Quite likely it was a horrible pack of lies. But then, that's what WS's do - they lie. They cheat. They deceive.

The question is though, having seen his message, do you still want that WS back in your life?

Hi All,

I am crying as I write this. Thank you so much for your support.

Thank you BH for your breakdown of his letter.

I am really going to think long and hard about my future.
We don't have legal separation in the UK and I don't think I could claim spousal support because I really don't need it.

I will post any more responses from either of them, obviously but for now I am going to do some Christmas shopping. At least I have one less present to think about this year!

Thanks, TM

IMO, the only way he will decide he wants you, is if you don't want him.

Go ahead and separate. Take the steps. I think you'll be surprised, that suddenly you're a lot more attractive.

You can always call off the separation. But if you don't show him you love and respect yourself, why would he?

My timeline I am giving myself is the end of January. I will re-assess the situation then and if I still feel like I do today, then I will start proceedings.

Just remember the WS(and the OW) keep telling themselves these types of lies and do the marital rewrite to feel justified in the A. They have to do this to feel better about what they are doing.

Even tho you know that email was rubbish, it still must have really hurt. (((((TM))))))

Fascinating, this one. The fact here is that this one appears to me that it not only was not written by your WS, but indeed had no male voice involved. Furthermore, it does appear to have at least two female voices involved. Your OW appears to have asked a friend for help. Look at her emails in your first example in the first post you made in this thread, then look at this one. They are not the same voice - but in some cases the first one does "bleed" into this one. She asked someone to help her here, someone she considers "smarter", because she doesn't want to mess up his divorce proceedings with her injecting the email as his words.

He IS aware of what she has done. I'm not so sure he will be happy when he actually reads it, however, given his most recent interaction with you, from what you posted directly before this email cropped up. My best analysis is that this email is a direct shot at you BECAUSE HE TOLD HER WHAT YOU AND HE TALKED ABOUT. She had to fire back at you, because you are threatening their relationship. He is fence-sitting, and she sees it.

In the very first email she sent you, she spoke of the fact that he spends all of his time with her......that spoke volumes to me. Not because of the idea that he spends time with her - but because he HAS TO. She makes it that way because she does not trust him - she knows she MUST be with him in his spare time, to keep him close, because he is NOT "with" her in the sense that he needs to be...he is already "wandering". She senses this. Her email to you spoke to that loudly, and without going into an analysis you can be sure that this is likely true. She is not secure in her relationship with him. There is not a great deal of trust there, so she speaks loud and long about that "trust" in order to make herself believe that there actually IS trust there.

-what OW wishes to believe, she says louder and more often
-- OW's style of writing in her emails tends to reveal this about her

Now, to a quick analysis of what she and her friend have written to you. IF your WS had anything to do with this, it would absolutely shock me.





This is WS. I write this "without prejudice" to my legal position in the eventual divorce proceedings.
No man about to divorce would do this in his right mind. Not one.
I�m sending this in response to the e-mail that you may or may not have received this morning from my ex. IF this was your WS, he would have perfect knowledge of his audience. He would address it to the people he absolutely wanted to know this information, and not the entire general population, as this paragraph does. This paragraph is a wide-array address, with the intent to broadly scatter the damage.

I apologise to everyone being involved in a matter between me and my psychotic ex. NOT an apology, but an opening volley against you. Also, an absolutely opposite statement against what it purports to be: the statement notes it is a matter between a man and wife, yet addressed broadly to a huge number of people. Were it truly what it is stated to be, it would not be publshed as it is.

Yes, I was with her 22 years but during this time she treated me and my family badly. That�s why I left her. IF the author were the WS, this would not be stated as simply. A single-purposed "I left because she treated me badly" is notably a simple reason at this juncture in the relationship for leaving. Anyone involved in the relationship would KNOW this - that the reasons are much more complicated, more difficult to state, and certainly not identifiable as ONE SIMPLE REASON.

As an error of judgment on my part, I agreed to go on holiday a while back with her as an school exam treat for her niece. This was promised a year ago in 2007 and I try to always keep promises. This really interests me. A statement made in defense of the WS, right here in the middle of the body of the letter. Right here... Third thought.....THIRD......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm And I wonder why it is RIGHT HERE. Why would this be right here? I mean, who really cares why he went, what the reasoning was....really? Except...his "girlfriend" and his WIFE? I did not have a great time. Is this what they are fighting about? Hmmmmmm. I wonder if she is worried about what kind of time he had on that trip?

OW and I are in love and BS is trying to destroy this. Gee. She has at least HALF of this RIGHT.

I am a cheater and I treated WS badly. At least the author of the letter has this right. Also, the author of the letter is guilty of this statement, on her own behalf. And, I wonder why this is here, right here. A very odd change of tune. It is like someone stepped in right here and said, "wait, we have to make this letter about - him - so that it looks right."

I have apologised. BUT she treated me equally as bad over 22 years and she admits that. We have grown apart for last 10 years well before I met OW. When I left BS the intention was to set her free to find someone better than me DO YOU SEE THAT WORD 'BUT' IN THERE????? Doesn't that take the apology away? "I said I was sorry BUT SHE WAS BAD TOO." Sort of cancels the whole thing out, doesn't it. Makes it just not count, the bad thing I did, because she was bad too, so don't look at me...she is a terrible person...look at her....OH, and BESIDES, I actually LEFT HER so SHE COULD BE HAPPY. Aren't I the beneficent one?

The paragraph here is again defensive of the WS, but in a very odd way. The letter very quickly turned - again - back to stabbing the BS. They lost track very quickly, didn't they?

She chooses however to be vindictive and send nasty e-mails. This is an example of the nastiness she has shown my dear brother and wife. This nastiness is why we broke up not because of OW. OW is completely innocent in this. Some interesting words here. "my DEAR brother" brings my eye there. This couches the brother as some sort of extremely innocent bystander in the situation, as someone on a pedestal. Odd phrasing for a man to use, ESPECIALLY about ANOTHER MAN. Just very odd. Secondly, the extreme "completely innocent" for the standing of the OW. This is something people use for themselves, not generally for others - especially those complicit in a crime with them, although in the case of affairs we do see it. In this case, however, the stench of OW is too strong over this, and I just smell OW standing at least over the keyboard on this one. IF the WS wrote this, OW was THERE.

BS knows this and can't acknowledge that we are over and its time to move on.

Again I am sorry for involving everyone An oddly abrupt ending. This feels interrupted. Or....caught?

WS

The other thought that comes to mind on the previous letter -

IF, AND I AM SAYING IF IF IF IF

the WS wrote that email, the OW dictated it.

Period.

And the ending?

He just gave up. That would be the ONLY WAY it would make any sense to me. He gave up, and emailed it....without anything.

And that last line would make sense in that regard.


He really would be sorry for involving everyone.

That would possibly make sense for two voices. For one being smarter. For the strange mix of sentences.

And for the VERY ODD ENDING.

IF this is the case, my advice?


Go right now to Plan B. Go fast, go very very very dark, and let this affair go right off the deep end. Because if this woman is as controlling as to have him write down exactly what she wants him to say in an email like this, then the relationship will NOT LAST LONG. If he is the kind of guy who runs off and cheats, has a wandering eye, then he will not last under the eyes of a woman who has to control his every single move.

It will not take long before he breaks the chains.


Just be very sure you want him back. Be sure he has a plan to be faithful.


SB

Oher thought.. update FB status saying "lovely letter LOL thanks for dictating it to WS he would never have thought of those things all on his own lol"

I guarantee ws will ring you within 5 mins of her reading your status update! or atleast she will fight with him about ringing you. Lets see him say those things to you directly!! my guess is he wont be able too as not his own though.

Even better if you manage to ignore his call for as long as possible, lets see WS squirm until he can "set you straight" and how many days of her whining about this will he be able to tollerate.

I agree w/ Schoolbus. I think Plan B sooner rather than later. OW sounds like a controlling beyottch and the sooner you are out of the picture fulfilling ENs, the sooner the entire affair will implode.

Just wanted to say that I got the same sense about this OW as Schoolbus did. She went out of her way not only to mention the time they spend together, but also how she "tries" to get him to go out w/o her. She is trying to reassure herself that he will not stray w/ her. And she will do everything she can to keep him on a short leash.

But, your WH isn't the type of man who will be kept under the thumb of a woman...at least not for long.

I don't think you ought to wait in limbo to decide to file. I think you ought to go to Plan B. WH may have enjoyed his A's, but he always had you meeting his ENs and had the comfort of knowing you were at home waiting for him when he was finished w/ these trashy women. If you write him a PBL and then go very dark, he will be shocked. Being w/ OW 24/7 w/o a TM fix will get very old very quickly.

Plan B is perfect for you b/c it will remove yourself from all the drama and PAIN. It will give you a chance to really think through things, and figure out what you want.

Thank you Marshmallow,

I have a couple of more cards to play on this. I am reluctant to say more at this stage because WS knows of MB and whilst I don't think he has the time or inclination to read here, you never know.

Welcome back Schoolbus!

Thank you for your interpretation. I have a feeling that OW asked/told WS to write the e-mail and WS may then have insisted on apology e-mail to me. The fact that he writes "this is WS", suggests that he has used OW FB login, which isn't necessary. Maybe he was at work and he agreed to it being sent by her but had minimal input himself.

The "without prejudice" phrase, I feel was written by WS. He's weird like that. At the start of all this, before MB, I typed up a document which I stated was not legally binding. It was to be for myself only to say that I had his permission to date if I wanted to because the status of our marriage was "separated". WS refused to sign it because he didn't know if it would be legal.

WS would also completely understand the significance of the BUT after the apology so it could have been deliberate by him, thinking no-one else would notice.

You are right about the use of "dear brother". That is not him at all. It's funny, I would never have spotted that if you hadn't pointed it out.

She is very domineering. I saw that trait in her straight off. And she is obviously quite aggressive. WS is very non-confrontational and may not like all the drama that comes with her.

TM

Thanks, Marshmallow.

No, WS was never under the thumb with me. We were our own people and that's probably why we lasted so long.

I honestly don't know what EN's I could be meeting for him these past 10 months. I am definately going to step back from things. You are right. I need a break from all the drama. However, Steve said Plan B would not work so I am just going to lie low for a while and then throw him some TM serenity now and then, when I feel like doing it so that he doesn't forget what he is leaving behind.

TM

Your sister and Melody Lane are both right.

Exposure has brought them closer together, in the same way as if you toppled two buildings towards each other, and they caught, holding each other up. There they are, tipped closer together than ever, but the foundation is shattered.

Since they're watching your FB, I think it's fine to put messages on there, but never blatant ones. Happy, upbeat, about YOU, and never a hint of them. Just YOU YOU YOU and all the happy, fun things you're doing.

However, I do think it would be fine to mark off any days important to the M, such as anniversaries or other important dates. Still in an upbeat way, though. "Can't believe it's been X number of years now since [whatever] happened - wow! Time sure flies..."

My vote would be for Plan B too, but will concede myself trumped by Steve.

And Schoolbus hits another one out of the park!!!!!!!!!

Hey TM thought i would copy this reply i gave from my thread into yours so everyone can catch up.


Thanks for clarifying things TM, i dont know why i got the impression that you dont want to live in USA. My mistake.

how about this fair resolution.

Contact WS by email tell him that you were hurt by the email that was sent to by him and OW tell him that if he really wants you to accept marriage is over and he no longer wants you (and that its not just a temporary phase due to OW) then he has to do one last thing for you out of respect for your 22 years of marriage, ask him if he is so sure its over then he wont mind doing the follwing for your sake

Ask WS to contact Steve for one coaching session, ask him to do this without OW present (and even if she was Steve can handle her). If at the end of the session he is still absolutely sure that he is doing the right thing and no longer wants to be in a M with you then you will accept that and not get in his way anymore. you will set him free to make his own mistakes and you will start divorce proceedings to show him that you mean that.

worst case scenario he wants to stay with OW and you can move on. If not effective there is nothing to say you have to keep your promise to him but at the same time you are closer to getting an answer and just think of what position your putting OW in, she has to agree to your WS doing this in order to get rid of you, if he wont agree then there will be arguments between them etc.

what do you think?? is this even plausable solution??

Hi Neak,

Thanks for the building analogy. This makes perfect sense. If OW has less friends willing to go out with them as a couple, they may be forced to spend more time just the two of them. WS may then get bored with OW because I think a strong draw to her is the RC need that is met by her friends. WS and OW don't seem to have a great deal in common.

I don't know if they are looking at my FB status. I never put anything on there about me. However, I do change my Yahoo status every day, more than once, depending upon what I am doing.

I think a cloudy Plan B may be the way to go for me.

Hi BH,

Yes, I really like this idea. WS did speak to Steve back in July but he wasn't impressed. He said he thought we were a cult and that it was a load of rubbish.

Three months later WS conceded that he did think MB concepts work, if both parties believed it would. For me, this was a big step in WS thinking and so a session with Steve may be more productive now, than it was before.

Thanks,

TM

BH, while your idea might work in some cases, in this one where the A is already so doomed, time is the best weapon after exposure. To hang it all on one phone call to Steve rushes the timeline a bit, when if she only hangs on a while longer, this is likely to end on its own.

The main key here is protecting her, and strategizing how to do that while still working within SH's recommendations about Plan B.

TM, it might be time to start changing your status on FB once in a while. It makes you appear active and happenin'.

Neak i agree totally that the key for TM is protecting herself, but how long does she wait for WS to wake up? this latest OW is one at the end of a string of OWomen, the relationship WILL go to pot eventually but does that really help TM?? Do you guys really think that the only problem here is this particular OW?? Ws started Wayward thinking way before this OW appeared on the scene, he is learning that relationships are disposible and i have no doubt that he will jump from this OW into onother A and then again another, is TM expected to put her heart on hold in the hope that this man wakes up without any help? the more OW he goes through the less likely he is to come back or am i wrong on this point and the more OW he sees the more likely he will want the peace and quiet he had at home. But then he wont be getting that if he comes home will he, in order to move on for both their sakes he will need to work hard on M. As far as i am concerned Steve is the expert on A and good at dealing with WSes so how can you we appear not to trust him and his years of experience. Im speacking as someone who is currently trusting the future of her M with Steve although my situation is less complicated i am still putting my hopes in the hands of someone who is an expert and accept if he cant fix it there is no way forward for my sake or my familys. Call me stupid if you want to but either way i will have a way forward by a set time and thats is in my book protecting myself.

Wayward behaviour aside I truly feel sorry for this man, i really do, he is stuck in a situation he knows is not good for him yet hasnt got a visible lifeline that he can see. Go back to W and work his nuts off at making up for what he did (and im not saying for one moment thats what TM has said to him its the reality facing him and he is aware of this), go at it alone and have to face his problems on his own, or bury his head in the sand by frittering his time between meaningless women? tough choice. One good conversation can wake someone up and if anyone can do it, it is the Harly family.