Well, HW left us, Ivetz is avoiding having to answer questions and L4 is MIA.

So, SC, your in NW England? I saw some video of the flooding around Kendall and Cockermouth. I also saw that a police officer was swept off a bridge and has since been found dead.

We've had severe flooding near here a few times and the force of running water can be amazing. The town we live in is said to be a Native American name meaning "where the waters meet." We've been known to flood every now and then...

Springtime is pretty typical.

Mark

Actually I have managed to be absolutely desperate to go and not being able to without a tap running and someone quietly chanting the magic words outside the bathroom door twice in my life.

I was in labour both times

Oh, the weather in the UK has made international news, then!

No, I'm diagonally opposite - in London, SE England. The rain is ferocious here but the lie of the land does not lead to much flooding. It does happen occasionally, though.

I don't think the board ever recovered from the meltdown. I don't know why; there have been others before, after which posting was slow but it grew back.

I'll have to catch up on HW's and Ivetz's threads. I wasn't aware of that they were actively not posting, if that makes sense.

Night, Mark.

I'm here. I'll post what's going on tomorrow when I get a chance.

Hello Looking4,

We are so glad you're back!

I don't think Mark could have lasted much longer...

He has to pee.



Jim

Looking forward to your update L4. I so hope you have positive news to share with all your friends.

Mark, I'm in NW England, in the county of Lancashire which borders Cumbria where all the flooding has happened. It has been awfully wet here and in Cumbria, they had the most rain in a 24 hour period since records began. We're about 45 minutes away from Cockermouth by car.

And it's still raining.

sorry for the tj L4. I know you won't mind though.

Well she isn't using the thread. Somebody might as well get some use from it...



BTW, can we get a tongue-in-cheek smilie?

Hi.

I stepped away because I didn�t agree with your post, Jim. Because I have the highest regard for you, and because several agreed with you including people I respect very much, I needed to re-evaluate what I understand MB to be about.

I didn't agree because I do not believe that "IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOUR SPOUSE IS DOING OR NOT DOING." I have believed all this time that how you treat your spouse does matter if you want a healthy relationship. That�s what I thought MB believed too, with its ENs, LBs, POJA, RH, etc. Yes, I am the FWS. Yes, I have to carry the load. And I have. And at this point I won�t apologize for daring to ask my H to treat me with consideration. To not LB.

To be accused of still not doing enough (which is what I felt was happening), frustrated and hurt me. To have five others agree with your post confused me.

Because this is what my spouse is doing and if y'all tell me his behavior is acceptable, I'll learn something. Keep in mind these things did not take place three years ago, a year ago, or even a month ago. These things have all happened within the last week:

H said that he wants recently wed friends of ours to call him so that he can tell them "...how crappy marriage is at 13 or 14 years."

During our date that I had planned, we were talking about a friend who just became pregnant. I reminded H with a smile how when we married I wanted to have many children, at least three. H responded out of the blue with, "You wanted to have more kids with FOM. You didn't want a third with me."

H took our children to a party for 2 hours without asking me. They left while I was at the grocery store.

H mocked my issues that I have with food.

He made an incredibly degrading comment in the middle of SF.

He told me that is was okay for him to interrupt me when I was talking because he knew what I was going to say and he didn't agree with me. He said what I had to say didn't matter.

And yesterday he told me that he doesn't love me.

Some might see this as a laundry list of faults, but I see LBs. And my L$ is being drained.

And what am I doing?

I know I'm not perfect, but according to my H I have "corrected what he says is wrong." I write this because I heard so from H�s own lips yesterday that I am "DOING what [I am] supposed to be doing".

Yesterday morning H and I talked for 2 hours. H told me again that he knows I have changed and that he knows I'm trying hard. He said I am a wonderful mother and our kids are very lucky to have me. He said that I am being a good wife and he's grateful for all I'm doing. Later in the evening as part of another conversation, I looked him in the eyes and told him (as I have before) that I will quit my jobs, pack up, and move with him to Indianapolis if he said that's what he needs and he said, "I know." When I asked him directly how I can improve or do more for him, he said there is nothing more that he can think of that I can do to help him or our M.

Jim and Mrs. Flint and many of you here� Our post D-day situations, our M's, and our attempts at recovery are apparently different. Our reasons for being here may have started off the same, but as our D-days fade from view, our situations become more like apples and oranges.

Those of you who are recovering are such inspirations and admirable examples. H�s and my reality is that in the over one-year since our D-day, my BS has not embraced MB nor has he decided he wants to try to recover our M. (More on this in another post.) And that's not the same for most here. I can't think of a BS who is posting in "In Recovery" who as of a year past D-day did not subscribe to MB philosophies or did not want to attempt recovery. If I�m mistaken and there is someone here who didn�t love their FWS or hadn�t found MB as of the one-year mark, please raise your hand.

I�m here because I know you care for me and for my H � all of you. Everyone here is incredible. And I�ll share with you in a moment what has been happening in my household.

Mark, I've submitted another request for drumming fingers so you can put in a request for the tongue-in-cheek.

And I promise I will not step away again of my own accord without first giving y'all a heads up.

Thank you for caring.

While I was away...

My father has been told he has to wear his hard neck brace 24/7 for another three months. He is walking and is doing all that he can for Mom. His spirits are amazingly good.

My mother apparently does not have Parkinson's disease but remains undiagnosed. Hopefully her scans and tests after Christmas will help us determine what is wrong.

My high school friend who had been in a coma since April passed away last week and I attended his funeral yesterday. He was loved by so many.

October produced my highest earnings since I was laid off in summer 2008.

My consulting job has turned on its head and the training agenda that I'm to lead in 9 days before up-to-40 people and that I've been working on for the last few months, has been completely altered in the last 48-hours.

My full-time job has dissension among its upper ranks and I�m a bit worried.

H's cousin is in need of weeknight housing and she will be staying with us weeknights for an undetermined amount of time.

We watched Fireproof. H thought it was unrealistic because the couple didn�t have children. He also didn�t agree with the premise that following God can make a great marriage, since I was raised Christian and am a practicing Christian yet I cheated on him. (I tried to raise other issues that the movie addressed but H kept talking about it in context to my betrayal.)

During our talk yesterday, H told me that he doesn't know what marriage is, he no longer believes in it, and he won't wear his wedding ring because marriage has no meaning to him.

H thinks I'm a fantastic mother and that I'm about the most thoughtful, kind, loyal, and considerate person he's ever met. He wishes I would have applied those characteristics and would have thought of him when I was cheating on him.

H told me he will not commit to trying to save our M. He is here for the kids and can't commit to any more than that at this time. Maybe in time he�ll feel differently.

H told me that he does not love me. There is no confusion on this. I asked him, "Do you love me?" He said, "No."

H believes therapy is a waste of time and won't do it.

And I've lost nearly 6 pounds.

Now you're caught up.

H offered to sleep in the guestroom last night. I told him, "You're still my H. As long as I'm your W, I want us both in our bed. Unless you want differently."

I'm numb. But I'm still here. And over the last 24-hours I�ve become more accepting that this M is likely over.

We�re getting along. It�s status quo and we had our in-bed snuggle today. I haven�t given up, but I�m also no longer in the clouds about saving this M. I have to work on me and if H wants to join me in working on recovery, fantastic. Whether just his recovery or ours, I'm here for him and always will be if he wants my help.

Thanks for keeping the thread alive. I hope I didn't make you hold it too long.

I just want you to know that I am sorry for all the sad events of recent weeks, L4. You have had some terrible things to deal with and my heart goes out to you. Please take comfort from the lovely things that H said about you. This marriage might not work out (and yet again, it might) but you always be the wonderful person that H described you as.

I for one will be here for you as long as you WANT me too.

First, I'm glad you are safe. Second, there is way too much on your plate today to start picking apart what is or what isn't happening.

Third, you are absolutely right about ONE THING... you can only work on yourself for recovery. That's been the whole truth the whole time. You need to HEAL for YOURSELF and become the woman you and G-d work out together.

Lastly.... my recommendation.... just BE STILL... let it settle inside of you and let G-d reach you for your next step.

Oh.. and WE LOVE YOU...

You have no idea how much.

L4,

These ladies and gents obviously care about you so much. it's about more than "look what you did wrong" for them, though they don't shy away from the tough stuff either.

Your efforts and thoughts have been a help to me, and I hope can encourage you. You are a strong woman to so earnestly seek help. You are willing to look at yourself honestly. I see amazing things possible for your life. When you get down, go back to those affirming posts and read them, knowing that people here wouldn't be writing those things if they didn't mean them.

You are greater than you could dream.

You have email!!!

So much I want to say, but I need to make sure I say it right, so I'll sleep on it before even trying.

I'll be back...

I have second row seating BTW....

OK, L4.

I see you wandering around MB.

How are you?

Thank you, everyone.

I'm doing okay, Lil. It's kind of odd. While yesterday's conversation is weighing on me, there are so many distractions going on (I'm running through a demo I have to present tomorrow -- learned about it yesterday) so I'm not really allowing myself the time to dwell or think about all that was said and all that I might be feeling. My plan at this time is to continue as I have been, get through the holidays, and then see where we are.

H was sweet yesterday. He knew I was shaken by things. He came into my office after I had returned from the funeral and just stood there. He asked how I was doing, put his hand on my shoulder, and asked for a kiss. When he leaned down, he didn't offer his lips but his cheek.

H went out with some friends so I put the kids to bed. DD6 made a comment that made me cry. I try not to cry in front of the kids but I couldn't stop. I told them it was because of the loss of my friend. They were both so sympathetic and comforting, offering me the best hugs and care. I took them into my arms and held them close.

I could feel throughout today that H was trying to gauge my mood. I stayed upbeat and engaged, cleaned the kitchen, did laundry, got the guestroom ready for H's cousin. Like it was just another day.

Perhaps I'm in denial???

Queenie, can you save me a seat next to you?

Oh cr*p L4, I'm heartbroken that something I said left you feeling hurt and sad. I'm so sorry.

I assumed you understood my feelings about your H's part in your R. I have been vocal on your thread about my frustration at your H's attitude towards you and his lack of effort in recovering your M.

I've highlighted the word recovering because I do not think it is now good enough for him just to be physically there.

I was so upset at the way your thread was going a couple of weeks ago. You seemed to be turning yourself inside out to please your H in the hope that he would respond by buying into a true recovery. His assertion that you should somehow be a size 2 to make you physically attractive to him just hit a raw nerve with me, especially with everything you were doing, with him doing very little to meet your EN's.

I liked Jim's post because what I took from it was that it was about love. It was about loving someone despite their issues. I read his post and thought of agape love. I thought of CS Lewis describing.."a selfless love, a love that was passionately committed to the well-being of the other".

For me, I saw Jim simplifying things, asking you not to run round in circles trying to say the right things, lose the right amount of weight, be a size 2, or wear the right clothes, or perfume. I wanted to say something similar to you but my reading od Jim's words was that the only thing you can actually do is truly love your H, and if you love your H as in the agape way in which we understand love, and he is too much of a knuckle head to appreciate that, then you have your answer about your M.

I can see now how you could think that I was advocating that you must tolerate his abuse or if not abuse, total lack of care yet still find a way to love him passionately. I am sorry that I didn't consider that the post could be interpreted so differently by different readers.

I hope you'll forgive me L4. I am truly sorry to have contributed to your sad time and I also want to offer my condolences on the loss of your friend. You are having such a tough time and I should have been more considerate.

I cried when I read your updates this morning. You have done everything you can and your H will lose a treasure if he cannot find it within himself to forgive you. At the moment, he seems to get more out of punishing you and that is just not acceptable.

I hope it is some small comfort to you to know how much you are loved, admired and respected here. If we (and there are many BS's that feel that way about you) can feel such love for you, then your H must be working really hard to keep his back turned on the changed you.


I'm sending you lots of love from rainy england and apologies too.

Sere,

Your thoughts have been mine too.
My interpretation of Jim's post was similar to yours, not so much selfless love but a continuing of L4's efforts towards her H and her self worth.
An encouraging post none the less, to me, that I could relate to my own M, a reminder so to speak.

But, we are not in L4's M nor do we have the struggles of a resistant spouse to engage in R.
This is where, like L4 pointed out, the path changes and it is difficult for us to relate.

Where I am in R, influences my view of what others write.
I honestly can't put myself in L4's shoes, I can't feel her pain, but I certainly feel for her, as
do so many of us like you said.

L4 ..... chin up, there is always a plan for every step of this brutal
road called R, whether it be within the M or within one's self.
There is always a plan.

You know where I am.