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Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Looks great, Fred!

One other thing to consider. If you give her the letter and she won't move, then you can't go into Plan B, and she will have this letter and you will have egg on your face. It might work to your advantage to get her out FIRST and once she is really gone and the locks are changed, THEN hand her the letter.

It will be critical that you don't speak or see each other after the letter is delivered, however that is achieved.

Again, very wise words from you, ML. Thank you.

My intent was to hand it to her right after I had removed the garage door opener, cleared the code from the car, and just before she backed out of the driveway. Not a moment before.

And as to her refusing to leave, my attorney simply said that if WW refuses to abide by the terms of a legal contract, I should contact her (the attorney) and she "would take care of it." I'm guessing that means by sending the Sheriff over...

Sounds good!

Shaddup, Zelmo!! grumble


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Sh0cked
Exposure is a great tool that should be use with precision. The shotgun approach can make things more difficult in recovery.


QFT. The trouble is figuring out who will actually have an impact on the wayward's mind, and who won't. The exposure targets I thought would have the most influence didn't, and one incidental exposure that I just thought would be a good idea one day ended up being pivotal in ending my FWW's affair.

EDIT to clarify: I agree with the sentiment that a shotgun approach causes problems during recovery. I disagree that you can know who the appropriate exposure targets ARE at the time. I tried to expose to every single friend my FWW had, and this one person was the one who most helped change FWW's mind. You can't know who is going to be able to influence her, so everybody you can think of who might currently have any sort of contact with her should know.

Last edited by Barnboy; 11/28/09 02:57 PM.

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QFT?

For what its worth, exposure does not harm a marriage, it harms the affair. The wider it is exposed, the greater chance it will die and the less chance it will resume. A nuclear exposure typically is the most effective. It doesn't hinder recovery. Like BB pointed out, you never know who will be instrumental in helping the marriage. Exposure is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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QFT == "Quoted For Truth"

If you aren't selective in your exposure targets, there's a good chance you may have relapses of WS anger in recovery as the results of those exposures trickle in late. On the other hand, if you are selective about your exposure targets, there's a good chance your exposure will be ineffective.

Given the options -- anger by the wayward spouse in recovery or an unrecovered marriage -- I choose the latter and say "shotgun away"! Just go in eyes-open: yeah, exposure doesn't just make wayward spouses furiuos at the time, it often makes them furious again down the line.

Last edited by Barnboy; 11/28/09 03:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by Barnboy
QFT == "Quoted For Truth"

If you aren't selective in your exposure targets, there's a good chance you may have relapses of WS anger in recovery as the results of those exposures trickle in late. On the other hand, if you are selective about your exposure targets, there's a good chance your exposure will be ineffective.

Given the options -- anger by the wayward spouse in recovery or an unrecovered marriage -- I choose the latter and say "shotgun away"! Just go in eyes-open: yeah, exposure doesn't just make wayward spouses furiuos at the time, it often makes them furious again down the line.

Anger over exposure is a sign of an UNRECOVERED wayward. A recovered wayward is not angry about it; rather he/she is embarrassed she put the BS in that position in the first place. Anger over exposure is anger over having to face the consequences of her behavior. A distinct sign of someone who is not recovered and is still FOGGY.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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In other words, if the WS is "angry" over exposure, it is not the exposure that is preventing recovery but an unrecovered, foggy mind who is still furious about having to face the consequences of her affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
As you already know, I�m a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency�letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others -- especially those who care for you the most -- should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you�holding you accountable.

So when a betrayed spouse asks for my advice, I usually take the position that infidelity is the greatest betrayal of all. After an affair, trust -- an essential ingredient in marriage -- is dashed. If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
Exposure


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Barnboy
Originally Posted by Sh0cked
Exposure is a great tool that should be use with precision. The shotgun approach can make things more difficult in recovery.


QFT. The trouble is figuring out who will actually have an impact on the wayward's mind, and who won't. The exposure targets I thought would have the most influence didn't, and one incidental exposure that I just thought would be a good idea one day ended up being pivotal in ending my FWW's affair.

EDIT to clarify: I agree with the sentiment that a shotgun approach causes problems during recovery. I disagree that you can know who the appropriate exposure targets ARE at the time. I tried to expose to every single friend my FWW had, and this one person was the one who most helped change FWW's mind. You can't know who is going to be able to influence her, so everybody you can think of who might currently have any sort of contact with her should know.

What about an exposure letter to the OM's employer? One would think companies such as the one he works for (a tech firm) would have morals clauses in their employment contracts.

Even if the company itself isn't subject to public exposure, having one of their employees under suspicion might cause them to bring him in and have a discussion with him...


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Tell everyone. Who cares what the neighbors...or anyone else....thinks.

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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
Tell everyone. Who cares what the neighbors...or anyone else....thinks.

Plan B, or Operation Blitzkrieg as I'm calling this phase of it, has begun.

This evening I sent an email to three of the neighbor ladies I know WW spoke with. I have already received a response from one, offering to forward it on to two others.

I sent another email to WW's oldest and dearest friend. ODF was Matron of Honor at our wedding.

In a few moments, I am going to write a letter (not an email) and send it to the HR department at OM's work. Companies usually have morals clauses, and even if they don't, someone conducting immoral and illegal (yes, adultery is a criminal misdemeanor, although it's rarely prosecuted) activity does not reflect well on a company. Especially once they've been apprised of the activity.

I put in a phone call to WW's FXH. He was not there, but I spoke with DS13, and learned that WW has not visited with her kids in a while (small wonder). Asked that FXH call back.

Unless someone insists, I'm not posting the messages I've sent. I'm a pretty good writer (part of my job is to write professionally), so I feel I have done well enough: no crying or whining, just "the facts, Ma'am," and laid everything on the table. If someone thinks they would benefit by reading them, let me know.

Now off to draft the letter to OM's company...


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Good job, Fred! Now, just wait for the explosion. She will be furious, so just prepare for it and you won't be disappointed. When she calls you up screaming, just say "I am sorry you are upset, I was just spreading the good news. " Don't allow her to bait you into a fight.

Good show!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Good job, Fred! Now, just wait for the explosion. She will be furious, so just prepare for it and you won't be disappointed. When she calls you up screaming, just say "I am sorry you are upset, I was just spreading the good news. " Don't allow her to bait you into a fight.

Good show!

She only has two days in which to call. After that, Plan B goes into effect, and the "no contact" rule is put into place.

But, while I'm on the subject, I have now drafted the letter to OM's employer. What do you think?

Quote
Dear Sir or Madam:

The purpose of this letter is to inform you that one of your employees, Mr. _______ _. ________, currently residing at Street address, city, state & zip, is currently engaging in an extramarital affair with my wife, Mrs. S_____ _____.

While I understand this is not an issue with which Companyname is directly concerned, companies that are publicly traded typically have morals clauses in their employment contracts. Even if Companyname has no such clauses, an employee engaging in illegal and immoral activities is certainly taking career-limiting steps, and his honesty and character should be questioned. As a company, Companyname can not ignore this type of behavior on the part of their employees, especially when such behavior has been brought to their attention. Investors in Companyname might take a dim view of such disregard.

Adultery in the Commonwealth of Virginia is a Class IV Misdemeanor (Virginia Code � 18.2-365). Failing to act upon this information could result in Companyname being named as a willing and knowledgeable accomplice. I have retained counsel, and may choose to pursue this case. I have documentary and photographic evidence proving this affair.

I do not wish to bring Companyname into the personal difficulty between myself and my wife. But as long as Mr. ________ continues to commit adultery with my wife (my understanding is that he is also married), I must pursue any and all options available to me.

You can reach me at the address given above if you wish to discuss this matter further. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,


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Originally Posted by Zelmo
I liked your second draft the best. The thirs, with the allusions to you own contributions may or may not be true. Not every BS was a major contributor to pre-A problems.
If you really consider yourself to have been a contriibutor to a bad environment in the marriage, the third draft isfine. If not and it was all or mainly her, I would not lie about that.

Zelmo, I liked the third letter exactly because it DOES address my faults and shortcomings in the marriage. To a "T".


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Fred, I like it! My only suggestion would be to address that to the Director of HR and be sure and cc a key VP along with the OM's supervisor. If there is a cc on it, no one will give into the urge to file it in the trash can. They will all know the other knows.

My company will not fire someone for having an affair outside of the employee pool, but most hiring managers do not want cheaters on the payroll. It could definitely affect his career.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Mind you, I may have misinterpreted the reading, but expose does not mean that you need to add the sorid details. In fact, I believe a short, honest statement about your situation and you intentions for recovery are the most dignified.

Be dignified in an disrespectful situation.
Do not fear at all about telling the truth.

"How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world."


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Him; H 46

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Fred, I like it! My only suggestion would be to address that to the Director of HR and be sure and cc a key VP along with the OM's supervisor. If there is a cc on it, no one will give into the urge to file it in the trash can. They will all know the other knows.

My company will not fire someone for having an affair outside of the employee pool, but most hiring managers do not want cheaters on the payroll. It could definitely affect his career.

That's a good point, ML. On the company web site, only four executives are listed (I do not know to whom OM reports directly): The President & CEO, the COO, the CFO and the General Counsel/Corporate Secretary. I'm inclined to cc the latter, but I'm unsure if he's the correct one.


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Originally Posted by barbiecat
Mind you, I may have misinterpreted the reading, but expose does not mean that you need to add the sorid details. In fact, I believe a short, honest statement about your situation and you intentions for recovery are the most dignified.

Be dignified in an disrespectful situation.
Do not fear at all about telling the truth.

"How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world."

Barbie, are you referring to the letter to the OM's employer? What sordid details did I include? I referenced fact and cited statute.

Oh, to all: I added the following sentence just before the final line:

Quote
My single request of Companyname is that you notify me if and when you speak with Mr. ________, and if he agrees to immediately terminate the affair.


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All:

I have added the following line immediately following the three requirements for reconciliation:

Quote
If you agree to the above, then send me an email to my Yahoo! account with �I�m ready� as the subject line, and the date, time and location you would like to meet to discuss our future.

I felt that if I said not to contact me, she needed a way to do so if and when she's ready to discuss our future.


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Okay, Just wanted to make sure you were not one of the perfect/faultless types, like me. smile

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Plan B (as in Blitzkrieg) continues...

I emailed all my WW's neighbor friends (and received two replies already!).
I emailed my WW's oldest, dearest friend.
I drafted a letter to OM's corporate HR dept (with cc: to Corporate Counsel).
I drafted a letter to OM's "landlady" (for lack of a better word).
I called WW's XH and left message asking him to call me.
I wrote letter to WW's XH, in case he does not.
Will call WW's oldest DD22 tomorrow.
Having been talking in AA meetings. Using words "affair" and buzzwords: relapse, insanity and "dry drunk."

Tomorrow is Sunday, so no postal service. Monday (moving day), I will send the following:

Letter to OM's employer.
Letter to OM's landlady.
Plan B Letter to WW c/o OM's address, with delivery confirmation.
Plan B Letter to OM with delivery confirmation.
Letter to WW's XH.
And will call WW's oldest D.

Extra copy of Plan B letter to hand to her if/when she departs Monday.

I think I got a lot done today. Did I miss anything? Or anyone?

She has been silent today. No calls or texts, but that's not unexpected. However, a check of her phone records shows very little activity. That is unusual.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
St. Francis of Assissi
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