Hi SugarCane and Brutallyhonest28,

Just to clarify before this thread is completely jacked! WS has always expressed an interest in living in US and I am not fussed either way. I really wouldn't mind a change of scenery so if WS wanted to re-commit to marriage I would be happy to move to US. However, he is on long term assignment with a UK company and the possibility of him getting permanent employment with a US company is very low, given the current economic climate and the strict laws in the US with regard to employing non-Americans.

Counselling with Steve, I got the feeling that he could give me no more additional advice other than to continue what I was doing and to let WS know in a variety of ways how much he is hurting me. He said Plan B would not work for us and I had to maintain the connection that WS and I have however I can. What I was / am doing is to send jokes, news links, e-cards, little gifts in the post. Try to meet admiration need when we speak etc. Don't talk about the future but to somehow convey the potential in a future with me. In all honesty, I felt that Steve didn't hold out much hope for us.

TM

Thanks for clarifying things TM, i dont know why i got the impression that you dont want to live in USA. My mistake.

how about this fair resolution.

Contact WS by email tell him that you were hurt by the email that was sent to by him and OW tell him that if he really wants you to accept marriage is over and he no longer wants you (and that its not just a temporary phase due to OW) then he has to do one last thing for you out of respect for your 22 years of marriage, ask him if he is so sure its over then he wont mind doing the follwing for your sake

Ask WS to contact Steve for one coaching session, ask him to do this without OW present (and even if she was Steve can handle her). If at the end of the session he is still absolutely sure that he is doing the right thing and no longer wants to be in a M with you then you will accept that and not get in his way anymore. you will set him free to make his own mistakes and you will start divorce proceedings to show him that you mean that.

worst case scenario he wants to stay with OW and you can move on. If not effective there is nothing to say you have to keep your promise to him but at the same time you are closer to getting an answer and just think of what position your putting OW in, she has to agree to your WS doing this in order to get rid of you, if he wont agree then there will be arguments between them etc.

what do you think?? is this even plausable solution??

Hey everyone

Really bad bad bad day. HUGE fight, got phisical so not feeling great, kids were out of the house thank goodness. Pictures shattered, glass everywhere adn me me pinned against the wall by my throat. Dont have the energy to update much more than this. Now finally alone at home and just broken.

BH

I'm so sorry.

Have your arguments turned physical before? Are you both physical?

Do you have a plan?

What do you expect will happen when you next see H?

ST no our arguments have NEVER ever turned physical before, we are not that type of couple, shouting is as far as it gets, and as far as it has ever gotten (D-day exeption when WS had to pin me down as I was trying to get out of the room via the window)

I dont have a plan but I no longer feel safe around him. Thats not to say he will hurt me but in the sense that it all got so out of control so fast it was scary.

WS is at work, i really wish i had a friend that can come over help me pack his stuff i just dont have the energy to do it, he wants to stay but its no longer safe for both of us to live here. Kids where at school/nursery this time. what happens if they are home?? DS 8 saw broken home furniture and gass on floor asking questions. I have faint fingermarks on my throat so not looking forward to questions from people.

BH28,

I'm so sorry. (((((BH))))I hope you are ok now.

Do you know what triggered it off?

It was triggered by alot of things

lack of sleep for both of us (been getting 3 hours a night for the past week)
tierdness i had been at work from 5am to 2pm and had a very busy day (work and housework taking its toll, DS 18 months being a total nightmare etc)

WS angry that i am asking for romance when according to him what he does already is enough (referring to suggestions that he already does given on MB)

Im angry because 2 days into filling LB nothing happened, not a kind word never mind a love note. I have been taking the lions share of housework so WS can concentrate on finding ways to fill LB only to be told he wont. Felt duped and miffed at having had to do everything around the house and kids while he has been sitting around effectively doing nothing.

Lots more to it but as i said im feeling really really down.

BH - I am so sorry. He seemed to be trying (at least a little) too. Wish there were something I could do from here. I will keep you in my prayers. Keep us posted on how you are doing

BH:

I'm sorry it was rough.

Your marriage didn't get this way overnight.

It's not going to "unget" this way overnight either.

Do what they tell us in Alanon and give yourself permission to start over. Start this evening anew--rewind, if you will. Allow yourselves the latitude to make mistakes.

Dear BH
Emergency counselling session with Steve needed! You need to tell him what happened. Physical fighting is a deal breaker, get out of that house or get him out of that house until the two of you can both diffuse this situation.

You are not being unreasonable with your "romantic" wants and needs, however; in the words of my WS " I can't love you completely until I love myself and I hate myself right now, for what I did to you and for what I am not."

As much as you want, he can not give. the goal is to figure out what can he give and chooses not to so that you can call him out on those things then he can begin to learn to give the rest. Really BH protect yourself and your children, what happened is absolutely not acceptable. You get out or get him out

I think at this point i need to clarify i never laid a finger on him so the fact he would go as far as he did is not acceptable. How much damage am i supposed to pit up with?

Bh, nobody is telling you to put up with a physical attack!

What was he saying at the time he attacked you? He must have said something, such as "nothing I do is good enough for you" or "you think this is all my fault or something. What was he saying?

while in i was in the middle of the "you gave OW so much more than he has given me and that by him not doing anything special with me i feel that he is effectivly saying she was worth and im not , biggest compliment he paid OW was to leave his family for her and I got a family picture off the wall and smashed it on the floor saying this is what you did to your family when you had A. I didn throw it at him or near him, it was on floor. He grabbed me by the arm pinned me to the wall and grabbed me by the throat and said "stop acting so psycotic". I didnt reataliate as was in shock, he took a while to let me go. but when he did i said i needed to get out of house to get cigarettes, took car keys with intention to get somewhere safe, couldnt thik of anywhere to go as didnt want anyone to know what had just happened. came back home. WS apologised on his knees, im too hurt, to think clearly, keep thinking about Xmas alone as kids would be better off with him as they go to his family. I guess im still in shock.

BH you don't put up with physcial attacks at all. Both of you had a choice. This escalated due to unresolved anger. Both of you take responsibility for that. with that being said, no no no no no no no physical abuse is acceptable. now, does that mean he is gone from the house forever? only you decide that, but until a safe environment can be secured in your home with WS you have to protect yourself and your children. So what he is on bended kness, he bent his arm first! physical attack even if it was used to subdue you, should never be accepted. no hand on your throat is ever necessary. Get Steve involved now. put protection in place for you and your children now, there can not be reconcilliation if one or both of you are dead.

im the outwardly fiery one, he holds his anger in so when he lets i out its more drastic, I can shout, rant and rave but I dont ever get the urge to attack as I simply dont feel the need to, i am able to express myself verbally, he cant on any level, he seamed frustrated that i didnt beleive what he had with her was rubbish etc but then he forgets he has told me every single detail of what they did together, so i seem to remember better than him what happened when and when i confront him with this information he seems to loose it. No i dont think of what happened as him Attacking me but its still a situation that could have escalated because when you loose control like that its unpredictible. Still glad kid were out, im very confused as to what to do, he has never done this before but once is still enogh to be a problem DS 8 seems to sense what happned and been really cuddly but im just numb. Coaching with Steve is in 2 days time but i dont want to talk to him about what happened, i just want to get back on the program. then there is a part of me that just feels so dejected i want to give up on the whole thing. Although i have only had 3 hours sleep last night i cant seem to settle and get some sleep now. Keep touching the sore bits on my neck to check that this really happened. feel so unsettled.

There is no good reason for him to even restrain you like that. So what if you throw things. He should have just stood back and let you do it, or just walk away. I think you do need to talk about this with Steve, you can't just sweep it under the rug like it never happened.

I may be out of line here, but it seems to me you both need to take a break. Even if you let him stay in the house, just take a few days to recover. Don't talk affair or marriage. Just take a time out. Maybe I'm wrong, others may have different advise - feel free to contradict me.

I have been reading yours and your husband's threads from the outset. While this may be quite controversial and I may take a tongue lashing from many here, these are my observations....

First, and let me make this perfectly clear, NO ONE SHOULD EVER TOUCH ANOTHER PERSON IN ANGER and you need to ask yourself whether this was a one time event or whether he will ever do this again? (If you suspect he is capable of physical violence toward you or your children ever again, you need to run, not walk, run to a safe house and stay away from him). I do not condone your husband's holding you by the throat against the wall. It must have been quite scary for you and I would bet he is appalled at his own behavior. That being said, what will we hear from his perspective with regard to what happened? The way you describe your behavior taking pictures of the wall and smashing them on the floor and some type of broken furniture does sound like the situation was quite a bit out of control. Did he feel you were throwing the picture at him (whether you actually were or not)? Was he afraid for his own safety and trying to bring the situation under control?

What I see in your situation is a husband who is trying very hard to recover your marriage - granted, he may not be doing it the way you would like, but he is trying. He is making the effort, which is a lot more than many here. There are those of us who wish our former spouses would have even tried half as much as our husband is. In you, I see a wife who keeps rubbing his affair in his face every day ad nauseum. You are so focused on his affair and the things he is NOT doing - not being romantic and doing all the window dressing to prove he loves you, instead of looking at what he is doing. First of all, there is no indication he is still in affair mode. Secondly, after learning, here, why it is so imperative if he wants to recover his marriage, he is looking for another job. The man comes home to you every day - he is sober and clean and brings home all his money to support the household. He helps you around the house, he is a father to his children.

Yes, your husband made a HUGE mistake that rocked the very foundation of your marriage, but he is trying to rebuild. He is counseling with Steve Harley - the best there is (I know because I counseled with Steve - notice I said "I" and not "we" because my XH refused). Recovery is not for whimps. It takes a long time. It is not going to happen over night simply because you've had one session with Steve. You need to be patient and you need to give it a chance. Most of all, though, you need to try as hard as possible not to keep rubbing his face in his A. Do you realize that by bringing it up every day, day in and day out, it is YOU who is keeping his A alive. YOU are reminding him of OW and keeping her fresh in his mind instead of allowing him to replace her stinky presence with beautiful, loving thoughts of you. I read your posts and think, "Good Lord, she has GOT to back off some because she is on over load."

My XH and I had multiple D-days and multiple false recoveries. He would call me and text me many times a day, send me e-cards and leave me little notes, he bought me a gorgeous 3 karat tennis bracelet, brought me flowers and took me out to candlelight dinners with champagne, he would romance me of the charts, tell me how beautiful I was and smart and successful - all the romantic window dressing your saying your FWH isn't giving you, only for me to discover he was telling OW every little thing I did wrong and what an awful wife and mother I was AND doing the same for her. (He even lied and told her I left our infant son unattended on the bed and he rolled off and was in hospital having all kinds of tests done to determine the damage "I" caused - never happened)! Not only that, he was an alcoholic. More often than not, my XH would leave for work at 7 a.m. and return at 9 or 10 at night, drunker than Cooter Brown. If he didn't pass out shortly after coming home, it would mean my being yelled at for sometimes hours. (I learned to turn all the lights out because then he couldn't see my face and I would sleep through his yelling). I would have things that were sentimental to me thrown and broken. I never saw his pay check and often found that he had taken parts of mine and spent it on all kinds of selfish pursuits. He spent $1000 of his severance pay from a job and spent it at a dancer bar. Our son was 2 months old when my XH started his A. He never once got up during the night with our son. I worked all day long, came home, took care of the house, the bills, our son, listen to him go off on me and then get up with our son multiple times a night. (Our son had colic/acid reflux until he was almost 3 and would wake every hour or so). My XH left us the first time to go back to the UK to live with OW when our son was 18 months old. He came back 6 months later for 6 months and, when son was 2 1/2, left again for 3 years. Both times that he left us, he used money from my bank account to pay his airfare. BH, that's what an active affair looks like. That's what a WH who is not trying looks like.

IF you truly and honestly can say this physical violence is a one time thing resulting from a situation that both of you contributed to that escalated out of control, slow down and look at what your FWH IS doing - he's trying to learn. That's the key. Give him time, he's a man... Leave things to Steve....don't try to do more than what Steve specifically instructs you to do.....don't try to do your husband's homework and don't let him do yours. Your trying to rush to the finish line of a Marathon when you've just crossed the starting line.....

Hey Brits thanks for the feedback its just what i needed to get some clarity of this situation. I doubt very much WS will volontarily discuss what happened today on his thread unless he reads mine then decides to comment etc..

Steve has pointed out that my WS has a great need for admiration from anyone who isnt in his family circle, this greately contributed to EA's on facebook, you can see this in his thread alot at the beginning, i dont read his thread now unless he wants to show me something specific so i dont know if thats still the case.

I didnt discuss what he did to me with him, i was just in shock. And didnt start feeling pain until the adrenaline of the situation died down, he wasnt apologising about incident when he was on his knees, he was apologising about A (and even then he was cracking jokes while i was in tears).

As far as the pictures and furniture go i only smashed one picture and it was no where near his direction, and while screaming "you had your fun, you got some exitement in your life, when is it going to be my turn to have fun, my life is just and endless rota of work, childcare and work, i have no life, i have had enough of housework and slaving away for nothing i cant take it anymore" i pushed over clothes airer full of laundry, i felt angry at the chores, i felt angry and trapped in a mondane exsistance with no sign of improvement.

As i said he has never done this before but he has lashed out at objects before, he never hits the kids because i beleive if you get to the hitting (however slight like a smack on bottom or hand) it is a sign that you are loosing control and me being a control freak i simply dont do it. He has learned his lesson on that one when DS now 8 was little and was talking to him when he was on pc, WS didnt warn him, didnt even tell him that he was unavaliable he just smacked his hand, i was upset because although it was slight smack he hadnt warned DS first, it gutted me how he just snapped this happened many years ago and has not happened since as i kicked off at him big time about it and he learned the boundries.

So in conclusion i think this is a one time thing if the situation at home was looking like it could improve even a little but unfortunately for me WS is getting wrong conforts from MB, he is thinking like most of you are (and i dont belame you for this) he is thinking he is atleast trying and is no where near as bad as the other WSes on here. This really doesent help me because the situation upsets me because its my situation and im living with it, if another member was having lesser difficulties than me then i wouldnt dream of saying to her what im here on here which is, "I understand your devastation but atleast your situation is not as bad as mine", this statement is unfair because we are all dealing with different things that have similar traits and no one should judge another persons situation as better or worse. its simply bad because each individual is having a hard time with dealing with their own devastation and there is no room for comparison in that.

I have stated many times i am no angel, i have never stated i am perfect in my behaviour in M but there is a reason for this,
as my thread says its been a year and during this year i have heard the following over and over again

I need to work on me before i can help you (this was at time of ws trying hypnotherapy)

I need to work on me before i can help us (this was at the time of his individual councelling)

I need time to work on me before i can help you (this is whenever WS wants to get out of housework)

I need you to back off A and then ill be able to help you (this was one of the reason i choose to numb my braincells for months on anti depressants and i did back off A big time)

none of the above prooved to be any help or lead WS to help me at any point so can u understand why asking me to stand outside in the cold again waiting for WS to supposedly try something else might really be pushing my limits.

I DO NOT expect overnight results however i do expect measurable progress in a way i understand it however small, if you refer to my post about his negativity you will see that. I have been neglected emotionally for a year so I dont feel that asking him to put some points in LB as a wicked request. I truly need it, I am scared of how my feelings for him are dying away and scared that by the time he catches up to the progress he is attempting to make my heart would be too shut off for it to matter if i knew i had time i would give it to him but i truly dont think i do, i have started looking at OMen and wondering about what life would be like with them etc, I would never cheat on WS but these thoughts are a bad sign none the less.

The reason why i throw A in his face daily is because he constaintly maintains hat he has out of sight out of mind attitude, this scares the hell out of me because i beleive that the day i dont bring A up is the day he will forget about all that has happened and jumps into another A. He also says that his memory is really bad so this forces me to hold the memory bank for him and its frustrating for me. Like his lack of care for OW, i care about what she is/does enogh for the both of us so he doesent have to.

another thing that i forgot to mention is that the application form for new job arrived on friday, have sat down with WS and helped him fill out as much forms but there was information that he needed to locate from his files, left him to do this, not done, on sunday attempted to get the forms ready for WS again, i got envelope stamps got info he needed off PC so all he had to do was transfer info onto form as has to be in his handwriting and post it. Form not done, uses excuse that he is working on M and had no time to do that so can you immagine my anger at having seen nothing concrete to supprt his claims so far, i have been at work sunday and today (monday) so really getting the feeling im being played hence the argument. WS says if i do all chores then he can have more time to work on M, if i get kids stuff ready for school the night before he can get them to school on time and work on M. If im giving all this are you all still saying that is should give a manipulative cheater the benefit of the doubt and wait as long as it takes for him to show progress? All i want is a sign however little that this is genuine and not done on MB to gain much sought after admiration or done at home to get away with leaving all the work to me.

Well well, just the response i expected from WS on his thread, the same old "admire me! ill tell you what happened but ill skim over the moderate bit ignore the bad lot".
Humm regarding him confronting OW, this was done to see if he would agree to it, as he is here tring to convince me OW meant nothing yet he peed all over his family for her, he is there telling me he doesent care about her yet he protected her mid fight so my natural reaction is if you cant give me security by showing me you care about me then why dont you do tell OW you never loved her, prove that you never loved her. I dont give a mokeys about OW this morning because it wasnt about her it was about him disgarding her for his family like he dumped us for her.

Other big issue that WS DOES NOT UNDERSTAND my pain, he never apologises ever for anything unless i tell him what to do, I TOLD HIM you can either apologise or just get the hell out during fight and guess what he apologised on demand, yeah thats supposed to make me feel better.


really H? go back and read your thread and get the heck away from mine go count how many excuses you made there. Biggest one that your using is translaed as "I PUT MY JOB ABOVE FAMILY".


Another convinently forgotten detail WS PLANNED ARRANGED AND BOOKED HOTEL where they had sex all of his own accord OW did not ask, hint, demand or even think of it herself, when asked about this mid fight WS admits it was all his idea and still maintains he cant remember why he did that. Yeah OW may try to convince me she planned the little outings (and even then thats a load of bull, remember that i found out about A because i looked up your googled history and it was full of you researching activities to do with OW) but he did all the thinking and planning for the BIG one, the one that involved him sleeping with someone he supposedly wasnt attracted to, really?? how dumb am i supposed to be? Why was his left out of his thead?? it was a big part of our fights and remembering it is what prompted me to freak out at the clthes airer the first time. second time was about the housework dull life.

really are you because the only reasong you are incorporating this on your thread is to look good, here are a few facts H that you seem to be forgetting about that have happened in the past, i wont go into detail but we both know what really happened, you havent text called or apologised for "attack" have you?? infact you didnt even check if i was ok after it, yeah thats a sign of someone ashamed!! you went to work and hid as usual then came home paniked about post and thught "these people think im a nice guy, i get my kick of admiration from them so got to save face, how can i edit situation to make it less grave and totally her fault" bingo well done hun you managed it but im not protecting your backside anymore if you wont be honest then i will do it for you.

Did you know that rage is contagious?

When will you start taking responsibility for your own behavior here? You're blame-shifting for inappropriate behavior and because it escalated to the legal definition of domestic violence you feel vindicated???

You started it; you were the flash point. He didn't strike you; he restrained you; considering the rage you were pumping into the situation, consider this could have gotten a lot worse; and acknowledge your hand in it.

My husband and I went through a domestic violence incident AFTER we'd been introduced to the Harleys.

My husband raged and raged all the way home from a visit to my parents; he said some very ugly things. I remember practically trying to put my fist through a car window - have no idea what I was thinking now - I look back on my actions and am embarrassed. My actions were entirely MY RESPONSIBILITY. My husband's actions were entirely his. But when things snapped and crossed the line, MY ACTIONS were the ones held under legal scrutiny.

We fanned each other's rage flames until those flames doubled back on us both and led to a six month separation.

By far, you are the angriest betrayed spouse I have seen here on MB. By far. And you are the most out of control with your words and your actions.

Your actions are very destructive. You do the very thing you accuse your husband of doing. Seeking validation for wrong actions - making excuses for your behavior. And you want to do some very personally destructive and maritally destructive things to have assurance of what? What assurance will you have once he destroys himself personally and professionally for you?

Get to a therapist today; don't walk - RUN.

Because the path you insist on taking is self-destructive and soul destructive.

I remember feeling dead for a week after our blow-up. It took months to put me back together. Rage is incredibly destructive to that internal energy that makes us do healthy things. Self-nurturing things.

Just for today, hold back on the affair catharsis behaviors - they're not doing you any good. Instead, have a day where you eat healthy, exercise and if you can't sleep, listen to instrumental calming music - classical like Bach, or new age like Kurt Bestor's Evening Angels or "Secret Garden".

Then start examining what you want out of life, personally. What kind of a person you want to be. Inventory who you are independent of him.

Life isn't fair. The balance of who does the heavy lifting in recovery after an affair is usually heaviest on the one least deserving of the burden. But if you don't do some heavy lifting, and instead keep piling on to your husband, YOU will not survive - not because I think he would hurt you, but because your actions are soul destroying. You will look back on this time and your lack of self-control and self-containment and lack of dignity with shame ten years from now. You will cringe at your own actions. Well - maybe you won't. But I guarantee if that if you can't cringe at what you are doing - if you can't feel shame, then perhaps you both should reconsider trying to recover the marriage. Because if you don't cringe ten years from now, you will still be in the grip of this hatred of him; which won't make for a healthy place for your children to grow up.

Being wounded - even mortally as you have been by this affair, does not give you license to behave less than yourself.

I hope you understand, I am trying to shine a light on a more dignified and healing path than the one you are on; but you have to see clearly that the path you have chosen so far in this recovery is dangerous and destructive for you and your children - all in a quest to destroy your husband.

Your husband, if he were a lessor man, would walk away from you right now, get a divorce and not look back. But he hasn't. He has picked up the impossible demands you have made on him; he has called and consulted with the best marriage recovery doc in the business and is doing more than he's used to doing. Picture a 350 pound man (emotionally), who's been on the couch all his married life, who all of a sudden, gets a clue and tries to run marathons. He's incapable of doing what you ask, so you scream and demean yourself by throwing things and destroying things - shocking your children when they see the carnage later.

You need time to get in recovery shape yourself. I wish I were there and could give you a hug and take you for a head-clearing walk and help you refocus on you; who you want to be, and how you want to behave, not because of him but because you are sick and tired of behaving "less than" because something yanks your chain. You want to determine your destiny rather than have it chosen for you.

I hope this makes sense.