Bh,

Yup, that's ME!!!.... ....yep I HATED every moment of snooping. Exposure wasn't the problem, snooping was.....

Well since you read my thread, you know I feel your pain and desire to make her life miserable. I too was obsessed in my thinking. You know what though, every time I got the chance to do something or say something ( like on C-day) I always went back and thought of something better I could have said or done. Heck, on Cday I had the chance to beat the crappola outta COW. She even tried to egg me into it, and you know what? I didn't do it. And I'm glad because she will ALWAYS know that in the end I held my grace and dignity in my own hands. And that makes me a better person today......

Now look, your WH knows he's in a no-win situation with this party. No matter what he says or does that night, you will second guess his actions. You are setting him up for failure. And since he is trying to do the MB methods, you need to support him anyway you can.....and that means NO CONTACT. I truly urge you to stop insisiting on going to this party. Keep your babysitter, get all dolled up and let your H give you a night to remember instead.....one that doesn't include OW.

I'll be back later to talk about your attitude and "stinkin thinking" on yourself.......(if you glean anything about my thread, know that my journey to LOVE myself was the hardest of all......)

not2fun

Whoa, not to T/J, but how did my name come up?

BrutallyHonest, I'm just catching up on your thread. I don't know what to say about the party, but I just wanted to let you know I understand how you feel. I've been dreaming about cracking open some eggs and leaving them in her mailbox when she's at work, posting a big sign saying "Fugly Skank", going to her work and confronting her there, etc etc, all the ways I can possibly get revenge on her. I'm just filled with hate for her and I want to act on it so bad. Yet I know if I do I will just lower myself to her level... dilemma, dilemma

I also feel anger towards my H because my sitch is, he actually had two OWs, not one. So I will just refer to them as OW1 (the EA/PA one) and OW2 (EA only). With OW2, he was texting her for about two years, and going over her condo quite often, and eating out with her. Things he should have been doing with me but NOT Like you, I literally begged him to take me out, do things with me, etc etc etc and he just either put it off or didn't want to do it. With OW1 he initiated/planned most of their activities together.

Per my discussion with Steve, I have not asked him any "why" questions related to this but it burns away at me. Why them? Why not me? Why wasn't I WORTH IT??? WHY WERE THEY WORTH IT? I'm like worth 1,000x of them combined, you know??

Anyway, sorry if I totally went off point or whatever, but I really do admire you (SusieQ, my sister, forwarded me your FB exposure email and I literally like, whoaaa... Now I wish mine had been more like that!) and reading some of your posts struck a chord with me.

Bh and NotS,

I too had those same thoughts. god knows how I thought for MONTHS those same things....."why hadn't I received those kinds of love letters?"...."why wasn't I good enough to hear how important I was to him?"......"why had I received that jewerly?"......"why her and not me?".....

The thing is it really didn't have anything to do with me. The affair wasn't about me. It was about him and his sense of entitlement, selfishness and lack of boundaries and protection. It was all about how she made him feel. And really when it comes down to it, when you think how they sell their souls to do those things in order to get the fix, it's really quite sad. This is why Steve is wanting your H's to work on them.....

Which is really hard for you all this point. Your ENs have been neglected for so long, your Takers are running rampant. And rightly so......BUT you do need to keep that Taker reigned in because no good Recovered marriage on here made it with their Taker in charge.....

Now, it's even harder for the both of you since your WH's are still I'm contact due to work. I truly wish I had some advice on how to handle that. It was a boundary I firmly put into place, BUT my circumstances were different than yours. And true recovery cannot start until NC is in place. I do know that a member here, Schoolbus, went thought her H working with OW for 8 months following the affair, yet they recovered. You might want to look up her old threads.

Lastly, I want to let you know that these feelings won't last forever. It's been a year since the last contact with COW. Those feelings of revenge and intense hatred are gone. I firmly believe NC and time have a lot to do with that. Also, throw in my acceptance that the affair wasn't about me and that I know now what I do deserve and what I capable of enduring and nobody can take that from me.....not H and certainly not COW or any other OW for that matter.

(((((Bh and NotS))))))......the ride is bumpy girls, but some days it is worth it.....

Not2fun

Can someone repost her exposure email? I would love to see it!!

Hi Melody just a quick reply that i never posted my exposure email, i have emailed it to those interested when they contacted me at my below email address, the reason being is that 1) Its too graphic to post on here, 2)It has vindictive remarks taht i wouldnt want BS get influenced by when sending their exposure eamils. I just dont want it on my thread, i have it stored on my PC for future reasons but having it on here it would remind me of it too much so happy to eamil it to those interested in the sake of learning etc

BH, would you mind sending it to me at ohmelodylane@aol.com?

thanks!

Not2 and NotS,
Glad you guys get what im saying and im so sorry you feel that way because it does hurt, we do the bulk of care and love for WS's and we get to deal with the aftermath while COWs walk away with the pleasures. Not Fair!!

I dont know if you read my earlyer threads about my friend JJ the one sorting out job for WS, after A number 4 she still did plan A and stuck at her marriage for a while but one day when the storm had passed her WS went over to one of our mutual friends houses (refer to as AA) and while there bought Pizza delivery, our mutual friend is a very nice girl and therefore nothing ontoward was going on but JJ's WS was grwoing attached to her so when he came home JJ asked him what he had been up to, he told her went to AA's house and bought pizza delivery, JJ asked him why dont you ever do that with me and her WS replyed "because she deserves it and you dont" that was it, that was the straw that broke the camels back, that was the day their marriage ended, she kicked him out and never looked back. he is now literally a bum on the streets, so this leads me to think that the feelings we are having WHY her not me are somewhat importaint for WS to address.
I feel that this is an area where we build huge resentment for WS's so how do we deal with that??

You say that one way is to understand tha A is not about us well that hurts in its own way, why wasnt it about us?? (for example why didnt affair happen because while we were busy with work childcare etc WSs missed us so much they looked for care elswere). Beleiving that the A is not about us is killing me. I wish it was about me then i can do something to stop it happening again but this way i have to trust a person who totally betrayed and lied to me to do the work to stop it happenign again, thats just a difficult position to be in..

OK ML sent

BH - while your WH is working his way into recovery, you will also have to work on your personal recovery.

I can't stop OW from "collecting" relationships with other women's husbands. First of all, that would make my world revolve around her, and frankly, in the big picture scheme of things, she just isn't that significant.

But for a time I couldn't let go, and she was always on my mind, how she'd sneak into "recovery" meetings online stalking my husband - to see if she could keep up on what he was doing and thinking... sick! How she'd quote scripture and tell me that I was following an "uninspired" path to not "reconcile" the friendship with her we once had. I let her abuse me through making her my focus.

So you want to go to a party, to make a statement. But there's the statement you want to convey, and the statement that is reality.

You can't show up to any place YOU KNOW she will be without making this piece of gum under your shoe "significant".

Scrape her off; you don't have to go to a company party where you will be "twitching" with thoughts of vengeance and NOT having fun - instead, let that husband of yours attempting to recover, show you a good time that he has planned out far away from that atmosphere. These are people he's not going to be working with anymore anyway. And she has a nice addendum to her employment file, and her new boss is watching her. You've done all the damage you can, and maintain your dignity.

So think of it this way - she's stolen so much from you. But from this moment on, any attention or thought or action you do is voluntarily giving this piece of worthless carp your golden time and stealing from yourself and your own personal recovery.

That's why you SHOULD NOT GO to the party!

There is not one good outcome possible by going. Not one. Your personal gratification will not be realized because she's still significant to you. You have to find your indifferent place for her. The same attachment you have to what you flush down the toilet - no hatred, no love.

KylaA

cant argue with you cause have nothing left to say that can actually justify me going to the party, its still a fantasy and the reasons are still many that compel me to go but as you have pointed out I cant take her on by myself, if the people who emailed me had the backbone then we could have easely crushed her but they simply choose to tell me about it and get me to do their work for them. I have to beleive what comes round goes around so Karma might just catch up with her.
Its one thing her sleeping with my WS but its another for her to hurt the hell out me with her detailed information emails above, I wasnt being nasty to her and at that point i beleived WS was fully responsible for hurting her and wanted to help her out but then to go find out what she is crushed me, she made a fool of me and thats something unsettled between me and her and i guess i got to stop regretting what i didnt do to her and concentrate on what i actually did. ill see if that approach works.

On a separate note would love advice comments on things i have made a note to speak to Steve about on wednesdays appointment. Basically WS decided that for the next 3 days he needs to concentrate on filling LB back up. Steve set WS task to sit me down and tell me why he had A, Steve said i cant do his job with WS and have to stop going into therapist mode with WS just listen to what WS had to say. So here is what happened when WS attempted task set by steve. WS sat me down and literally said "Steve told me i had A because....." WTF?? Steve told you why u had A?? NOPE TRY AGAIN "Steve helped me realise why i had affair...." even "Steve told me this is why i had A and it got me thinking and i agree..." would have been acceptable but what he said was just arghhhhh

so i had a choice, be therapist and explain to WS that if he is going to start like that there is no hope in hell im gonna beleive he actually realises why he had A and that what Steve actually said to him was this is why people have affair go think about it come up with how you agree with that and tell your BS in a way that helps her understand its not her fault etc.

Or go through path 2 wich basically involves shutting up and just telling Steve what happened so he can sort it out.

I choose the inbetween, told WS about the fact he does not convince me one bit that he is genuine when he says he now understands why he had A and then made notes to speack to Steve direcly about regarding situation, cannot progress with the WHY task until we speack to steve so for now WS goning to concentrate efforts on LB filling. I think this is sensible as he cant try to do the WHY thing again just yet as to obvious he is just following what i told him rather than thinking on his own.

Below are the notes for your consideration too.

General questions and comments for Steve

1) I cant get understanding of how WS can get into the frame of mind of "out of sight out of mind" thing that he does. Why wasnt the love and care i had given him during M not a factor in his thoughts when he had A. Up until this day WS confirms he never once thought about me or kids while with OW, he explains it as when he was here he thought about us and never thought about her, when he was with her he only thought about her. Is this even possible??

2) Ws talked himself out of our marriage, he gave up on us without a single little ounce of fight in him before and during A. If he is so great at talking himself out of things why did he not manage to talk himself out of A and i had to bust him before he broke it off (lets face it the A wasnt exavly going well for them now was it. Sex- not good, communication- not good, love - not there, u get my drift if you ever read NC letter from WS to OW posted on his thread)

3)I know I criticise WS alot on here but with him i try to encourage progress and hold onto every little baby step he makes in the right direction. Getting frustrated with WS negativity about his own progress, like for example the other day while i was at work he was trying to figure out how OW managed to make him feel comfortable enough around her in order for him to let his guard down around her (he was doing this in order to aid him set boundries to stop a happening agin). He came up with something that even I hadnt considered or thought about much (basically OW introduces WS to her 3 year old girl giving WS false sense of being special and meaning somethign to her, now he sees it as her using her little girl to get him to drop his guard because she knew he is a father and his kids mattered to him) and this is how he behaved when i got home

Me- hey hun what have you been up to today
WS- didnt do any major work on M because i had housework, DS doctors appointment today etc
Me- dont worry I know you have had alot on today i want asking about M specifically.
(WS grabbing his M notebook)
Me- ok tell me what you thought about then
WS- as i said its not great, not enough ....
ME- doesent matter just get it over with and tell me
WS tells me about his realisation mentioned above

I feel great because its something we had not discussed its something he actually tought of on his own and as far as i see it its GREAT progress. I tell WS this but frustrated by hearing about what WS cant do, didnt do, didnt think, didnt have time to do. I dont care about what he cant do i want to hear about what he has done and he needs to stop second guessing me because actually i was very happy with progress only ruined by his constaint negativity bibes.


4) Will talk to Steve about Xmas party u all know about that so not gonna say much more.

then i will talk to him about the way the WHY task went and go from there.

Todays update.

Well lets start on the good note, was so proud of DS aged 8 that it brought tears to my eyes. He has taken to wanting to go to the local shops (2 minute walk) by himself to spend his pocket money that he earns by helping out with chores (helping feed the pets, helping his brothers tidy up their room etc), I got home from work and he was acting really exited, so i went upstairs and foound a note he had written and next to them were chocolates. WS told me that he let DS go to the shops and was just as surprised as me when he got home as he had gotten himself a small treat, got his brothers treats and got WS a treat then he set on working on writing me the note and leaving my treat on the bed for me to find, all of this was done out of his own pocket money, we have never asked him to spend it on his brothers so we are really proud that he has been so generous and caring for them and us. He spent more of his pocket money on his brothers than he did on himself. oh no here come the teary eyes again...Im a very proud mamma!!

Not so good note

Im just so frustrated that it appears as if nobody gets me! WS told me that he has been posting for ideas on MB and was getting replyes to things he already does on a regular basis and does not understand why its not enough for me.
Well here is the situation, as you sussed out already i am a strong character and therefore since we have been married we have both equally shared the housework and the childcare, the kids help out too as i want to bring them up not relying on their future w to do all the housework etc. Kids are involved in housework at their own level, DS 8 has his own room and is responsible for keeping it tidy and feeding his hampsters etc, he also helps with the evening chores by feeding the dogs and cats, before dinner time we all bundle in the kitchen and the kids literally fight for the best chores (emptying the dishwasher, helping me load/unload washing machine just simple things) some days we have so much fun by getting a cloth each and just wiping cupboards together (even DS 1 has fun doing this) its just my way of fitting in time with kids and achieving the housework. I dont like the idea of ignoring them for an hour while i get on with it alone, that way we all have fun and even if the housework hey do is not exactly up to the best standards its still getting done. So i guess what i am trying to say that we are all active in the household, to me WS helping with kids and house is not really seen as extraordinary as some people seem to make out.

These are ieas of what makes me happy,

WS organising something for family to do, most of the time I am pushing him to go along to a day out, hes the negative one "no i dont think taking the kids to the beach is going to work because DS 1 is going to run off and we end up chasing him, then we have to find somewhere to chainge his nappy, the kids will get messy etc and i wont be able to relax enough to have fun etc". I push him we end up going and the kids are so grateful to be out they behave well.

WS taking me out, on his own just cause he wants to not because im whining my head off at him about an event i want to go to or because its a special occasion/task set. We both enjoy the same things (comedy clubs, cinema, concerts, trying out different foods/restaurants etc, im not that selfish as i wouldnt enjoy something that i knew he doesent like, and im lucky that we have the same interests.

WS looking at me with a spark in his eyes, he always has maintained that he loves my sense of style, everything i buy clothes wise etc. I find that hard to beleive, I would love for him to choose something for me to wear as then I would know that because he has chosen it then he must like it and would feel great wearing it (if money is tight for example he could go through my wardrobe and find an outfit he likes best, lay it out for me and when i get in from work says go get dressed i have choosen something i really like on you as im taking you out). Am I still sounding like a demanding freack??

I value and seek his opinion on the way I dress, do my hair and make up and although its always positive i always have to go seek it, its not volontered. He just seems to think that I accept he finds me attractive and he is happy with the way I look etc, I do sometimes but he cant keep on assuming that I know he likes me therefore he never has to tell me/ remind me.
This is most problematic in the bedroom, i have spent alot of effort in buying nice bedwear and no matter what i get he still reacts the same weather im naked or put on a corsett. I dont know how to get any actual exitement out of him!! its frustrating its not that he dosent get exited its just no matter what i wear the level of exitement is at the same level, can i really be getting it right every single time we have SC?? Really even after 10 years?? is this normal??

If i were to choose something completely selfish that would make me happy it would be to get a make over by the local department store where they show you how to use a certain make up range and custom taylor colors and methods of application to your specific look, I have been doing my make up the same way for ever and just wanted a fresh look at my approach to it.

Again another selfish thing I would have loved is for WS to be my forever sought after "gay best friend" character that will come with me clothes shopping and advise me on what looks good and what doesent, be brutally honest lol, i do this for WS all the time when we go shopping for clothes for him together and i wait by the changing rooms while he tryes things on etc.

AM I REALLY THAT UNREALISTIC WHEN I THINK ABOUT THINGS THAT MAKE ME HAPPY??? how come no one gets it??

I love the songs for the day thread so decided to add my own song of the day on my own thread. This song is driving me mad, i keep putting it on, I really like it, sums up my situation really well.

Way to go Black eyed peas - can you meet me half way

Hi BH28,

I don't think you are asking too much. It almost sounds as if you have the same WS as me - I hope not!

WS never organised anything for us and never told me I looked nice. If I asked he would always say "fine".

Reading the things you would like, they are all quite romantic. I think you are missing the romance and the feeling that gives one of being special.

You are special. You wouldn't be here otherwise.

Thanks TM for understanding and putting it so clarly, i never thought of it as "missing the Romance" now that i think of it your statement is spot on. I have still been following your thread and im so sorry you are having such a terrible time, Im just refraining from posting because i dont think MB's will agree with my view that your situations is difficult also because your WS is in USA and you are in UK. You have stated that he wants to stay there regardless of A and you want to stay in UK. This leads me to beleive a future is not possible for you two. I think alot of MB ers are totally pro marriage but then they got to be realistic, how can you have a marriage on different continents never mind the obsticals addedd by WS character flaw. I would say your doing the right thing by setting a target of January. After that i would try to move on from M.

Butting in to defend MBers, Bh:

Every thread that I have ever read on long-distance (inter-country, inter-continental) living arrangements has pointed out that these make MBing very difficult. If one spouse is still in an affair and the two spouses are not together, the impossibility of the situation is always stressed.

TM's original posts seem to have disappeared in the meltdown, but I remember reading about her situation before. She counselled with Steve Harley, whom I believe also focused on the long-distance issue. I think TM says somewhere on your thread that she is no longer counselling, because Steve has said that there is no more that he can do until H makes a move. I took that to mean an emotional move, to re-engage in the marriage and commit to living together.

MBers are pro-marriage but they give advice based on Dr Harley's rules. One of these is the rule of time, which means spending a minimum of 15 hours a week together. He recommends more if possible in the immediate rebuilding period after an affair. When a separation is temporary and unavoidable, he works with couples to find ways of staying close, such as phone calls and IMs for long periods each day. He recommends that the travelling spouse stays in his room and talks to his wife, rather than go out with friends when not working. You have to go to extraordinary lengths to make LB deposits if you are apart, and that is when both are willing. When one declares that he is finished with the marriage and is in an affair, then it is almost impossible for the other to apply Plan A effectively.

TM, would you back me in my impression of the advice you have received, here and from Steve?

SC I never questioned the advice as it has helped many but in this case REGARDLESS of A, WS want so permanently live in USA and TM wants ot permanently live in UK, her WS told her he wanted to live in USA before A even happened. I think that when two people dont live in the same continet regardless of A the situation becomes impossible. I will go back and find TM's quote that i am referring to for clarification. With or without A I am getting the impression that TM and her WS want completely different lives so how can you build a marriage around that?? do you get TM to give up her life here for WS, or do you get WS to give up on the life he wants in USA (again im not referring to A here) and come back to a place he no longer wants to live causing possible resentment?

the above quotes are what led me to beleive that this situation is more complicated than the average and Plan B will not work so its either plan A (no longer feesable) or plan D. Thats just my opinion, i am totally pro marriage but wouldnt encourage someone to hope for something that is still clearly very difficult to achieve. TM should try to move on with her life the best way she can or can stay hoping this man will not only give up A (something which he will be likely to do soon on his own accord anyway) but give up his new lifestyle and the new life he has built for himself in the place where he wants to be.