Hello All

Unfortunately my thread, my posts beginning to end, and all the great support/advice have been lost, however still have hope that they and others� threads/posts will be brought back to life. I so appreciate that older threads, like those in Notable Posts and Mark�s rant for newbies have been recovered.
Now, to start over�. And summarize in chunks� My signature line has basic details.

Without realizing it, WH began EA with OW in April/May 08. He was the LL coach of team that her son (and our DS 9) was on. OW was very helpful in the dugout� I had my own commitments to LL in that I ran the Snack Bar. In 2007, WH and I decided to volunteer and become involved in LL together. We actually made new friends and became close to several couples. I still maintain these friendships, WH will make contact when, IMHO, he feels/sees that they are caring/supportive of me and he doesn�t like it. I honestly believe he wants me to stay home, struggle, not make it on my own, beg him to be my savior, and yet feels like he needs to continue to hurt/punish me.

Dday in June 2008.�. WH comes home late from volunteer function at local Fire House, he was with OW. Now I know why he left the family celebration of our son�s graduation from elementary to middle school. I got the ILYBNILWY speech and that he wanted to move out after our big family vacation in July. Throughout all of this I got the I haven�t loved your for the past 2, 5, 8, 10 yrs, our entire marriage- never the same. I didn�t want to go on vacation and have that be mine and DS�s �goodbye� and the last big HURRAH of our family. WH assured me this could be our second chance, where we were going was �magical�. So we packed up and went to the sunny South for our 2 week long vacation. WH promised that there would be no contact with OW (there was). I asked him to leave cell phone home, but he insisted he should bring it in case we were separated at theme parks. I intercepted a text from OW� it just said �I�m sorry.� I confronted WH who said that he didn�t know why she sent him a text, he hasn�t contacted her, etc� Other than that, this was like a 2nd Honeymoon for us, even with having our 3 children with us. We even talked about future �stuff�, our aging parents, esp. his parents and how we could help them out. We were going to buy some land from them to help alleviate them having to pay taxes, etc�. Then we return home and it all goes downhill, he spends more and more time with her and her children, and said/displayed all the typical wayward garbage. I didn�t discover this site until late Dec 08. I never knew about exposure (didn�t start exposing until Sept) Plans A and B until then.

WH started renting an apt on 11/1/08 (but doesn�t move out until following month- WTH?). I filed for temporary custody 11/6/09 after hearing WH state that he will take boys whenever he wants and wherever, and will have them around OW and her 2 children (D14&S12) and I cannot stop him and he will give me money after he pays his bills. His wage garnished child support is so much more than what he thought. Her S12 is in same grade as our DS12(very hard on him), WH then files for D couple of weeks later- a knee-jerk reaction? His grounds are C&I treatment�. There are reasons from A-Z of my cruelty�.. Esp the emotional distress that was brought on by my exposing his adultery (not his words of course- he stated my telling of our private relationship issues) to family, our friends, even OW was greatly distressed by all of this. I controlled all of our money, he works and makes a great paycheck so why can�t he buy what he wants, when he wants�.. UMM b/c there are those things called living expenses raising a family, bills, maintaining a home, family vacations, etc�. BTW, he had his own credit cards and checkbook�..

To be continued�..

Kateydid

I am contesting WH grounds for divorce, my lawyer is very positive the judge will dismiss. In NYS grounds have to be proven. I've been assured that what WH has down for C&I treatment are complaints typical of a 17 yr marriage. These were all laughed about by my lawyer and his legal secretary, and I've been told that these will be seen as whining/compaining by the judge. My IC told me the same thing, and he is one of the local court's appointed psychologist. We have a hearing/trial on 11/4. However not sure what that would mean other than keeping us all in limbo. I can hope that if this were to occur, OW would tire of this situation and leave WH. It has been requested that I have exclusive use of marital home, as WH continues to come in house without asking taking items, he still has keys. I have been told I can�t change locks until judge says it is OK due to reverse abandonment. Even though he left in December, there isn�t any legal document separating us. WH could say to court that I want to come back, but evil/cruel BW went and changed the locks. I can counter file at anytime with Adultery, Abandonment, C&I treatment. My lawyer says wait and see what happens at trial. My lawyer is also aware of my desire to recover/reconcile my marriage. He is also an assistant DA and good at what he does; he came highly recommended. So, I have placed my trust in him.

OW history- She is a true-to-form typical Tramp-o-lean. I�ve been told this is what she does�.. Finds men to pay her bills. She is divorced from father of her children; their marriage lasted 4 yrs. She has been engaged 3 times to another man- she has called it off all three times. She cheated on him several times. She has had affairs with other married men as well. I am told that she will do this to WH as well. IDK� they seem to be so in love with each other�. You know they are soul mates.

OW�s recent tangled web�.. She had a boyfriend and his DS11 living with her (and her 2 kids, parents, and brother) from Fall 2007-April/May 08. She went on several trips with former fianc� during Spring/Summer 2008. She started another relationship that lasted from April 08-Oct 08. She still maintains �friend�ship with this �former� boyfriend (we�ll call him BF2)- he still has contact with her kids as she needs him to. BF2 is still in love with OW. There is a lot of cake-eating going on. HHMMMM�. WH was juggled last year�. But even with this pointed out to him he doesn�t care�.. They are soul mates. And, the kicker is�. WH and BF2 were friends growing up and continue to be.

To be continued�� Child Custody/Visitation up next�..

Kateydid

Child Visitation/Custody�

Currently WH and I have joint custody, and I have physical custody. Current visitation order states that WH has boys two afternoons/early evenings after school and every other weekend and while WH is exercising visitation there is to be on contact with OW and/or her children. This gets violated often, though WH doesn�t think that he is in violation.

Unfortunately, we all live in the same small town. I used to enjoy this atmosphere�. Not so much anymore. Everyone knows everyone� though this was helpful when I started exposing WH�s adultery�especially, when I was able to correct those who WH told that we just separated, we grew apart. I let them know that it was the adultery with OW that was the reason WH abandoned his family. Most are shocked by his behavior and choice of OW (not that any choice is a good one).

Unfortunately, DS15 and DS12 attend same schools as OW�s 2 kids, and DS12 is in same grade as her son. Thankfully, DS9 is still in elem. school. DS12 is faced with this situation daily. Currently, they are also on the same soccer team. I have told DS12 that on the field they are both part of a team, but off the field, on the bus, in school he does not have to interact with her son if he chooses not too. He chooses not too, though WH maintains that they are all friends.

WH continues to flaunt his adultery in front of our sons. Recently, on non-visitation day, DS12 told me how WH picked OWs son up from soccer practice. WH unrolled his truck window and asked our son how he was doing and how soccer practice was while her son �got in MY dad�s truck. He should have been there to pick me up and take me home.� At soccer games, which are on his visitation days, WH and OW and her daughter are all interacting with each other with DSs present. I have pictures as proof. Though WH tells me he isn�t in violation because they are in public. I do make sure to get DS9 out of their presence, though Law Guardian recently told me that I shouldn�t be doing this blatantly- Why not? DS15 just removes himself and usually comes by me anyways.

Through the end of last April, our sons and her kids were on the same bowling league� so uncomfortable as we would all be there together. I signed up the boys on a different league this season and WH was very upset by this. He even refuses to pay their weekly fee on his weekend visitation (though judge clarified last spring that he needs to pay for this and any other activities when he has visitation). What is he going to do in court�. Complain to the judge that I moved the boys so they wouldn�t be bowling with his girlfriend�s kids? I would love to see this. The boys were happy to move as 2 of their friends/teammates signed up for same league they�re in now. I also felt that if I kept them in the same league as OW�s kids, I was condoning the contact between WH and them. Wouldn�t his lawyer jump on this to get the no contact clause out of visitation order?

There are so many more instances where WH is flaunting his infidelity in front of our sons and violating visitation, putting the needs of himself, her and her children above our sons, though he claims they are his top priority. A couple of weeks ago on his visitation wknd he had a dance at fire house that he just had to volunteer at. The boys stayed at home with me and he told them he would pick them up afterwards. Well, he never showed up until 10 am the next morning because �they (fellow firemen) wouldn�t let him drive�. Again, placing blame for his actions on someone else. �Don�t start with me; Do you think I�m happy about this?� It certainly didn�t stop him from putting the many bottles of beer to his lips.

Getting closer to current status.... this is very draining re-typing some of this... I know I've left a lot out....

Kateydid

In July at a Family Court hearing the law guardian�s recommendations were presented. The two big ones were the boys requested to spend Monday and Wednesday evenings with WH, in addition to already scheduled Tu & Th, during the week leading up to his weekend visitation; and she had recommended Family Counseling for all of us together. Part of this recommendation is due to WH never talking with boys about his moving out and adultery and part due to my wanting to recover/restore our marriage. The boys have questions for WH and I�ve had to answer some of them. The only thing WH said, per DS12, was �So, your mother told you I was seeing someone else?�

The counseling would help address issue of slow integration of DSs with OW. I shudder at this thought and am fighting this from happening, especially overnights. I do not want DSs exposed to the environment she provides her children, her lack of judgment, her lack of morals, etc� Also, living just up the road from her is a relative who is a convicted level two offender. A few years ago OW�s D accused OW�s fianc� of inappropriate conduct (later recanted). I would never want our children left alone together. I was completely blown away when about a year ago, WH told me that OW is really a good person, I just need to get to know her.

WH flat out refused extra visitation with our sons. I know this is because he would not be able to be with OW for an entire week if he agreed to this. (Side track: WH currently works 3rd shift and has since 2007. Prior to this he worked 2nd shift from 1998-2007. I know this led to some stress in our relationship, but I supported WH with these differing work shifts.)

WH refused/disagreed with Family Counseling. Judge then set a trial for October, which was postponed until November at court�s own motion, and just informed now postponed until December at court�s own motion. So current visitation schedule must be adhered to and at least for Thanksgiving, I know that when DSs are with WH, OW and family cannot be around. WH is not happy.

Currently�..

I am in Plan A, but this is very hard with WH out of the house and I don�t have many opportunities. I just sent him some family pics of all of us on our vacation last year with a note of �just thinking of you and our wonderful vacation together�. Hopefully there won�t be a negative response.

I don�t believe Plan B is an effective option at this point due to the possibility of Family Counseling to include WH, DSs and myself� if only the court hearing would happen when scheduled so I would know. Or is Plan B still an option right now? I don�t want to establish no contact with WH then to have contact�. Is this correct on my thinking???? Do I have this wrong???? Clarification anyone- experienced vets???? What else should I be doing???

Also, WH ignores me as best he can (esp. in public), as well as flaunt his adultery in my face (which he is also doing to our sons whether he realizes it or not?). When at soccer games, he will call out to OW�s children, say things to all of them like �Ok I�ll see you later?� �Do you need me to bring anything?� (again this is a violation of vis. order). Almost like he can�t wait until his visitation is over with. I am hoping that as he spends more of his time with OW, practically lives with her and her family when he doesn�t have visitation, the reality of affair-fantasy-land sets in.

I have great support from some family and my friends. My closest relative lives almost an hour away from me. I do have my in-laws who live nearby (15 mins away). However, I don�t get much support from them anymore esp. MIL. This is a complete 180 degree shift from a year ago. I get the feeling that she is trying to undermine me as a parent with DSs. Also, remember one of WH�s older sisters assisted/encouraged/supports WH�s adultery with OW.

As for me personally.... I have learned in the past year that I am a conflict avoider and find it very difficult to set boundaries. Though, I am beginning to realize this and am trying to establish them. I am very concerned with what/how people perceive me and always want to please others, so much so that I act the way I think others would want me to. I give others authority over me so that I am always justifying my actions/decisions. I can now see that I let others, esp. WH, set the hoops out and I jump through them every which way to please them. I just need to get to the point where I see the hoops being set up and I choose not to jump through them. I am getting there.

I think I�ve summarized current situation. I know I�ve left quite a bit out, please ask for clarifications as needed.

Kateydid

I'm a conflict avoider and lack boundaries too. Read "Boundaries" by Drs. Cloud & Townsend if you haven't already. I read "Boundaries with Kids" by them as well. Excellent books. That's all the advise I can offer.....good luck!

I would ask your lawyer for what the child custody relocation parameters are in your state and begin the process of moving.

Moving is in YOUR best interest...even if you recover your marriage.

In most states, even under the temporary orders you are permitted to move within a certain mile radius. Maybe 50 or 100 miles. Maybe within the county. You mentioned you have relatives an hour drive away. Well that's likely only 40 to 50 miles, at most. You likely could move there or 1/2 way there without even having to petition the court.

I'm not saying move tomorrow. Ask questions and BEGIN the process. First step is to start a job search. If you divorce, you are going to have to work and THE JOB you find becomes the rational justification for your relocation (lest the courts believe you are doing it only to punish your WH to the detriment of the children).

Additionally, they won't likely make you do family counselling against your will. Even if they do, it could be stopped after just ONE session, IF, at that time, you indicate to the assigned/appointed counsellor that you don't feel safe there (emotionally).

I still think Plan B is the way to go. If you can't change the locks...then get a chain for the door (or one of those poles that make it so doors can never be kicked in). CHAIN or blockade the main doors all the time and use the garage door as your access point (changing the code on the garage door opener if he still has a remote control to it). Hide a remote outside somewhere so your children can get in too. Nobody will ever question a woman living alone with small children from taking extraordinary precautions against "intruders". Perhaps disconnect the doorbell as well so you and your sons won't be bothered by his incessant ringing of the bell and you'll have a good excuse why you didn't answer later on ("oh my, the door bell was broken"). He'll get angry and then start POUNDING on the door and by that point you became FEARFUL and didn't FEEL safe allowing him in.

Maybe you only do this when you are at home. Meaning he still has access (which your lawyer seems to think you must allow for now) but only when YOU are not there. On exchanges, the door is chained. You walk the kids out and only go back in through the garage AFTER he leaves. On drop offs...same thing. You meet him OUTSIDE. After he leaves, you open the garage and take the kids in. IF he RESISTS this, he'll have to do it openly and brazenly...IN FRONT OF THE KIDS...and you'll just have more grounds upon which to base your motion for "exclusive use of the marital residence".

So anyway...Katy, IMO, it's high time for Plan B. Soccer season is ending shortly. It's time FOR YOU to look after YOU.

YOU MATTER.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I don't know if this is a direction you were considering; however, very often the divorcing mom takes the marital residence in lieu of other assets/cash/alimony. In these days of upsideness it's not as likely, but in your case I think it would be a horrible decision. YOU need out of that town and that home is a trap if you "take" it in any divorce proceeding.

p.p.s. - What happens in NY if you "win" your divorce case. Do you just remain married indefinitely or will he just have to refile a brand new case in 2 or 3 years (by which time the affair WILL very very very likely be dead so the question becomes "will YOU have the desire to still reconcile" which is why YOU need Plan B)??? If the divorce case gets dismissed...what happens to the "motion for exclusive use of the marital residence"...is that motion "attached" or something to the temporary support matter or to his divorce matter (or are those matters consolodated anyway)?

Mr W-

Thank you. I know you posted to me prior to MB going into the Twilight Zone... I so wish I had my old thread back. You have given me things to consider and further explore with my lawyer.

I have thought of moving, it is always in my mind. However, I've been told that legally I can't right now. There is no reason to "up-root" DSs from the only home they've known and school- their comfort & safe zones. Isn't this what WH has done already on some level? Apparently, my hands are tied legally based on what you stated:
Tomorrow I have another pre-trial conference. This was just scheduled a week ago by the Judge. I don't know why?? since we had a conference last month- just the lawyers went before judge for all of 5 minutes- and trial was set for Nov 4. I'm nervous and anxious about tomorrow.

I will ask my lawyer to pursue exclusive use of home, husband turning his keys over to me, my being able to change locks without him being able to remove anything else from the home until this is all settled. Maybe the judge will give a temp. ruling on this tommorrow.

I'm not sure what it means if the judge rules against WH's divorce petition due to insufficient grounds. A lot to think about here.... I am coming from the perspective that the best thing to do is to drag the divorce out while WH is in active A.

But, I also know that I need financial protection for me and DSs and WH seems to be withdrawing more and more in this area. He didn't pay for any school clothing, school supplies; he doesn't pay anything towards sports teamwear, extracurricular activities, etc... Since I signed the boys up in a different Saturday bowling league (they were in same one as OWs kids last year), WH has refused to pay their weekly fees when he has them on wknd visitation. This is because they are no longer bowling with OW's kids (and OW is there as well). So he is having yet another tantrum. He was told that he is responsible for this as well as other activities (friends bday parties, school functions/sports) last Spring by Judge. I am keeping receipts of his fees that I pay. It will be something to see/hear him say in court how he isn't paying for this because DSs are no longer bowling with his girlfriend's children.

Not only did I move DSs because of their uncomfortable-ness and mine, but I thought that if I were to keep DSs in same league it would be misconstrued by WH's lawyere that I was condoning contact of OW&kids with DSs. Then the current order would be void. IDK if that makes sense.... just my thoughts all over the place.

Yeah... soccer season is done. Interestingly, DS12 has been able to play the last few games without OWs son due to his academic performance, and then he quit the team. Yesterday was the last game, OWs son (or daughter) was not there on school grounds, but OW shows up with WH to watch the game. I am really pi$$ed- who is she to be there and she did not look comfortable. I keep a smile on, socialize with friends, loudly cheering DS and team on. And where are they... standing alone without anyone around them to talk to... even DS15&DS9 don't go over to see him. Ahhh... the life of adulterers.

And YES, I DO MATTER!!!

Kateydid

Update on pre-trial court conference (trial for WH's divorce petition on C&I grounds next Wed)....

At least today I didn't spend 2 1/2 hrs in waiting room. This was done in 30 minutes. Just our lawyers went in to speak with judge. My lawyer comes out to meet with me and asks if I want a divorce to which I reply "NO", are you sure? "NO I do not want a divorce!" So we go to trial next week.

My lawyer then proceeds to inform me that I have a boyfriend?!?! WTH??? This is what WH and his lawyer are now saying... they are so trying to get something on me so they have valid grounds for his divorce. Or is it jealousy, and is that a good thing???

I did ask my lawyer who my alleged boyfriend is, because if I have one he certainly isn't meeting any of my needs nor am I getting any of the benefits (a great pun is in this sentence). Apparently, it is DSs Scout master... hmmm... this would go against the Scout morals, honor, etc... Interestingly, last Spring WH was asked to be an assistant Scout Master, but this did not get pursued any further b/c of WH committing Adultery and Council would not approve it. BTW, Scout Master has a GF, and I am still married and committed to my marriage vows.

OK, DSs Scout Master and I are friends (his son and DS12 are friends), but I am also friends with assistant Scout Master (her son and DS15 are friends). I assured my lawyer that she wasn't my girlfriend either All of our sons are on the same bowling league, too and we have all helped each other out with kids activities when we're going in different directions. I also have other friends outside of scouts and bowling and we support each other as well.

I guess WH still thinks I should be sitting at home, pining away for him, struggling to keep up with everything, and begging him to come back..... instead of having the support and kindness of friends. He also made a comment 2 weeks ago when he wasn't sure if he could bring DSs to a scout function and I made the statement fine either Scout Master or Assistant will be happy too. His comment was "No, I'll do it, they're involved enough already"

OH and this.... picked up DS15 from cross country meet last night and he was hopping on one foot due to twisting his ankle. His coach stated that she didn't feel he needed medical attention. I called and of course had to leave a message as WH just never answers when I call. He never called back to see how DS15 was, but requested to talk with me after court this am. He then told me that I should have "called him at her place (his exact words)" I told him that I didn't have her number, "you could have looked it up in the phone book", I will continue to call your cell phone- it is not up to me to track you down. Oh and if I do call her # should I ask to speak with MY HUSBAND. Didn't give him a chance to respond, just got on the elevator and left.

What a tool.

You're keeping written records of all this, aren't you?

Hi catperson-

Yes, I am keeping a journal of all of this. The way I figure it, by the time this is done I will have some great material to write a book and make a small fortune.

Perhaps we should all compile our stories in a book and have it published... HMMM .. what title to give it??? How about Stupid is as Stupid does.....

I met with my lawyer on Friday to discuss next week's trial on WHs divorce petition on C&I treatment. I am soooo nervous at the thought of getting on the stand to testify. I am also embarassed at the reasons of C&I treatments WH has listed. Again, I was assured that WH has no grounds and my lawyer is 100% sure (I am going with 95%- ya just never know) it will be dismissed. He said that he was going to ask for it to be dismissed before anyone takes the stand. Most of the reasons are based on his reactions/emotional distress of my exposure of his adultery and typical marital issues that all go through given the length of the marriage (including my lawyer and most likely the judge has/had these issues). If it is not dismissed then I will counterfile that day.

Unfortunately, the only thing that will be addressed is WH's petition, though we are going to try for basically keeping WH out of house. I was concerned that WH will say that he hasn't been living at our home for almost a year now and can use this as a basis for divorce of being out of the home for one year. However, there has to be a legal separation in place and I also know that WH uses this as his legal address even though he gets some of his mail at his apt. All medical and other insurance info gets mailed to our home, and he is even planning on voting in the district where our home is and not the district where his apt. is.

After Wednesday if it is dismissed and out of the way, then I do need to think and strategize more.... Legal separation and how to drag this out as well as a divorce and keep it all in my favor and the best interest of me and my boys. Just waiting for resolution in Family Court in Dec. Plan B is in my future just determining when it can be done so that it is a solid Plan B, not one with holes in it.

Also, if it is dismissed I know WH will be extremely pi$$ed to the nth degree. Then I think... How will he react? He likes to be in control and won't be. How will OW react to this? How will they react together? How will he explain the dismissal to others? He has already told all who listen, esp his parents and sister (the one who encouraged his adultery), how controlling I am. I guess it would mean that I even have control over the judge.

Thinking out loud & venting to fellow MB'ers....

Over the course of the last few weeks I have been thinking more and more on the issues of control, love/hate/indifference, and possibly jealousy by WH.

First Control. I am experiencing with WH the all encompassing wayward wanting to control the BS. However, sometimes it seems to cross over into punishment of the BS regardless of who else gets hurt (even the WH getting hurt in the long run).

Example: My boys wanted me to be able to walk around with them Trick or Treating yesterday. In July, when they met with their Law Guardian and discussed holidays, one of their requests was that both WH and I walk with them on Halloween. As this got closer and they knew it was a visitation weekend with WH, they asked their LG when they met with her 2 wks ago that they wanted me to go along with them. The LG was absolutely in favor of this and said so to my boys, and afterwards to me. LG told boys to request this of their dad, and then asked me to do the same. If WH was not in agreement to let her know & she would contact WH. WH didn't agree, even said in front of our boys that it would not happen, it was his weekend and it didn't matter what they wanted. I asked again yesterday morning, again same response; I requested to at least be able to take a picture of them in their costumes ( I bought them) to which I was denied. I din't stay at home wallowing.... I went with my friend and her children and unfortunately, I didn't see my boys (had my camera with me just in case).

In the past, WH acknowledged he knows how much it hurts me to not be with the boys on special occasions, even on the wknds they go with him for visitation. I haven't not been with the boys trick/treating since my oldest started. Big, Bad WH controlling BS. I in turn have always tried to include WH in all children's functions/activities. I know in turn this won't look good for WH in Family Court.... but really to what extent?? I also know that our boys will remember their dad saying no. I wanted to say to WH that this is a public event and he can't stop me, I could have staked out his apt and waited for him to leave and followed him... but would that have caused a scene?? Should I in turn tell WH that unless it is his visitation he can't show up at any of the boys' activities/events unless it is during his visitation?? Just the... unless you do what I want, when I want I'm going to use my control and punish you. I can't wait to let WH know that the boys' cousins (my niece and nephew) are having a family bday party in 2 wks (his weekend) and the boys want to go. And if he can bring them or if I can take them. I foresee the No, it's my weekend and they're not going. How to get around, or better yet THROUGH the issue of Control? Is it as simple as just by keeping a smile on your face?

Thanks to all who read my thinking out loud and venting posts... not sure if my questions have answers... or if I even have questions, I just like the opportunity to share with others who know what IT is and feels like.

Love/Hate/Indifference & Jealousy will be in my next post. I really need to go as I'm picking up a friend and we're spending the afternoon together. Yes, I'm ignoring the housework and the opportunity to get it done twice as fast without the boys underfoot.

Kateydid: I thought I'd point out that in my state, legal separation is recognized if both spouses continue to live in the same house but maintain separate lives, bedrooms, etc. It's in light of the financial hardship of maintaining 2 separate residences while fulfilling the legal obligation of the separation period (though oddly enough, my state does not recognize legal separation in and of itself--go figure?). Anyway, I thought I'd point that out. It could very well be different in your state but you might want to double check w/ the lawyer, just so you are not blindsided in court and find out that in fact WH has fulfilled the obligation of separation, even if his mail still comes to your house.

Thanks OurHouse.

I live in NYS, which is a fault state, even for legal seperations. It is my understanding that the same grounds exist for a LS as for a divorce, and they need to be proven. LSs have to be filed with the court for one year at which time a "no-fault" divorce can be pursued by either party. This is also true for seperation agreements in that they have to be filed as well in the court.

Well, I never did get to go with boys on Halloween, WH just outright refused (wouldn't even let me go and take a picture- nor did he). DS15 hasn't gone out in a couple of years, it would just be DS12&9. However, DS12 didn't go out either due to having a sudden stomachache. Was he nervous/anxious/upset about going with WH and not with me as well? or was it an actual stomachache? DS12 made the comment last week, that because his dad wouldn't say where/when they were going it was due to OW and her kids going to be there.

DS12 was right. Last night DS9 was telling me all about Trick/treating on Saturday night. WH took him to the town over and OW and her kids met them there and walked around together. They obviously didn't want to be seen in our town. DS9 throws in "but it didn't bother me". Was he somehow coached to say this by WH?? Ya know, the devil himself could have been in costume and DS9 would have gone with him because of the fun-ness of the night. Talk about taking advantage of our son and the situation!!!

I called lawyer this morning and after the trial on Wednesday we will be filing a violation of visitation order complaint. I'm not sure what will be/can be done but WH needs to know there are boundaries here (yes I am acting on a boundary).

The boys Law Guardian called me today to see how Halloween went and I told her. She is very upset with WH and how selfish he acted, esp when the boys requested I go along. I did inform her that I was filing a violation of visitation order. LG had talked with WH's attorney last week stating what boys have requested and his attorney told her that I had a boyfriend now. WTH?? where are they getting this?? LG also feels that it is to somehow discredit me, try to use this as a way to get OW/kids to be around boys during visitation. I again stated adamently that I didn't want a divorce and that I wanted to recover, rebuild, renew marriage with WH. She will be calling WHs attorney to follow up.

Kateydid,
Sorry that you find yourself here. Glad you are standing up for yourself with this D and not taking an active roll.

I hear from so many about how when they look back that they wish they were more aggressive with what they should have asked for.

When these waywards leave they turn "into stupid". The only words they can remember are me me me.

You are doing a great job with your kids and they recognize it. My prayers are with you.

Thank you Hope. You, along with so many others here, are in my prayers as well.

Through all of this what I want for my boys is to understand what a healthy relationship is and how to fulfill their roles in the relationship. I do worry about that as they continue to see what their father is doing and has done.

DS15 now has a girlfriend (where do the years go?) and I can't imagine what he is thinking given our current situation along with the normal teenage hormones kicking in, and how he is trying to grasp this?

Yesterday in phone conversation with boys' LG, she had stated that the boys do not like to talk about WH having a girlfriend and moving out because of his adultery. They try to "hide" what is going on, do not like to talk about it, and seem embarassed about what WH is doing (esp. DS15). This is concerning to her, as WH still has never talked with DSs about any of this. Other than his question to them "So, your mother told you I was seeing someone else?" I continue to shake my head in disbelief at this one. Perhaps WH thinks its OK then if he is just "seeing" OW and not "----ing, ----ing, and ----ing" OW.

If WH could only see what his actions have done, are doing, and will continue to do ..... I know one of the things we BWs & BHs all want.

Now, I need to be strong to get through tomorrow. And, to remember no matter the outcome of trial (and my mental/emotional status) to file the violation of visitation while still at the courthouse with my lawyer.

I think you're being a great mom and comfort to them. I'm sure you're going to talk to them about not being ashamed of what he's doing - but rather, being mad about it. They need to know it's ok to be mad at someone. Those who learn to stuff it, who are afraid to admit they're mad or hurt, turn into lifelong basketcases (raising hand here).

Good luck!

Good luck tomorrow.

Perhaps when you file the violation of visitation motion you may be able to request "supervised visitation" as one of your remedies. Won't likely get it...this time but I imagine it's a miserable experience to be told you might have to be supervised to be in the presence of your children.

But you must get the ball rolling on these violations as they are like traffic tickets that can accumulate over time. Sure the first couple times they might get set aside or slapped on the wrist but eventually these judges get sick of it and realize THEIR authority is being challenged. THEN...they start getting serious.

Also...seems to me your children MAY also fear losing their father like you seem to be. I mean...if he can throw away YOU why not them too? They don't want to risk it so they go along to get along (ds9) or they fiegn an illness so they can innocently avoid going along (ds12).

Mr. W

Thanks!!!

Yes, I need to do this... excellent point!


I'm raising my hand here too, heck, I'm jumping up and down on this!! But, through this I'm slowly (very slowly at that) working through not "stuffing" it down any longer and the fear of what others will think of me expressing my feelings. This is part of personal recovery, isn't it?