Hi Neak,

I am really loving your optimism re the affair. Maybe a request for a call to Steve could be done in January if there is no progress by then.

Yes, you are right. OW uses FB a lot and her insecurity may make her curious as to what I am up to. Only WS can see my Yahoo status. I will put something hip and happening up there now.

Thanks,

TM

How long does she wait? A while longer won't hurt, especially since she is getting professional counseling from SH. An ultimatum, given at a point where she is strong enough to hold out a while longer, could end up doing more harm than good.

TM isn't dealing with your garden-variety affair here...it's much more serious than that. Busting up the A is the easiest part, and I'm very confident she will get that far.

What is going to be hard is in thinking about R, how high to set the bar, him addressing his serial cheating issues before she even considers taking him back, and whether she will want the man he becomes when the A is over.

Serial adultery is so much more difficult to overcome, and the odds aren't as overwhelming favorable, even with MB methods. However it still happens, so I think there is sufficient reason for TM to hold out hope of R for as long as she wants to. As long as she protects herself from his venom, that can be a long time without excessive damage to her.

Honestly, you sound defensive, though I can hear the pain and frustration underlying that. I'm not intending any criticism of you in what I've said, and certainly would not imply that you are stupid. Nor am I implying any distrust of Steve - rather I am deferring what would be my usual advice in a situation like this, to what he has recommended. I've felt the same feelings of pain and desperation, and understand why you feel the way you do.

It's not a lack of trust in Steve that makes me reluctant to pin everything on a single counseling session with him. Rather, for that to work, the WS has to be in exactly the right place, where at least a small part of them might be receptive. To take a WS still totally in the throes of the A, what is left of their brain flooded with evil dopamines, and give them once chance to talk to SH and start the process of R or you proceed with divorce, is to invite failure. That isn't any reflection on Steve, but just the nature of affairs. Once in a while it might work, but IMO is usually too chancy.

If the A is still going on at a time when TM has exhausted nearly all hope, and her LB is running dry, that could be a time to consider it. For now, I think she can afford the luxury of being patient, at SH's advice.

I don't know anything about your sitch, but I do agree that SH represents your best chance of saving your M. MB is such a Godsend, and we are all blessed to be here.

{{{{{{{{TM & BH}}}}}}}}}} God is working for you.

I think this is good to have for a goal. Be sure you give yourself permission to move your timetable up if you need to, or stretch it out a little (but not much) if it seems to be called for.

How well I remember planning my Plan B for a particular day, pacing myself for that, and then a day or two short snapped and knew I couldn't even have one more nice interaction with him. (Pretty sure him having to pry my fingers off his neck would count as a Love Buster.) Boy did I have to hustle, but my PB was ready that evening. Whew!

Re-evaluate as often as you need to, but that sounds good.

Hi Neak and BH28,

I really appreciate both your inputs in my situation and can't express enough how everyone's support at MB this week has really carried me through.

I just want to say one thing regarding WS before I am off to bed. WS has had a lot of ONSs but this is the first EA. I am so sure of this because of his behaviour change. It was so noticable. Plus there was no real opportunity for a full blown EA/PA in the UK. So I think breaking up this affair may make him go out on the pull again but may not lead to another OW. As soon as he breaks up with OW, I will probably call Steve again for advice.

G'night.
TM

If he's not reading here. OW is.

Count on it.

Very glad to hear SH is coaching you.

This advice is spot, and I don't mean the dog, SPOT ON. <<SB and Neak, MM and Brute>>

TM, you only need to decide about how high the bar should be set for your WH return. If you want that at all.

This A is not going to last. OW is an childish control freak, and your WH will not tolerate forever.

Let him spend the holidays with this AP. DARK PB. This A will not last, he will come sniffing around. bah humbug!

Do a dark, dark -- DARK PB.

Post FB and YAHOO every day about new things you are learning and doing. How you are making new traditions,(yoga? tofu turkey?) and keeping strong hold on cherished ones.

Everything that makes you special, kick it up a notch. I'd be like Martha Stewart on crack!
In the end, it can only lead to positive outcomes for you.

If you are not doing new things,--find some.

Thanks for the encouragement, Barbiecat

I am leading a very active life at the moment. I've done a few new things that I didn't when WS was around. And keeping up with all the old ones too. The silly thing is that we are so alike, I know that WS would enjoy them too. For example, I went to a poker tournament organised by the people from work. I read up on the strategy and came away with an 80% return! WS really enjoys poker because of the reading people side of it and frequently goes to Las Vegas with OW. Grrr.

I've also been to concerts by bands that WS and I both like. And the movies I see are all WS taste as well. We used to love going to the movies but I know he doesn't go any more. He says that there are other things to do. I've also hooked up with old friends of both of ours and now see them regularly for dancing or just pub quizes etc. I let him know all that I am doing.

I am exhausted! This is why it is so frustrating for me because I know that we are quite possibly the most compatible couple on earth. He's not into the yoga and I'm not so much into the kick boxing (although we did use to spar/train together and I enjoyed the quality time with him) but aside from that, we liked all the same things.

Sigh! Now I am reminiscing. I must get back to work.

TM

((TM))
I think you'll definitely need Plan B if you are to preserve any love of WS. He's being a real turd right now.
So, regarding "dear brother and his family," what's the situation there? Are they supportive of his A? And the rest of his family? Do they know they're "vouching" for his A right now?

Unfortunately, most people on WS side of the family and friends have validated his choices by meeting with OW and going out with them as a couple. My one consolation in all this is that if WS decides not to reconcile, at least I won't have to deal with his ridiculous brothers and SILs any more.

TM

P.S. Thanks for the hugs.

TM,

You might want to consider changing the title of this thread, and even your nic. You don't want to make it easy for either of them to find this thread, provided they haven't already.

TM,
Glad that Schoolbus stopped by and interpreted WS email. When I got emails from XH, I never realized what influence that OW had till schoolbus showed me line by line what OW wrote versus XH.

Now I can tell when OW makes her mark on most of the correspondence.

I agree with the others. Go very very dark Plan B. dark dark dark. It will keep you safe and probably make them both crazy wondering where you went!

Hi hope3343,

Yes, I am very grateful for Schoolbus's input on my thread. What she wrote made a lot of sense.

I am reluctant to go dark Plan B because it goes against the advice Steve gave me. However, I feel that backing off a little may get some results, just from WS past actions.

For example, last Monday he slammed the phone down saying he didn't know if he was going to speak to me again. By Thursday he was phoning me and we spoke Friday. He said he was concerned for me because I hadn't been online or answering my phone but he wanted to know a) how I chose the original 3 people - it really intrigues him; b) whether I am going to e-mail more and c) who I am going out with.

Yesterday, I IM'd him to ask advice on a situation with my niece. He replied promptly and we went back and forth a bit. This is what I don't understand. If I had a "psychotic ex" that I wanted to finish with, I wouldn't be phoning them and I would definately be ignoring their IM's. And this is why I think Steve is correct in saying that I have to keep the connection with WS because he seems unwilling to let go as well.

How long ago did Steve tell you that? Did he tell you how long to stay that way?

He told me at the end of September.
Steve was always very concerned that I was ok and that I have a support network. He said I should stay that way as long as I am strong enough to handle it.

Ok, I think that you were all right when you said that I didn't get her parents. I definately got her birth mother because WS told me.

But I was reading her FB comments regarding her adopted mother having an operation and someone commented give my regards to M, which is not the first name of either person that I contacted. So I did an Intellius search on OW name and it came back with different results than before, this time with a woman M and OW son as relatives so I'm thinking that M is her adopted mother.

Now,I said I wasn't planning to e-mail any more but I have a phone number. This woman is elderly and has just had an operation (albeit on her shoulder) so I don't want to say anything which will greatly upset her.

I will need to establish that I am talking to the right person but then I would just like to say a couple of sentences to summarise the situation in a way which won't be too distressing for her. Also, I need her to believe me and not her daughter, which will be a hard task.

Can anyone give me some phrases that will help me get my message across?

Thanks,

TM

How about...
"Since you adopted *scag* I'm guessing you hoped to show her much love and model good moral behavior. I just wanted to let you know that your daughter is now a homewrecker, and has been sleeping with my H. We have been together 22 years, and she has shown no respect for marital vows. I'm reaching out to you because I hope she respects your opinion and I'm hoping you'll agree that adultery is a sin."
And don't worry about the "elderly" and "operation" thing.

Ha ha - I actually saw a photo of her on "scag"'s Myspace page. She looked like she was on her last legs.

Ha ha ha,...Ima said "turd"....Ha ha ha :teef:


Okay, sorry, but that just made me laugh....

Isn't it great that we have retained our senses of humour in all this?

TM,

Look at it from this perspective : If my daughter was committing adultery I would WANT to know - I would be GRATEFUL that someone told me so that I could do everything in my power to SAVE my daugther from herself! I would never want her to be a homewrecker! Be assumptive with this...Approach it from a standpoint of knowing that a parent wants the best for their child - let the woman feel like you are on her side - that you know she cares deeply for her daughter and wouldn't want her on such a destructive path...Treat her like your ally...I think that would be the most fruitful approach...

Mrs. W