Hi BH28,

I have to agree with KaylaAndy. Let me tell you where I am now compared with 7 months ago.

I know now that it is no-one's responsibility to make me happy. I need to be happy within myself and with who I am as a person.
I choose how I react to other people's actions and re-actions and I get to choose whether to get upset or shrug things off.

I know that I will be a happier person with DH then without DH but I have to live with the choices he makes and I choose how I deal with those choices.
If WS decides to divorce me, I know that I would be happier with a new boyfriend than without one. But I can't rely on anyone else to make me happy in the first instance. They can only make me more happy.

Neither you nor your WS are in this place yet. You are still reacting to his affair and choosing now to not be happy with any efforts that he is making. His physical re-action to your anger was his choice and not a good one. But now, you get to choose how you re-act to that.

Take a deep breath. Try to control your anger when you are around him and the children and communicate in a more calm manner. Things will get better but you have to be patient.

BH, you know that I've posted a lot on your WH's thread in the past and many posts defend you. With that said, here's my take on your latest developments:
1. You H never, ever, ever has the right to lay a hand on you. This is a serious breach of any marital guidelines. You both need to deal with this assault.
2. However, when I read about your outburst, both in your words and in his, I could see my mother. She would often go into rages and throw things, break things that were precious to me, screaming and yelling. Yep, there were times when she and my dad got physical with each other as well.
As a child watching this, I never could understand why she had these outbursts, yet it became normal to me growing up. It was not until I was in my relationship with the man I would eventually marry, that I started to realize these outbursts were unacceptable.
You see, I had started to do exactly what my mom did. When I was mad, I would trash the room and break things. I thought that's what normal people did. After a lot of counseling, I had an "ah-ha" moment and realized that this was NOT the way a grown woman behaves. I'm happy to say, I haven't had that kind of outburst in more than a decade.
But with you, I hear my mom's voice. "I was tired." "He wasn't doing what he was supposed to do." "He did this and that..."
YOUR reactions are NOT about what HE did. They are YOURS. You must own them, just as I told your WH that he must own that he gave you an STD.
No one is blameless in this situation. Yes, your H chose to have an A, and that is indefensible. But it is NOT OK for a grown woman to have a temper tantrum like a 3-year-old.
You both need anger management counseling. At the very least, read up on the subject, for your childen's sake.
By the way, my mom? She's 70. Married to her second husband. To this day, she STILL has those kind of temper tantrums and thinks it's OK. You need to break this cycle NOW.

Positively BRILLIANT response from KaylaAndy! I spent last night and this morning, while I was dressing, thinking about how to respond to your post from yesterday and KaylaAndy said it much better than I could have ever hoped to. The only thing I would add is that, while you want your FWH to meet your EN's NOW, what are you doing to make it a welcome/receptive environment so that he will WANT to meet those EN's. Perhaps, your Angry (and possibly, verbally abusive) Outbursts and Disrespectful Judgments (in MB lingo, LoveBusters) are breaking him to the point where he doesn't know how to meet your EN's or is afraid that no matter what he tries, you'll just continue attacking him for his A.
I did not intend to minimize your experience or your pain. I have been around MB for many years, I usually only post when I can offer legal advice or suggetions on how to best navigate the corporate work environment to expose an A, as those are my only areas of expertise....certainly, I am not an expert on how to recover a marriage, because I was not successful in doing that.

I posted to you, though, because in reading your posts, I see a lot of the "old" me in you. I, too, was very controlling. I was stuck in victim mode. I have learned, too, that I was hyper-critical of everything my XH said or did. That is why I posted to you, because I felt an affinity toward you.

After my marriage ended, I had what I call an "epiphany relationship" that opened my eyes to how I treated XH. It was an epiphany because, this time, I was on the receiving end. The man I dated was very controlling and verbally abusive. Nothing I did was ever good enough for him. If I did exactly what he told/me asked me to do, it still wasn't good enough. The bar was every changing. I call it an epiphany because I had the good fortune to read a book called The Emotionally Abusive Relationship. It not only caused me to run as fast as I could from that loser, but it also caused me to do a lot of soul searching. It caused me to apologize to my XH for the way I treated him. Certainly, my behavior was not a justification for his A or his drinking (he is now sober for 6 months), but I can now see how it made him feel and how little he wanted to be around be becuase I constantly made him feel like a failure. The loser I dated eroded my self esteem with his constant haranging about what I did or didn't do. I can now see where I did the same to my XH.

Right this is the last time im going to read W thread but Im not going without making something very clear.

This is the FIRST time ever that my W has lost control and started phyically lashing out (throwing things) and as yesterday was the first reference to this incident i dont understand where everybody is getting the idea that she is an abusive partner.

It is not possible to give every angle and every detail within posts on this forum. Each post would be essays. The fact is each and every one of us has to select the most appropriate material at that time and try to express it the best we can to cover the point we are trying to get across to a wide range of users.

Obviously my W as the BS is going to be angry and heartbroken, you can ALL relate to that im sure. The fact is that she has had to deal with so much of my s**t over the last year that she is totally and utterly emotionally shattered. Look at it from her point of view. She is very good at analysing and offering advice. Our friends and family are always seeking advice as they value her brutally honest side and also her progressive thinking in situations.

Throughtout the year she has told me what she needs me to do to meet her EN but I have chosen not to do it for some reason or another. You can only imagine her frustration when I come on here day after day asking 'what do I do?'

I believe this situation isnt getting across to everyone fully, it looks as though we are still living together, im making a little effort at last and shes just being very unreasonable with all her requests and efforts I make.

The truth is she has suffered frustration at the highest level with me for a full year now, and when I do finally make an effort its pitiful and I dont get how to personalise it. You imagine living with someone for 10years and them knowing so little about you. Yes some uers WS may not be at home and other terrible circumstances, but if they were at home they would more often than not know what to do, no???

However the sid eof my W that WE havent got across is that she is so loving that when someone (anyone) shows care to her they get it back 10 fold. Anything Ive ever done for her, she has instantly repayed me with such love. This side of her has been lost in her posts as shes come to you at her most desperate and vunerable time.

You should be focusing on kicking my sorry [censored] and not focusing on someone who already feels guilty for her actions, and it getting continuely let down by her supposidly loving H. She should not be made to feel guilty for her actions, she is a loving person and posts like the couple above ARE NOT NEEDED OR ACCEPTABLE.

She constantly gives herself time to read other threads and wants to help anyone she can offer good adviec to, whether thats supporting the marriage or admiting its over. You will always get honesty with her, but sometimes you just need to look through the anger and remember where she is personally.

I am shocked that as WS or BS you all turned on my W so viciously, you of all people on this forum should be able to empathise and sympathise with the most difficult circumstances????

Im going back to my own thread now, wonder if i'll get needlessly criticised for speaking my mind too??

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread babe, but im getting angry on your behalf.... love you x

Emptionally,

your wife WAS not mishandled by anyone here. You are way out of line. NONE of the good and caring VETS on here are going to let bad behavior slide, EVEN when that behavior was done by the BS.

It is not acceptable to throw items around, it is not acceptable to make demands, it is not acceptable to curse and scream. She had CHOICES.......

Not2fun

ps.....Kayla, as always my friend you advice is dead one.....I LOVE you!!!
Brit, good to see you and your post was amazing as well

yllanoitomE-
Howz about you stick to your own thread. Your wife doesn't need you to defend her. She needs you to work on your own demons. I find your entire post patronizing.
Why don't you spend your time getting your resume out there rather than reading what we're discussing with your wife? Or, beter yet, why don't you do some reading of your own?

Slight TJ for yllan
It is great to see you defending your wife like that, however, I think replies have been made based on your wifes comments and the way she talks about you and because of the way you have been asking for help on your thread.

I, for sure, although wanting to help your wife have felt very uncomfortable doing so because of the tone of her posts - they put me on edge - I have to agree - like no other BS Ihave seen on here before.

I can empathise with your W, having too been on the recieving end of physical behaviour from my H.

J moved out for a couple of months and has made incredible progress - reading about anger, passive aggression, attended an Emotional Coping skills course and goes on an angermanagement one this w/e (all on the NHS).

Whilst he was moved out I was able to work out how my behaviour and attitude caused such triggers for him. Like you, he would mosey along and then bam all of a sudden lose control (only physical 3 times in 12 years).


You have punishing work schedules and home commitments, you both need to make more time for your M if you are serious about it.

BH,

Make a plan. Do not accept this again. For me just finding out about the local refuge and giving them a ring, working out what would happen with finances and finding out abou benefits; gave me the confidence to know that I would be fine alone and sent a very clear message to J that I wouldn't tolerate it again.

Ok this is really getting ugly and its got to stop now. Im here to get help not to be judged. I am shocked that WS has decided to stick up for me but saw me crying declaring i dont want to post anymore as had enough, im having hard time already without the need to be kicked while i am down. He read the posts while i was on the school run and decided he has had enough. What he feels about you and site is his to deal with i have my own mind and here is what i have to say for myself for the below highlited comments.

1) Since day one i have followed and complied with every single piece of advise that has come my way, I have got off my backside and got WS job opportunity, I have bought and read SAA, I have started coaching with Steve, and most of all i have been honest about the way i feel on here, yes i dont sugarcoat it but thats just the way i am. some people like my bluntness some dont, i cant please everybody no matter what i do. the only subject i struggle with is xmas party but then im working on that just because i dont instantly get the fact taht i shouldnt go does not mean that im not working on it. I am clearly not someone who comes on here to vent, be miserable then not try to help themselves one bit.

2)I dont like follwoing the heard so to speack, if i go on a thread where everyone is being postitive about a couple getting back together i try and give advise that is not the same as everyone else, I FULLY Read the thread by that person, GET MY FACTS straight then i would give them the more negative POV. If i got on a thread and everyone is being negative i do the opposite (refer to TM and Claygal threads for verfications of this) I am never going to be the type of person that follows in with everyone because whats the point of repeating the same thing as other have said. If i am not helping then i will gracefully retreat (refer to TM thread on that one), i am not scared to admit when im wrong and happy to help people not just sit here taking and not giving back. However I am getting frustrated with site because there are people who DONT read all the facts before offering advise, they just post on as many threads as they can in a day not choose a few that they can help with and do it fully. For the above reasons now i will not be posting on anyone elses thread if i can help it because im sick and tiered of getting slammed just because i have a different POV (a POV that is still within Harley teaching but different from others), this isnt a competition its real life and people on here need eachothers care and attention. I am sorry to say i am not the only member who feels this way i have had email contact from members who feel afraid to say things on here for fear of being slammed. I will not divulge who those people are for obvious reasons suffice to say i am not alone in this.


Now in respnse to specific comments

see below

I dont understand or maybe see where i have NOT taken responsibility for my own actions, i have stated several times that i am no angel. Yesterday when i posted i was still in shock and i was too caught up in relaying the details of what happened. Did i once deny i threw things, did i once say i was good he was evil?? no i didnt, i dont think what i did was right but i do understand why i did it this doesent excuse it but it does help me because when i understand why i do things (thanks to 3 years of thereapy that i am still in) it helps me prevent them from happening again rather than just sit there going "i did this cause im scum and thats the end of the matter". I did express i did not feel safe after what happened NOT because i thought WS was going to harm me but because WE BOTH lost control quickly and i didnt like that hence why i was prepared for him to leave until we can get to a safe place again.
Still there is alot of good avice and i really appreciated the overview at a point where I really needed it.

I use the site to express my views so that i am less critical of him in person, this was my venting space, this does not mean that i put him down, discourage him and call him a faliure when he tryes to do things please refer to below post for clarification, I do appreciate small steps he takes most of all i do want my M so I grab on to little rays of hope that can get me through tough days.


With him I try to encourage as much as i can but i need a safe place to vent express the other side and used this site to do this, i have now learned my lesson that this is not what to do and if i do carry on posting i will bear that in mind.

I am truly sorry that my behaviour has reminded you of your mothers as this is also a common behaviour trait my mother had and i strive to live my life being as different from my mother as i can, i am stil in thereapy to address the damage she has caused me. I am too much of a control freack to do this on a regular basis, i dont drink, never have done drugs because I DONT LIKE loosing control of myself. I do not find it acceptable and will rather walk away than do that. As WS pointed out this was the first time this has happened, I do not throw temper tantrums and the last time i lost control of myself was when giving birth to DS 5 who has heart issues, i didnt know if he would survive the birth and when i went into premature labour i was screaming in fear in the delivery room telling staff that I didnt want to push him out but he was coming out regardless. I would like to think MB members can make exeption for my loss of control on that one. I am patient with the children, i dont shout or smack them, and they have benefited from this a great deal, they are patient and loving with eachother and us.

I dont want WS to meet my EN now as Steve put it so clarly this would not work, He says i have wound on leg and until thats attended to there is no point meeting EN at this point, I respect his opinion however I want some proof that this attempt at mariage is not fake or taken as an opportunity for WS to cake eat in the sense i do all the work and he pretends to do his share of M building as this has happened so many times before. I am scared that im falling out of love with im as stated many times on this thread, and want something i can hold on to to get me through the bad days. I dont want to loose my family and if i do fall out of love with WS there wont be a family, this is not a threat made to him to get him off his backside, this is the reality of how i feel.

As far as chriticising WS he is the one doing that enough for the both of us and as highlited in above post this is clouding good moments. Its something we discussed and its something he is addressing well now.

The sentance that hits me where it hurts is when you refer to being stuck in victim mode. this is something my therapist (who helps me with childhood issues not A) has pointed out and i hated to think of myself like that but its true. I will keep that in check but the other side of not feeling like a victim in this situation is what?? I would genuinley like to know

I'll back off.
To those of us on the board, the abbreviated version of what was described was that you "tore up the house," and then your H "grabbed you by the throat."
Those are the words the two of you used to describe each other.
Obviously, BOTH of those descriptions gives us cause for alarm.
Good luck.

BH - I don't want to discourage you from posting and venting here - it's just that we can't seem to keep your husband from reading your thread - so there's a distinct possibility that the zingers you feel and you vent about here, are going to be delivered anyway. You can't shield him from what's real.

My intention in responding to you is not to judge you. You are not bad or good in my eyes. My heart goes out to you because I've been there.

I'm posting to encourage you to look more deeply at your own behaviors and thoughts. When I say you are more angry than I've experienced other betrayed spouses here, consider that it's not throwing things or destroying things alone that give me that information. It's your desire to crush OW and your attention on "saving" other couples from this predator is a rage reaction. It demonstrates an inability to think past the present pain into the what-ifs of certain situations. It also demonstrates that you are giving her way too much power to hurt you now.

I'm posting to encourage you to get a little Scarlett O Hara Attitude going - one thing about it - when Scarlett was faced with things beyond her control, she'd "think about it tomorrow" and she'd intentionally focus on what she had the power to fix right now. That focus will help you.

That's why I recommended making the list of attributes you want to be able to claim for yourself that are not part of your present character. Those qualities that you've surrendered to the hurt and the anger and fatigue of this last year.

Someone once used the visual of "tanks" connected by pipes as representing our connections to other people. The pipes can be disconnected at any time. But while the pipes are connected by emotion, there is a free-flow of love or toxic emotions flowing. If OW is represented by pure poison in her tank, is there any reason to maintain any connection to her by having ANY feelings about her whatsoever? You can't make poison anymore poisonous. So disconnect.

One last thought - healing from trauma like you've been through in the last few days can be painfully slow, or it can be fast, depending on your focus. Sometimes people NEED the painful path because they believe if they get over it quickly, it removes responsibility on the other party for the harm they've done.

You have to make that decision.

If you want to go the faster healing path, it will require a change in your focus from what it has been, but I'd be happy to provide support, if you choose to go that route. It's tougher at first, but oh so much better because the healing is more thorough, and the burden becomes very light with a change of heart and mind that comes through the process.

Let me know - the moderators have my email if you'd like to take it off line.

Staytogether you have been a great support to both of us however i am concerned that you feel uncomfortable in reading my posts and this is not said out of anger but i would please ask you not to read anymore because i dont want people to be uncomfortable but at the same time I really dont feel its fair for me to censure myself. I accept that the way i feel isnt for everyone to stomach and appreciate the honesty. I have 3 choises here

1)quit posting due to making people uncomfortable because i am unlike any BS that has been on here before (yes totally feeling like a freack now).

2) carry on posting being myself and accept i am different

3) post only when good things happen as that way no one can get offended but dont know how much help im going to get in that scenario.

someone please tell me what to do cause im really stuck on this one.

And ST please dont be offended by this its nothing against you infact i get the feeling alot of people feel the same as you and for the sake of MB harmony i want to address this.

BH: WOW Talk about a blow up

We all need to back off! Everyone take a breather! This site is a safe haven for EVERYONE. If that is the case then BS/WS alike are going to benefit.

BH: I am new to the site, so I don't know if you're "unlike any BS ever". You are not unlike me. I want to know that everything I am feeling, going through, dealing with no matter big or small can be thrown out here discussed, hashed out, shaken out and positive reinforcemnts achieved. Let's let the dust settle a little, you have been dealing with this a very long time. I don't know if your WH posting on your site is healthy or not, but it was nice to see him come to your aid.

Don't stop posting on my thread, i value your opinion. You had a most unsettling and horrific night, I don't condone the physical aspect of what all took place, I just want you to make sure your kids and you are safe. Put bounderies in place for both of you so that this will never escalate to his again. It just throws a big old monkey wrench in recovery. It sounds like you both put together "The Perfect Storm" scenerio and the boat was ripped to shreds. that's ok, hang on and jump in the life rafts and float until you see dry land.

I am so sorry for all the pain you are feeling. Take a couple days off from this site if needed, then come back refreshed and ready to swim. Talk openly and honestly with Steve, let him help with guiding you both to a safer way of working through the ugliest, hardest most horrible part of this A, the truth of both of your failures. Please know that when I say that that I too have had to face the ugly side of me, the ugly gut wrenching choices I made in my marriage that made the environment condusive to his choices. I don't take responsibility for his choice, I just know that I played a part in the dysfunction of my marriage.

Please know that my heart is with you, and your pain is not goin unnoticed or brushed away. Just take some deep breaths and go into a healthy holding pattern for a couple of days. Give yourself permission to push this out of your mind as hard as that will be, just for a moment. You are in this for the long haul, whatever that might be and whereever that leads you, conserve your energy.

Ask Steve about this tomorrow.

It might be best for you to both to continue coaching with Steve and not post here at all (neither of you). You are paying for expert advice, after all, so why not follow that to the letter, without the less-than-expert advice from us? We are well-meaning, and some of us have been through what you are now, but we are not MB professionals.

Hey imnot and Kyla

I am sorry really am that i made you feel like your views arent welcome. they are, i think both me and WS think the situation was incredibly violent because we compare it to a non violent exsistance that we have lived for 10 years, in prospective of actual violence that you hear about on tv etc this incident appears minor and insignificant, so i am really sorry that you appear to have been misled but it was scary for me because its new and dont have experience of personal violence to compare it to (well my mum throws stuff around all the time but i was just used to her beeing that way i didnt make the connection). As stated my mum actually shot my father because he was in an A, this has led me to be extra cautious with violence during and after D-day, yes i felt like slapping him but i didnt, i think of the legacy i have grown up with as a resul of her actions and its the last thing i want to pass on to my kids. I was the kid caught in the crossfire so i know what they would feel if i became my mother.

kayla

WS husband reading my thread is an issue and i have now asked him again not to do that, i am happy to give him fair feedback if he asks for it myself because i can explain it to him in less of a hurtful way. So far he has agreed to this but until i verify this i will refrain from total venting, i will try to be more fair. (yes the phrase Steve taught me "trust but verify" is now forever ingrained in my brain).

The issue with OW is that i am hoping once WS moves jobs i will be able to shrug her off, right now its like she is rubbed in my face everytime WS goes to work. I have stopped looking at her FB profile etc but still have an urge to see karma catch up with her and want to know about every single misfortune that hits her but I am trying to think "shes not my problem to solve" whenever i get carried away with helping/hating her. Part of me wants to rach out to her so much and just help her be a better person, part of me wants her to disappear, its hard but im really working on shes not my problem to solve thoughts.

I started going to a thereapy group 3 years ago to work on me, childhood issues and selfdistructive bevaior that i have about myself, as i said before i dont like myself one bit but got fed up at being 25 a mum and spending so much energy hating myself i joined this therapy group, I have come a long way there and worked so hard to get well all round but unfortunately A happened towards the end of my group attendance and it kicked up alot of issues that had been sorted. I havent been to group in weeks because simply cant face turning up there feeling like the faliure i have become but i will make an effort to turn up next week and start my own personal recovery.

Beleive it or not i am trying so hard to hold onto the postitives that have come out of this mess. for example i used to work for a big insurance company earning well and after A I had brakedown didnt want to go back there (as it was an hour away and everyone knew what had happened and i just wanted to be closer to home, i wanted to be where i felt safe and near the kids), they tried to keep me by throwing money at me but i still walked away, i felt so worthless i got a job at the local Macdonalds, claning etc, because it was local and felt thats what i was worth, I am now being made manager but dont want that, i am focusing on what i have always wanted to be and that is being a paramedic, i am due to apply in december and only hope i get in, so i am trying to be positive everytime i go to work and think hold on this is just a temporary thing its perfect stopgap to my dream job, i do resent WS on the days i am elbow deep in cleaning the toilets but then i have to take my share of responsibility for not coping after A and choises i made.

this is just one example of how i have tryed and trying to make the best of a horrible situation. I keep thinking that if we get through this we will have such a great marriage that one day we may even be greateful for A. The only way A will go away is if we build a fort together and thats why i work so hard at getting it out of the way.

As far as what happened yesterday i am still so in shock i cant describe it more accurately than that, i dont knwo how to feel about it (and this is coming from someone who knows themselves well) im confused, im not angry at all (very strange for me) im almost sedated by what happened so would welcome all the insight and help you can give me. Have spent the day really sedated, sleepy and just not being able to think clerly about mundane tasks, i dont recall many details of what happened anymore (blocking out?) and WS has been very supportive loving so confused.

Hey BH - You seem to be in a better place today. It is very hard to get past the pain and anger. I am having a hard time with that myself right now.

Just wanted you to know that I have been thinking about you and praying for you. I will also say a prayer for your new job as a paramedic!!

Blindsbetty and SC,

thanks for your input, I dont think i am at a place where i am able to come onto the site and talk about whats happening in M right now, things have been very nice today but it just makes the whole thing more surreal so i do think it is wise to take a few days off and get advise from steve.
BS you are more mature than me because you are a grown up and i feel like i am still a kid in so many ways playing at being a grownup. I do admire the way you handle your WS and wish i had more grace like you. You understand the well what has been lost for us as you and WS were your one and onlys for a very long time and unfortunately there are very few people i know who can understand that side of the loss. Your WS reminds me of mine so much that i feel real sympathy and care for him, he loves you he just doesent know how to deal with the mess, because he has lived a long time in a sheltered position where he hasnt had to deal with other women often. Just take care of eachother and remember nothing can breack the years of love and care you have given eachother if you both want to hold onto it.