The foundation that built what you believed about your M has been shattered. Your WH will never understand the damage. Read the articles here. Get informed - knowledge is power. The support here is great and can help you get through.

Gg

Sorry, you are here, I too am dealing with a WH who has had an EA You can read my thread, i just started posting, I'm "swimming, but taking on water". I have felt all the same feelings you have and even felt quilty that I felt this way thinking, "it was only EA" but I have been devestated by it. I have gone 7 months into it and some days it hits so hard it's as if it just happened. The more I read, the more questions I have. My WH still has not done NC in the form of a letter or e-mail, he says he has put conditions in place that will not allow contact. She no longer works with him due to downsizing, he found out I was looking at cell phone records, after the fact and so now I don't know if he truly has come back to me or it he is just fogging. I feel your pain, I know that it is real and I don't know how it could be worse. I'm quite certain we all feel that way. I finally started posting instead of just reading because I feel so lost sometimes and crazy that I have lost 7 months to this and I'm sure the OW hasn't thought twice about her role in this. She!'s 24, he is 44! don't ya just love it. this year was my 25th anniver., our daughter is getting married in Dec. All of these happy things, colored in doubt and pain. My WH also says no PA, just a hand touch, hugging in the parking lot if front of others when she was let go, but they texted from March of 09 thru June 09 every day all day long, she was let go in April! The more i read, and hear, the more i worry You have come to the right place, so sorry you are here, sorry any of us are.

KF,

I agree with gg that it doesn't really matter if it was an EA or PA, with them continuing to work together and continuing to lie to you, there won't be recovery. OTOH, if it makes a difference to you, I DO think this was a PA.

Secondly, I don't believe your H when he tells you he never sees her at work. The behavior you describe of your WH telling you things like "you just can't let go" and turning it around on you when you question him is called gaslighting...and is a red flag that there is continued contact.

Even if they never saw each other, there will be no recovery if they continue to work together. There have been posters here for close to ten years that report they have never seen a M recovery when the affair partners work at the same place.

Yes, even though it has been several months you should still expose the A. Dr. Harley just talked about this in his latest newsletter.

Did you ever say if the OW was M?

Almost word-for-word what my husband said. He said he wanted to end it and get out of it before I got hurt. LOL Ummm....yeah. NOT DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE would have *assured* I wasn't hurt you d*ckhead.

GloveOil you have it right and sadly enough�you have spoke my gut feeling. The �weird things� have been (and these might sound crazy): someone put an empty beer box on our lawn mower and threw the key into the grass�same beer she drinks, a few �private� numbers have come up but we don�t answer�we have caller id and then a fake friend on facebook tried to add him as a friend.
I don�t have actual records of what the text messages are�only the numbers, days and times. I have not found where you can get that information�I so wish I had it!
We have not read SAA yet. I plan to check our local bookstore and if they do not carry it I will order it online.
As for changing jobs�he has not said that it is not an option. I know that he works for the best department within our area based on pay & benefits. I know this sounds crazy but I know he also would not be happy in another department. I sometimes feel that this should be about what makes ME happy or what will make our marriage work but at the same time I feel that making him change jobs would drive him further away.
He is trying to meet my needs more. He does talk more and he has definitely increase his help with the girls and even housework.
He is not happy with these forums. He thinks it is bringing everything up again. Which makes me worry�like you said�what is he afraid will come out.
I�m just like blindsidedbetty I am so tired of this taking up my life!!! I am so mad that it HAS taken up months of my life!!! I just want to feel like I KNOW the truth so that I can move on!!! I�m tired of my gut telling me�there is still something�something I can�t quite put my finger on�

The OW is not married...and like I said seems like the person who really does not care.

What is everyone's thought on having a face to face with the OW or the OW, myself and my WH?

Sadly enough this same thing happened to my sister. She actually met with the OW face to face. The OW was also a "don't give a crap" kinda person and made my sister feel worse...as if she "wasn't talking". And she just gave my sister smirky smiles.

You two cannot recover the M if plans to stay there indefinitely. It is basically the job or a recovered marriage. This is what Dr. Harley says about this:

It is OK for you to let him know the M won't make it if he stays there. You don't have to argue or threaten him, but just state it as fact. It's too bad he won't be "as happy" in another dept but unfortunately that's a consequence he has to face since he is the one who decided to have an A with a coworker.

I hope to see more of the BSs come along to offer you better advice than I can.

Possibly [assuming there's more to the story - and again, I can't KNOW that that's the case], your H may be afraid that he'll lose you &/or his kids if he reveals the full truth [if there's more to reveal]. So I'm not saying that I think he's beyond hope or unremorseful. But it could be that he doesn't yet comprehend how important honesty is for you & for restoring your marital relationship. (Concept of Radical Honesty is one of the things the two of you should read together -- it's in SAA but also on this site).

Re: whether to confront OW, better for you to hear from other BSs. How much do you know about her? You said he texted her an "it's over" message (which is not the same as "No Contact"); but does she know you're aware of the situation? I'm skeptical how much good it'd do b/c of the age & life differences you've mentioned: If she's got no husband, no kids, & only been old enough to buy herself a drink for less than 2 years, she may look at you like you're an alien from another planet. Maybe it won't do you much harm to confront her, but I dunno what cons there might be-- smirky smiles might be what you get -- I'd defer to BSs' advice on this. Maybe you'd get more mileage out of informing her parents what she's been up to (if they exist & you can track 'em down) - lots of kids her age are still relying on mom & dad for money, so if so, maybe it'd help to know what sort of life they're financing for their daughter. (Or maybe they lived the same sort of life themselves... it's such a crapshoot in that regard.)

How long ago was the lawnmower incident?

I wouldn't waste your time on the OW. The reason she's an OW is because she is also driven by selfishness, thoughtlessness and cowishness.

i agree with ourhouse, in my case OW is 24, WH already says she doesn't think they did anything wrong cuz there was no sx so what could i say to her that would make a difference. She does not have the capability of understanding the devestation she has been a part of, ruining a 28 year relationship, her marraige is only a year old and WH says they are not even in love, if this is true, what could i say to her that would matter. in my case WH even said they had a conversation about how much she liked me and how she couldn't contiue this because of that! Really? they then continued to talk all day every day for atleast 2 months that i know of. She knows our family, three kids, one of which is only 2 years younger than her! She knows of the impending wedding, and all of the turmoil we were going thru at the time. Did it matter? no, should it matter to her? no actually, it should have mattered to him. The buck stops with my WH not her, him. That is why the NC is so important to me and why it has to come from him. Why does he not get this, or is it that he doesn't want to get it