Hold on to your hats here people... E is gonna disagree with Mark! (and that never happens!).


Oh dear lord Mark... this made me shake!

First off, let me tell you... I am a molecular biologist. I will have a PhD here soon (in May). I teach an advanced undergrad class called "Metabolic Pathways" (a biochemistry course about metabolic processes on the molecular level in the body). I'm not saying this to toot my own horn (although it certainly sounds like it right now), just more so to say that I know what I'm talking about.

Carbs get broken down to GLUCOSE, not glycogen. Starch (in carbs) is a polymer of GLUCOSE molecules. It goes directly into the bloodstream where it is absorbed by cells (release that need it for cellular energy (via glycolysis and the citric acid cycle and ultimately in the mitochondria in aerobic respiration). Glucose that isn't immediately needed by the body is stored in the liver and in the muscles as glycogen. Glycogen is a branched polymer of glucose molecules-- the vast majority of the liver's mass is glycogen. Glycogen is cleaved to individual glucose monomers and released into the bloodstream upon the release of the hormone glucagon (insulin's "opposite").

You are right about muscles using glycogen (glycogen is stored in muscles, and muscles are capable of aerobic respiration-- they have lots of mitochondria-- where aerobic respiration takes place) as short term energy. Once that supply is used up... its on to anaerobic... which builds up lactic acid. Lactic acid can be recycled back to the liver to be processed.

Glycogen can't be stored as fat-- or attached to a fat molecule. GLUCOSE can be converted to fat molecules- which are entirely different than glucose. Fat molecules (fatty acids) are attached to a molecule of glycerol to be stored. A completely different molecule than glycogen. Glycogen is a polymer of glucose molecules- glycerol is a 3 carbon molecule with three hydroxyls that the fatty acids are attached to via a dehydration synthesis reaction.

The problem with the body is that it VERY MUCH prefers to run on glucose rather than fatty acids. In fact, the brain can ONLY run on glucose, it CANNOT run on fatty acids at all (hence why the atkins diet makes you feel so sluggish-- you've got no GLUCOSE!). Running on fatty acids also can cause ketosis-- a build up of ketone bodies in the bloodstream-- which if left unchecked can cause acidosis of the blood-- which is very, very, very harmful to internal organs and can be fatal. Sodium bicarbonate straight into the bloodstream is often the only way to reverse this (ie- emergency room).

So-- if you've got a glucose supply ready (ie, you just ate), your body will run on that. If you've got glycogen stored in your liver, you can run on that. Once you run out of glycogen, you start running on fatty acids alone. You run out of all glycogen after about ~12-16 hours of not eating at all.

My point is, running out of glucose/glycogen IS NOT a good goal.

The body can do some nifty chemistry.

I don't want to write a novel on here, but it is one of my pet peeves when people start propagating incorrect metabolism principals-- sorry Mark!

Weight loss comes down to eat less calories than you burn. Period. There isn't any magic tricks or magic diets. And some of them can be harmful. Its a balance between chemistry in the cells and hormones that regulate the chemistry. And you can try to mess with it- but the body is pretty good at overcoming our attempts to tinker with it (hence why there's no magic pill).

*steps off soap box*

E.

PS- Don't get me started on people that take "phospho-creatine" or "creatine". I can show you in plain metabolic language and with SIMPLE math why it is a huge scam. There's no question about it. Its kinda a joke amongst those that study metabolic processes.

Nice, eeyoree.
Now, can you weigh in on the women having affairs for sex deal?
Seems to me that if a woman wanted emotional connectionand that sex was not the goal,she would not devote herself to getting fitter and would not have sex with the guy. She could just as easily get her emotional needs met by another woman, a gay guy or some older guy that was not interested in sex.
I'm not saying having sex is the only goal, but, clearly, L4 had other options if she was looking to get her emotional needs alone met.
As a guy, all I would need to know is that my wife had sex with another man to realize that she was more turned on by him, than me. I think L4's husband knows this and it makes him mad.

Zelmo,

I will put my 2p in with this

I am a FBW and I have a high EN for SF.

I would much rather be hugged and complemented by my DH any day than have SF with him. Love is more than an orgasm, no matter how good it is. For me, sex is a nice thing I can share with the man I love. I would rather he scratched that itch than any other man in the world. If it didn�t love him I would rather take care of business myself.

I love before I bonk.

And in my younger more promiscuous days, the odd ONS was purely itch scratching and I had nothing to do with the gentleman involved afterwards. For most women, sex and love are two very different things.

I think there is too.

H likes things a certain way. He tends to control things. He's not a control freak, but he is very good at being passive-aggressive with me. I've talked about that here before. Our roles were the Taker (H) and the Giver (me). If I wanted something I'd do an IB or lie by omission. H got his way through IBs, AOs, and DJs. That's how we operated.

As part of my own, FWS version of Plan A, I returned to the Giver role -- as I needed to.

I'm trying to prove to H that I love him and that I need him. (Damn, here come the tears...) I have been for a year. He's noticed and he appreciates my efforts. He tells me so.

Most of you tell me that it's "only been a year" so I've accepted that I have to suck it up, Buttercup. I KNOW I'm lucky that H is still with me. I'm also grateful that he continues to provide for our family, he shows me more affection, he thanks me for much of what I do, he loves our kids, and we get along. I love being in his arms. This is all good.

And here comes the but...

But I want more. I so do NOT want to admit this here, because I am deservedly going to be called out as the selfish woman that I'm being. But simply put, I am not happy. I'm certainly not miserable. I have a blessed life. But I'm not where I want to be with H and I don't know how to get there.

What does selfish L4 want? For H to:

Commit to recovering our M.

Do MC with me.

Go to IC.

Meet my ENs for conversation, admiration, SF, and domestic support. (He�s much better at the affection.)

Stop with the IBs, AOs, and DJs.

Join me in MB.

Wear his wedding ring.

Tell me that he loves me.

I'm beginning to believe nothing is going to change. If we were moving forward in some way and even remotely working on R and our M, I�d be optimistic. But we aren�t. We�re just going along, spending day after day doing our thing. In the meantime, some old habits are returning on H's part and I'm fighting the urge to return to my ways too, if I haven't already.

Based on this and what I'm hearing from others, the fact that I might be meeting most of H�s ENs doesn't matter. I need to meet all of them and especially PA in a fantastic manner in order to show H I'm serious about him. I'm not typing this begrudgingly. I'm typing this to open my eyes to this realization. I can shower and brush my teeth every day and put on the heels, make-up, lotions, and nice clothes for the rest of my life but it doesn't matter if I don't have the body for it.

I'll do it. I promise I will. It's very important to him and because he is important to me, I will lose the weight.

I will try harder, E.

I don't know. But I'm going to focus on the former.

L4, I knew you would have to take only part of my post and focus on one point that was essential for you, but I am disappointed at the one you chose.

I probably worded my post badly, but I was not telling you to knock yourself out (even more than you are already doing) meeting his ENs. I certainly do not think you should aim for anything like 116 pounds, and I'm not sure your H means that he wants to see you literally weigh 116 pounds. You did say you had to fall ill to get there, and it is not a normal or healthy weight for your height. I don't think your H wants you to be ill or unhealthy, and I don't know that men like very thin women. (Being over-thin will probably make your face look older, so there's another reason for not getting there.)

My post was trying to make explicit the thing I thought Mark was alluding to but not wanting to put into words. Perhaps I was wrong to use my feelings as a BS to try and explain what I thought Mark was getting at.

So, L4, the problem seems to be the uncertainty as to whether these desires are possible, especially after an affair(s) which may make attaining them even more difficult.
No one has a crystal ball. You know your H better than I do, obviously.What do you think are the odds? What are acceptable odds to you?
I feel bad for you, as you have the self awareness to realize that your own actions may have decreased the odds of any of your goals being acheived.
Do you think , if you put the question to your H, he could accurately tell you if he is the type of person who can get past this?
I was talking to a buddy today, another lawyer I met on a different site, whose wife cheated on him. They divorced. We were trying to be honest about ourselves and what might have happened had our WWs done the type of work you have been doing.
Now, I vacillate on this, sometimes thinking I could have got past it . But, my friend, who is actually a really nice, compassionate man tells me that when he is being honest, he knows that he would have never let it go. And, he really is not a [censored] or jerk or anything. Just a decent guy.
I'm not sure if one can ever be certain. But, at some point one or both of you is going to have to figure out if your H will ever be over it.
And, if he cannot, you know what? He is still a decent guy. It is not any type of shortcoming. Sometimes, apparently, the denaturing of the relatuionship is just irreversible.
On the up side, as I have said in the past, I think, on whole, he is doing pretty well. The majority of guys, IMO, would have bolted after this. He must be a pretty strong guy and have love for you.

Hold on SC... Still working. So much good stuff from so many. I'm also not having a very good day emotionally. So please bear with me. (Or is it bare? I never remember.)

Mark - I'm exhausted reading all that you do. Your narrative reminds me of my father. He is also always doing something -- often for others' benefit. I'm sorry the investments you've made in exercise equipment and helping your W haven't produced the results that you want. I gotta admit, your posts on this have been hard for me to read.

SC - I did not miss your whole point. Really. You wrote what needed to be said very properly. Thank you.

Lil - It is theoretically easy, isn't it. Thank you for visiting.

Sere and LG - You two articulated too close to home. I'll address your points in another thread, because it's tough for me to respond in this moment. Sere, I'm glad you're back. I've had something to say on your thread's topic for a few days but am trying to think of delicate ways to say what I want to say. Will try to post there soon.

E - Can I let go of my hat?

Ivetz - Hi. So good to see you. You're sounding much better on your thread but I'm still glad E is not letting you off easy.

armymama - My horrendous schedule will be better once my contract job is done in a couple of months. It comes to a head when I lead a training week in D.C. in three weeks then after that, things will die down a lot with that job.

Zelmo - I answered Mark's post and agreed with what he said, but you asked for more...

This is spot on for me too, Zelmo.

I love sex. SF currently is among my top 5 ENs and probably has been for a few years now. But it's not #1. I've had one ONS in my life and it was in college. I hated myself the next day and never did it again.

When I was involved in my A 16 months ago, I believed at the time that I didn't love my H and that I was in love with the FOM. I had sex with him because I thought I loved him, he asked me for sex, and after some convincing on his part, I complied because I wanted to make him happy. I'm not saying that I didn't want it. FOM did not force me. But I did not meet FOM that morning with the goal being sex. My agenda was to be in his arms and have him tell me everything was going to be all right. I don't mean to offend anyone with this talk, but you're asking me for my frame of mind at the time, Zelmo, and that's where I was.

As for getting fit for FOM... My endorphins were on fire during my A and I could live on very little sleep over a few days -- just as SC pointed out. I didn't want to spend time with H. I didn't need soothing or comfort from food because FOM was doing that.

So... Energy + Time + No Food = Lost Weight.

When I feel badly I eat crap. Food becomes my comfort. When I feel badly about myself and I'm eating crap, I do not sleep well. When I don't sleep well, I continue to eat poorly and feel badly.

So... No Energy + No Time + Lots of Bad Food = Gained Weight.

It's a combination of things, Zelmo. In short, during the A I felt good I lost weight. (I felt guilty about what I was doing, but not enough to stop wanting the good feelings.) And for me, feeling good is the driving force for me to be fit - man or no man.

Since D-day, I feel like sh** about myself, what I've done to H, and what I've potentially done to our family. Therefore the latter of the two equations is what I'm working against.

And I am determined to break the cycle.

About getting that spiritual connection from another woman or a gay or older man? For me, intimacy is a strong component of that connection. It's important when I'm in a loving relationship, just like Lil said. But it's not what drives the relationship.

Well good thing you got those fancy dancy tisssssues of yours ..... (((((L4))))), that really is a sincere hug!

And it's bayer, as in I'm going to need a friggin' aspirin to catch up around here.

Is that some Canadian joke, Vitt?

L4, don't you start crying now.

I meant this ....

you are too cute!

Hoping to get some posting in tonight, key word hoping!

I understand. I don't think I'm jumping through hoops in that I'm not asking him every day, "How are you doing? How can I help you heal?" and I'm not following him around like a lost puppy anymore.

I don't know this. But what I think...

As y'all know, H has had a lot of abandonment in his life. As he said, he thought I was the one person in his life who wouldn't betray him and leave him behind. And yet I did just that.

We had problems in our M that H either didn't see or didn't feel needed addressing. Whatever the reason, he didn't want to work through them with me until I forced his hand with the MC last year.

I think that H feels me cheating is the biggest problem in our M. And it is the doozy. But the other stuff no longer matters any more, is what I think he thinks based on conversations we've had.

H can't work through my cheating. If he were to do that, it might mean facing other heartbreaks and problems in his life and he's always gotten along just fine by covering the hurtful stuff up and pressing on. It doesn't do any good to re-hash and talk about things so you just pick up and stumble forward if need be.

He can't/won't work through what I did (can't forgive me, can't understand it, can't face it, or whatever) and because of that it'll always be there, raw and painful. He's trying to and bury it but the stench can't be covered in dirt.

I, on the other hand, am trying to work through it. I've come to see why I cheated and what I did and who I hurt and the fallout and the pain and what I must do to be whole...

But a big part of my processing is dependent on my H. He is my measuring stick since he is the one most affected by my lies and if he can't get through this, then what right do I have to try to move forward?

Add to that the original problems in our marriage have not been fully addressed and have not been solved... And have returned. Not with a vengeance (yet?) and not as out of control as they used to be, but they are here. They impact how I feel about H and about us. Yet, because I'm the only one who seems to notice or worry about these other issues and I'm the one who has to make up for what I did, I keep trying to push these marital problems aside. We can't address them yet because H has to want to address them. And he can't/won't because then that means looking at his potential faults. It's easier to have a single focus. Our problems are L4's fault because she cheated and lied.

So that's what we do.

H doesn't hold my infidelity over my head on an ongoing basis. He does use it, I think, when he wants to put me in my place.

Does any of this make sense?

I agree and he has admitted as much.

So what can I/should I do?

So awesome to see you, V. Where have you been? Ready to start up your new thread?

Sorry that I had to explode my emotions all over here in the last few days while you were away. I know I have been rather reserved of late so this is probably a shock to your system. I have sooo much going on in my head and because I'm not doing the IC thing any more, this is where that stuff has gotten dumped.

Our anniversary is today. I got H a card and left it on his desk chair late last night.

I worked-out this morning. Got the kids ready, made my healthy lunch, put on a nice skirt, styled my hair as I know H likes best, and put on my 4" pumps.

H was pretty distant as we passed each other in the hall and kitchen. He was changing batteries in smoke alarms. He didn't touch me until I initiated a hug. He asked how I was feeling and when I told him I still have a bad sore throat, he said he was sorry and I know he meant it. He offered to take DD6 to swimming tonight and I said no but thanks, as I want to go and read. I like that 30 minutes where I'm allowed to just sit.

As I was about to leave for work, H said he got my card but hadn't read it.

We've IM-ed here and there today as we usually do -- about the kids, our work, boring conference calls we're on, and the day's news. I have no expectations for tonight but I'm hoping H wants to be with me.

Tomorrow night I'm taking DD6 to see my dad. I'm still working on getting a sitter for Saturday so I can take H out on a date. Sunday morning I leave for training in Ann Arbor until Wednesday night.

If only I knew L4. What I do know is that it takes a lot of introspection, soul searching and bravery. Most of all your H has to really WANT to confront all these issues. It's so much easier to bury pain than to face it head on, in the short term anyway. We all know where this leads in the long term. For your H, it must seem like he's never been enough for others to want to stay with him. Not lovable enough, not good enough, not handsome enough, not funny enough, not man enough. He's thinking he has NEVER been enough, even when he's tried so what's the point of even trying his best to be the best he can be? People still leave him or find someone or something better than him.

What you really don't want to do is stay now, allowing him to treat you badly because you think you deserve to be treated badly, because his behaviour will get worse not better. If he can't get people to love him by being the best he can be then maybe he'll get people to at least stay with him by keeping them in their place and controlling them.

Yes, you did a terrible thing, and yes you need to do all you can to compensate him for the grievous harm you have done him, but I see you doing that and at some point he has to accept that and move forward with you.

I think IC is possibly the only way to go for your H because I can't imagine that he will feel safe enough with you to open up to you and make himself vulnerable. I know from what you've said before though, that your H will not want to go down this route. As you said, he will instead focus on you and all your problems because that keeps the focus away from him and his. If not IC, then there are loads of books out there that will address his issues. How about counselling with Steve again to see if he has any thoughts on what more you can do to draw your H in?

You listed the things you needed him to do so that you can feel loved and you can begin recovery. Does he know the things you need? Is it possible for you to have the conversation with him about what you need? You write very well so could you write him a love letter which outlines the things you need in a loving and positive way? Maybe if you paint a picture with words for him of how you see your M in 2, 5, 10 years. Let him know what a wonderful, loving, and SAFE place your M can be, and tell him that you want this with HIM and ONLY HIM.

Oh, I don't know L4. It's so difficult to recover with a spouse who is so reluctant. I'm sure deep down that he wants exactly what you want, but I'm betting that he is still way too scared to love you meaningfully and deeply again and that has to change somehow.

I so hope you can get some advice from one of the vets about this and it can be turned around. I just feel for you both so much.

We need a good brainstorming session to get this worked out.

I'm thinking of you L4 and Mr L4 too.

Oooops, I forgot.

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!

I'm gone for a day and get corrected by E and fall so far behind it takes me all night to catch up (JK)...

V, got any more of that aspirin?

Zelmo: definitely love before bonk, never did bonk FOM. Still trying to get there with H and I always used to have such a high sex drive before all this mess.


Hey L4

Just passing through. Joining wiht you on the weight loss, I'll be up 40mins earlier every day to get in a workout, just a quickie - increase my energy levels then I know I will start eating more sensibly again.

You know I'm useles with the other stuff - no pateince me, I think your H could give a bit more back - if he's hanging around he could at least put the wedding ring on. He for sure needs IC (if that isn't a DJ) and to borrow J's book about Passive Agression.

Big big hugs and you have a good old cry (lots of nasty toxins released in tears and what with the stress of everything) it'll do you the world of good.

We're here for ya

L4:

Sere is making some valid points. And your listing, about what you want from your marriage, is the whole existence of MB:


None of the above are selfish. Sounds like, at a bare minimum, an MB type of marriage. And YES, a formerly wayward person CAN ask for these things in the future of thier marriage.

If the betrayed spouse isn't interested, then they have made a choice, just as the wayward one made a choice to have an affair. They have made a choice to have a marriage that could be better in so many ways, but they would rather stew in thier anger or whatever emotion they want, and suffer from that.

They can also choose to GO. Krazy did, after three years. 6yearsleft did too. Because they realized that what the wayward considered recovery just wasn't good enough. Krazy's not "good enough", wasn't so bad in many respects, but it wasn't enough for him, and he realized that it would not get any better, and 6YL, because to the WW, it was all his fault.

And sometimes, this is just how marriage is. But that is how your marriage got into such a rut. And a marriage as described is a marriage before MB knowledge. And not to USE what is available here after you have been exposed to it is criminal as well.

And as Sere pointed out,
if he doesn't want too, then your marriage is doomed. Had Zelmo's XW had thrown him half the bones you have given your husband, maybe he would still be married, Z's friend also. They might be decent guys. They might have been wronged by thier XW's. But they were never given the chance to see thier XW's attemptt to get "right"

Mr L4 is getting to see it. His choices are plain. Stay and work, or GO. L4's choices are plain as well. Stay on the path that you are on, hope that husband joins you, or GO.

A long time poster who was here for over seven years, posted an update one day, that 4 years later, the marriage was better, much better. His W's A, had faded. But the hassles of life still continued. And he realized that these hassles had nothing to do with the A, anymore. They were the things that everyday, you just had to deal with your spouse about. You can choose to avoid them, or address them. Avoidance leads to disaster. He said it wasn't the ideal MB marriage, but it was WAY better than what he used to have. He learned alot to get to this place. So had his spouse.

And sometimes, that is all you can hope for. And I know it is what you are hoping for. And if Mr. L4 isn't going to do it, then the rest is fairly easy to figure out.

LG