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I don't see anything in that agreement that says you have to keep her stuff IN FRONT OF YOU. Box it all up and dump it in the garage. Or a storage shed out back. Should make for great bedding for some critters.,,
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I don't see anything in that agreement that says you have to keep her stuff IN FRONT OF YOU. Box it all up and dump it in the garage. Or a storage shed out back. Should make for great bedding for some critters.,, I'm not sure I understand. If I'm trying to win her back, how is this being helpful? I know I came to this site looking for support and recovery. I know that there's a better-than-even chance we'll not reconcile. But aren't Plans A & B designed to bring the WW back? Oh, I have every intention of putting all of her stuff into one room (it's a large house, and with her gone, and no kids coming over, I have room to spare). I just don't see the need to be overzealous.
Last edited by Fred_in_VA; 11/27/09 05:23 PM. Reason: Added comment
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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Because you don't go along with an affair. You Plan A, you Plan B, but in no way do you help her leave you, do anything that helps her consort with another man, or pay for her to leave you in any way.
Plan A means meeting her needs while at the same time making carrying on an affair very uncomfortable. It does NOT mean being nice to the point of a doormat; she will lose whatever little respect she still has for you. And Plan B...well you have NO obligation to be nice at that point. In fact, it serves two purposes - keep you from having to think of her so much by not dealing with her so you can get on with life, and showing HER that you're so disgusted that you'd rather shun her than deal with her as long as there's another man in the picture.
Basically, it means standing up for yourself. NOT being nice. And it means making her new, wonderful life as uncomfortable as possible without you to support her.
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Because you don't go along with an affair. You Plan A, you Plan B, but in no way do you help her leave you, do anything that helps her consort with another man, or pay for her to leave you in any way.
Plan A means meeting her needs while at the same time making carrying on an affair very uncomfortable. It does NOT mean being nice to the point of a doormat; she will lose whatever little respect she still has for you. And Plan B...well you have NO obligation to be nice at that point. In fact, it serves two purposes - keep you from having to think of her so much by not dealing with her so you can get on with life, and showing HER that you're so disgusted that you'd rather shun her than deal with her as long as there's another man in the picture.
Basically, it means standing up for yourself. NOT being nice. And it means making her new, wonderful life as uncomfortable as possible without you to support her. OK, I get it, I think. But she's practically gone already. She has the [i]right[/] to enter the house until midnight, Nov. 30. She's been gone all week, and I'm trying to find out when she plans to come get her stuff. Plan A comes a little late in our case. And she has already stated she wants out of the marriage. So Plan B to me is more just getting her out of my mind and sight than anything else. Dr. Harley predicts A's of this type "die a natural death" over time, and everything I can see and hear leads me to believe this will be the case. But if she's determined to leave the M anyway, isn't being harsh and brutal in Plan B just more ammo to her mindset to leave?
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Should I still wear my wedding ring? I took it off (she did too, and I don't know when) after she said she wanted to leave. Is wearing it in keeping with Plan B?
My attorney made sure that I was aware that my WW and I are separated and not divorced.
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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What is harsh and brutal about removing memories of her from in front of your face every day?
Moving her stuff to storage shows her that she has HURT YOU.
She NEEDS to see that.
How else will she ever come to realize that what she did was wrong?
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What is harsh and brutal about removing memories of her from in front of your face every day?
Moving her stuff to storage shows her that she has HURT YOU.
She NEEDS to see that.
How else will she ever come to realize that what she did was wrong? Good point, Cat. I am beginning a new thread, titled "Plan B Letter - Second Draft" which addresses this, I think. Because "New to MB" is now a bit disingenuous, don't you think?
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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In response to replies I received earlier on my first draft, I have revised the Plan B letter I intend to hand to my WW (and mail copies to OM & OM's W). Earlier this evening, I drove to the home I had determined was the OM's address. It was: both her car and his were in the driveway. I have also checked tax records and determined he does not own the house, so he must be a renter. Ergo, the reason she can't move in with him (although she seems to have done just that, albeit without luggage, furniture, etc.). I would like to read Zelmo's response. I'm beginning to believe he and others may be right: I might just be better off without her. I am really conflicted and my emotions are ruling my life right now. This does not make for good decision-making. Here is the revised letter. As before, I welcome comments, suggestions, criticisms and caveats: Address & Date headings omitted.
My Dear S_____,
Today is the day that by mutual agreement, signed and notarized, this address ceases to be your home. In keeping with our stated goal of a mutually respectful environment, I ask you to observe the following:
� Do not call, email or text message me. When you wish to come by and retrieve your things, please contact my attorney (name & phone here) and we will arrange a mutually agreeable time to do so. The only exception is that you may mail me a check for the car payment, due on the 4th of each month for $5**.**.
� The next time you appear at this house it should be with a moving van. I do not care to be inconvenienced by your need to make multiple trips.
� Please have your mail forwarded as soon as possible. Any mail arriving here for you will be returned undeliverable.
� I do not wish to keep the cat. Take her, or I will find an adoptive home for her.
S_____, we have both burned a lot of bridges the past five weeks. I have left one standing. But it is very narrow. And a lot of water is flowing under it. You must know the pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with M___, and I simply cannot stand to see or speak with you knowing you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.
Please respect my decision to move forward this way. I would like to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each others� emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. We began our relationship as best friends, each others� biggest fans, and partners. I want to return to that wonderful, loving relationship.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing M___.
With my love,
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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If it were me, I would be a bit more specific about my conditions for being willing to see or speak with her ever again:
1. Contingent upon no-contact-for-life with the other man, and
2. Contingent upon commitment to a marital recovery program of my choice.
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If it were me, I would be a bit more specific about my conditions for being willing to see or speak with her ever again:
1. Contingent upon no-contact-for-life with the other man, and
2. Contingent upon commitment to a marital recovery program of my choice. Both excellent points, Barnboy. Without them, the letter misses the entire purpose of Plan B, doesn't it? OK, Third Draft coming in the morning (at least I have the weekend to "get it right").
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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I'm sorry your in this to Fred, thanks for the hello in mine. I was around MB from Feb of this year myself but kinda stopped coming around after July. The hardest part of MB for me is seeing others going through what I now consider the worst torture conceivable.
I'm very tired right now but there is an old Plan B letter that I might have on hand to show you.
Things you want to consider are: Respect, how she will prove/what you want to feel at ease that proves no contact. Passwords, phone records, never being anywhere without accountability. Never leaving your side. Stuff like that.
BH(me) 27/WW 27
Togther 3/married 3
PA Aug 08
D-day Jan 23 09
Divorce July 8 09
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[quote=Barnboy]If it were me, I would be a bit more specific about my conditions for being willing to see or speak with her ever again:
1. Contingent upon no-contact-for-life with the other man, and
2. Contingent upon commitment to a marital recovery program of my choice. Hi Fred! As Barboy pointed out, the Plan B letter should contain a PATH back. That does mean you are promising anything, only that you will consider reconciliation under certain conditions in the future. That way, you are not slamming the door shut. There is the letter in SAA you can use, or here is one that might be helpful: Dear _________,
It is truly sad what has happened to our marriage and us, and the path that I must take now is not one of choice but one of self-preservation.
I know I have made mistakes in the past and I am truly sorry for helping to create an environment that has made it possible for your current relationship with another person. I do know those things I was lacking in - I just didn’t understand how important it was to us. I am continuing to grow as a _______, and will continue working to further understand my shortcomings in our marriage.
The past few months have been the most difficult time of my life. The pain and emptiness that I endure on a daily basis is almost too much to bear. My only consolation is the memories of the love we once shared, of the all good times we have spent together, your extraordinary qualities that led me to commit to spend my life with you and thoughts of us being together, someday happy again.
Unfortunately, I now find those thoughts and feelings are rapidly eroding away. Before I lose any more of the thoughts and feelings of what was once us, I must take some drastic steps.
As you know I am still willing to do whatever it takes to correct the mistakes that we have made in the past and make our marriage together stronger and closer than we ever thought possible. With all of my heart, I would like to build a new marriage with you. One in which we both feel loved, safe, and cherished. I simply cannot continue my efforts to rebuild our marriage while you are still involved with another person. It has become too painful.
Until you commit to a verifiable plan of No Contact with __________, I feel I must break off all contact with you. I will avoid seeing you or talking to you or communicating with you in any way.
I ask that you respect my decision to break off contact from you in this way. You must know the deep pain and humiliation I have endured because of your relationship with another person. I simply cannot be in contact with you any longer and this action is a necessity to preserve my love for you, to avoid poisoning all that we have shared together, and to give our marriage the best chance for recovery should you make the choice to save what can still be saved.
I will only be willing to discuss a future together as soon as you are willing:
• To permanently separate/have absolutely no contact with ___________
• To construct a plan together to ensure a complete separation
• To write a No Contact letter to _________, which we will review and send together.
I have loved you in many different ways; as a girlfriend, as a wife, as a confidant and as a friend. I have loved you every one of the __ years I have known you. I still love you today.
Your ________,
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hi Fred! As Barboy pointed out, the Plan B letter should contain a PATH back. That does mean you are promising anything, only that you will consider reconciliation under certain conditions in the future. That way, you are not slamming the door shut.
There is the letter in SAA you can use, or here is one that might be helpful: Hi Melody. Thanks, that's an awesome letter! I am going to use a lot of it in my next draft (I hope folks don't mind me posting these here; in my emotional condition, I'm not making good decisions, and I need support and steadying influences). Since WW and I have a legal separation agreement, and I know her better than I can represent here, I do want to keep the specifics of Plan B in my letter (no writing, email, etc.). She's had five weeks to plan her exit from the house, and has done little or nothing to further that goal (I have determined she is in active alcoholic relapse, just not yet drinking). When Tuesday rolls around, and she is required to be out of the house, I want her to know that I don't care if all she has are the clothes on her back. Her failure to plan is her plan to fail. Now I'm going back to drafting my letter. I truly appreciate the kindness shown by sharing yours with me.
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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I'm starting a new thread here since it doesn't seem to be covered in the posts over my original thread. To those new to my sitch, here's the deal: WW is legally obliged to "vacate the Premises" no later than November 30. This is the day I hand her the Plan B letter. Now I wonder what I say to our neighbors. WW used to gather monthly with the wives to play Bunko (sp?) and do the things neighbor wives do. I know she's told them she's leaving, but I don't know how much she's told them. I read one of her emails (yes, I snoop) and she said her "friend" was having surgery and she wouldn't be around much. Should I expose the A to my neighbors? After all, I will be in their presence (and they in mine) every day. She won't. And if I inform them, do I do so in a matter-of-fact way, or do I reveal how much I know, and how disreputable and disgusting the OM and WW are behaving? I'm not close with my neighbors, but we do chat, share tools, and generally enjoy the "All-American neighborhood" community.
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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A follow-up question: I plan on mailing the Plan B letter to the OM and his W as well. Should I also mail a copy to the woman whose house he's currently residing in, and where my WW has "set up camp?"
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Yes, tell any that ask that she is having an affair with someone from AA and is leaving to pursue her affair with a married man. Everyone should know. She should not be protected from the consequences of her actions.
Has the affair been exposed to her family and yours? Does everyone else know?
Also, Fred, it is probably a good idea to stick to one thread so ppl can keep track of your story. It is real easy to lose the thread of your story, or to misunderstand if you have several threads.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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A follow-up question: I plan on mailing the Plan B letter to the OM and his W as well. Should I also mail a copy to the woman whose house he's currently residing in, and where my WW has "set up camp?" The Plan B letter should only go to the WS and the OP. If there is anyone else involved, a simple phone call to expose the affair if they are an exposure target.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I think you should tell your neigbors matter or factly. There will be questions, and she shouldn't be the only one answering them. As far as the letter, if they are going to live in this woman's house, think she has the right to know the circumstances. I would send her the letter too.
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Quick idea, give your WW a chance to tell neighbours by telling her she has to tell them because you wont lie on her behalf if your asked about her absence. Her choice then, she cant really get angry at you for warning her that you wont lie for her.
BW 36(Me)
WS 38
Married: 2000
DD1November 22 2008 - DD2 October 2014
PA Duration September 08 - November 08
Second discovery- 6 online affairs 4 sexual one emotional. October 2014.kids: DS 17, DS 14, DS 12, DS 10 . Baby after divorce DS 18months
Divorced
Was misled into thinking we were in recovery for 6 years.
If you were shocked reading any of this, that this is the consequence of not following MB to the LETTER.
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BH, blackmailing a WS into busting himself usually works against the BS. It not only gives the WS a heads up, but it gives him the opportunity to SPIN the story. It causes nothing but a fight when the BS holds a gun to their head and tries to force them to confess. Much better to just expose the affair and get the truth out there. Then the WS is caught off guard and doesn't have time to think up a lie.
Its much simpler to just pick up the phone and expose the affair without adding new complications.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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