You're right cwmi. I need to "to rest with the Lord" because I'm a big f***ing loser who was not only stupid enough to get a masters in a place where the business climate stinks, but can't command a salary high enough to support my husband and household.

Actually, we probably could live on one salary. We've each been through a stint of unemployment (wow, I can't wait for your comeback on that one) and have survived okay. We are also debt-free. But we're trying to bank up enough of a nest egg to retire early.

I do manage to get some recreational prusuits in with the help of modern technology and the ability to solve most issues by phone. You see, my H doesn't throw a hissy fit if I have to take a few moments to deal with a work call. In fact, instead of pi$$ing and moaning about taking attention away from him, he usually heaps praise upon me for my effective and efficient handling of work calls. I have actually conducted business from a ski lift, from a boat, and from my kitchen while preparing Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners. I call it multitasking.

And you are slipping, dear, with your remark "maybe you have family there who will starve with you." Apparently you've already forgotten that I'm a "dead limb on my family tree."

I may not have an H with a huge salary that allows me to live in a big house with designer haircuts, designer clothing, and designer children, but at least my H and I are flexible enough in our work/life balance and dealings with one another that we are not at each others' throats day in and day out.

Not bathing? Yuck, I don't know how you can do it. It makes everything else dirty.

What do I like when I get home? It would be nice to be greeted with a kiss and a smile. The rest takes a backseat. I don't want to hear a bunch of negative stuff. Believe me I use to, but after years of telling me she doesn't want to hear about any "bad" parts of my day, I don't want her to tell me her bad parts of the day. That just frustrates me to no end. Now that she works a whole 6 hours per week she thinks the sky is falling! She went from not getting anything done to complaining about work AND not getting anything done. Of course, she says that ALL working mothers stay up until 11-12 at night cleaning and the entire weekend is devoted to cleaning and laundry. Someone help me out on this, because as soon as I mention a friend, she tears them down that their kids are this/that and they're unhappy blah, blah, blah. I tell her they are efficient, NOT THE RIGHT THING TO SAY!

She sympathizes with what she put me through in the past when I would have a concern about work and she didn't want to hear it, and now wants ME to listen to her's. Ugh, there's no fairness in this. I can only THINK I told you so. She knows I'm thinking it about a ton of stuff.

It would just be nice if her past arrogance would go away. Her humility has gone up, but her arrogance hasn't gone away. Don't ask me how!!!

Alice, what do you think of setting some boundaries, as has been discussed?

OH, in case I didn't make it clear, that line of thinking drives me crazy too, and for the same reasons you stated, it's not that simple. My H will not leave this state... period. And to be honest, despite the area's shortcomings, I'd be reluctant to leave as well, as there are good things that keep me here. I also have a mom closeby and don't want to be too far away if I might be needed.

I don't know how military folks and others who move frequently do it, esp. if kids are involved, changing schools, and friends, and so forth. Then again, I have friends who moved a lot through their lives and adjusted just fine.

themud, if I were you, I'd install cameras in your house, to see what your wife REALLY does with her time.

THEN sit down and set some rules.

I agree I need to work on this area of my life and how to be more assertive.

I think this is hilarious!!!

someone's thread about what/how to respect your husband AND what do husbands want when they get home BOTH turn into B**** sessions about their husbands.

Oh, by the way I know many MBAs working as bartenders, construction etc. If you are lucky to have an Ivy league edu. it's a no brainer, but MBA does not = $$ anymore, just like Esq. doesn't mean $$ anymore. I have a friend who started cutting lawns in middle school and now is full of $$, finally finished a business degree in his 30s because it was a personal goal. I have to say he was too busy with his multi million dollar landscape business to go to University. I know he is stressed with the size/scope of his business, but envy the fact that while I was getting 125k in debt he was making that kind of money.

Ay, there's the rub. You're not understanding situations where one is flexible (don't need new cars, big houses, housekeepers, new stuff) and the other is not (gotta slave to The Man, The Man comes first, Real World, etc.).

Gotcha.

Maybe I'm just too distracted by that shiny thing to understand your sitch.

Somehow I missed your earlier posts re: location and line of work and how that all feeds into the income - just stumbled across them now. What we've got in our area, where salaries are notoroiusly low to begin with, is a glut of "qualified applicants" for jobs in both our fields. There are opportunities, but a hundred or more people are competing for every single job opening. Then I look at themud's buddy who built his own landscaping business -- something that CANNOT be outsourced to China or India -- and think to myself how I went into the wrong line of work!

G,

I don't think it's too late get a new "gig" going. I know it probably feels like that, but I also think opportunity is all around us. I work more hours now in the same profession than I did 2 years ago, but I'm under less stress and I think it's worth it, so there are trade offs.

I think letting me have 2 beers a night without nagging me like I'm an alcoholic (I'm not). I don't need the beer, just like the taste (really!). She use to call me a perve for wanting sex 2 nights in a row or more than 1x/mo. I finally figured out that I'm not and that I'm a good person (not as good as I'ld like to be, so working on that). I know she sees me coming out of some kind of cacoon and I think it frightens her and she is really trying in the SF department.

I wouldn't have an issue with 2 beers a night--for him that is. I'd be under the couch but that's me. But what *does* constitute an alcoholic? I've seen my husband's drinking habits go from totally social when we were dating and first married (drinking while out to dinner or for an evening) and a few beers during a football game on TV to

--a half glass of wine with dinner at home some nights
--a glass of wine with dinner every night
--a glass of wine before and one with
--multiple glasses of wine before, during and after (finishes a 1.5 ml bottle in under 2 days for the most part
--drinking one to two drinks before going out for the evening where alcohol is served (and consumed by him) and drinking when we return
--finishing off a six pack during a weekend day--no problem

and other things.

I say there's a problem, he says I'm nuts.

hmmm. I exercise ALOT, and I can tell you alcohol affects that negatively and I plan my workout routines, and do not drink the night before a hard routine b/c it kills my performance, even if I have 1 drink.

What is an alcky? Good question. I assume when it affects you and those around you? My wife use to drink as much as me, but has become a teatotaller (sp), and doesn't like to at all now, and for some reason she thinks if doesn't I won't (is that a word?).

OurHouse,
I finally got back to finish answering your question about your husband's excuses, that you are so hard to talk to.

2) he doesn't want to listen to it because he says I don't listen to him.
That I have a need to just 'spew' until everything is off my chest and then I'm done.


This is an excuse, and it is about getting even.
It is disrespectful, because it dismisses everything you say as just your anger, not worth listening to.


Again, just excuses for his rejecting your attempts to engage him.

I will bet you he does try to engage you, but is so defensive, and full of baggage from his work problems that he has unable to do it properly. Unfortunately, that puts it on your shoulders to figure out what he is really trying to say, and respond to that, instead of the way he packages it.

The upside is that if you can learn to do this, it is valuable for other people, as well, children and adults.

Good book on this is, "The Relationship Cure", by John Gottman.
It dissects all these personas and converstational styles.

I think back and would have loved to have gone to the bar, had a beer watched some stupid game on the tv and chatted with the bartender and some stranger, THEN went home. This however would have made my wife angry that I didn't come straight home to help her do the things she could've been doing all day, but instead was talking with friends all day.

As it was/is, I come home and if I'm quiet... it's not ok, if I come home and tell her my worries for the day and concerns... it's not ok. I am to come home with a smile on my face everytime and tell her everything just keeps getting better, I'm making more money everyday, and it's all thanks to her.

I've learned to repress any thoughts that she might feel are negative, but OMG if I don't let her vent... again, it's not ok. Soul mate my A$$, and someone to come to or run to... yeah right. As a guy with confidence and a sense of self esteem it's hard to say sometimes, but I feel like a freaking island in the middle of no where with no one to talk to about concerns.

Again, IMO, that's because she is spoiled.

She is no different than one of those girls you see on that Super Sweet Sixteen show, where daddy has given her everything she's ever wanted, never made her work for any of it, replaces it when it's no longer cool or shiny enough...and all she does is disrespect her father.

You've created a spoiled daughter.

Not saying that's your fault, just that she took the bait and ran with it. Now you have the ability to stop it.

The first thing I would do is cut off cable, cut off cell phone, cut off credit cards, cut off Internet, and give her a landline phone with no long distance service. If she needs a long-distance call or money for clothes, she can wait til you're home for work. THEN, she'll realize she does need you for something.

Well it's starting to come to a head anyway. We don't have cable/sat. and she doesn't use a cc. She uses her cell for biz that she started to finally get serious about. As far as internet, she's not that attached to it and it seems to be mostly used for organization of kids schedules etc. She's in her late 40's and really thinks the tech. stuff is too much. She is just ultra-inefficient. I'm not great at multi tasking, but I can hear the wash/dryer go off and know immediately a new load can go in and the dry clothes need to be folded then put away.

It's totally an efficient/priority thing with her. I took 4 1/2 mos. off in '08 for example and it's funny (don't laugh though) to see how she gets things done. It's almost painful to watch, and can totally see how she would be tired at the end of the day. During that time I did have the kids doing things and was able to get many things done before and after my workout routines (that lasted sometimes 7 hours straight) and still have the energy to bbq and want SF later. She blamed it on her age and my youth, but it really is priority and effeciecy. She does not like it pointed out though, and likes the freedom to jugle things... I guess that is why I get home and absolutely nothing has been done all day.

cat,

Thanks, I'm venting too though. Understand I did want it changed and we've been through these struggles. I'm worn out from verbalizing the issues with talk only. My boundaries are now starting to settle a little. I do very little around the house anymore and she notices this. She use to say if I wanted SF, then I would have to do this or that and SF never came, so I am now not doing "this" or "that" and she does notice, but can't say anything because she knows her side didn't change.

That is why I registered here in May (I think) because she was/is starting to change a little, and my resentment is starting to lessen because I was starting to put up some boundaries. Unfortunately I screwed up last month (thread: OMG, PLEASE TALK ME OUT OF THIS), so now I'm being watched for IB.

Our 1400 year anniversary is coming up this weekend. In 13 yrs. I think we've only SF on our ann. 3 times, we'll see if it's any different. I do remember last years and it was great, we'll see if she can match it. I don't think she will (like that DJ?) because she'll be coming home from a weekend trip. Yes it will be me and one child, and she told our child to be with me all weekend etc, etc.

I really do get it, tm. I'm the queen of appeasement.

But because of that, I'm here to tell you that you don't want to spend the rest of your life appeasing. It just doesn't work. Sooner or later, something breaks. You, her, your marriage, your sanity. It can't last.

You have to start being honest with her.

I was honest and upfront for a good 12+ years and believe me it wasn't fun at times doing this, and yes I broke. I literally told her last fall I've broke, and if that is what she wanted then she succeeded, that is when she started to change a little. Then I was totally confused, registered here and on the marriage bed on how get rid of my past resentments IF she was really changing. She is changing, but like I've said, I'm broken and pray it's not too little too late for us to R. For all of our sake, I hope it's not but at the present time it still is and that is why I say she has 7+ years to prove me wrong. I can do the time, heck my libido has waned enough and I can deal with doing my own laundry.

Have you ever heard the term "throwing pearls to swine"? Yes it's in the bible and I think the analogy is that you can't convince someone of something if they are not willing to try to listen and understand, you end up wasting your energy. I've wasted a lot of energy. She sees that now and when something comes up she can see me thinking 'I told you so' or 'BTDT'. Sometimes I'll chuckle and tell her to be careful not to go to far and she stops short realizing it. It's nice now that she does that where before she would just bulldoze ahead with comments etc. that we ended up arguing.

Things have gotten better, but I wouldn't say I'm exactly fixed yet. She often now tells me how she didn't know how to be a wife. Like anyone does or like I knew how to be a husband. I didn't, but I have a strong sense of justice and fairness and she didn't and that is where our marriage has struggled... fairness and equal input. Just get very tired sometimes, something that is foreign to me.

So ladies, if he's throwing his shirt in the middle of the room, tuck it under the bed and let it pile up and say you don't know where all his close went, he'll learn and most guys will see that as teaching. At the same time even the manliest men need someone to be there for them. You don't have to be his mother, just be his partner.

Think of it this way. If he had a lifetime partner that he had to resolve himself to for the rest of his life and the company they ran together depended on it, you'ld want to hear every nook and cranny of his fears, his worries and concerns about that company. That doesn't mean he'll always make the best choice, but he is human too.

Respect goes out to him for who he is not what he did, does, or didn't do.