It looks like you got everyone.

Just remember--ignore the venom she will spew when the mess falls down around her head.

Deny, deny, fog, fog, fog, deny, venom, how dare you, venom, fog, I will never trust you again.

That's pretty much what you will hear.

Just ignore it.

Fred. I have no problem with your telling his employer. But, as a lawyer, I just cannot see any theory under which a corporation would have any criminal responsibility for the affair of its employee. I'd lose that part,and, perhaps, if you have knowledge of him using company resources, like e-mail or phne time or the like, point this out to the company.

Thanks for your input, as always, Zelmo. I need to re-read the letter, then. I thought I wasn't trying to put them on the hook legally, but that being a knowing accomplice to dishonesty and immorality might not bode well with investors and public opinion.

My tack was to approach them on the "morals clause" that many companies (especially publicly-traded ones) include in their employment contracts. Would not a company want to act if they learn one of their employees is behaving in a manner inconsistent with their policies?

This is on my agenda to do today, and I confess, I'm very nervous about doing so. Her DD22 and I have not been close, and DD22 was diagnosed with BPD. I am thinking of jotting down "talking points" to use during the call. Something along the lines of

• Saying I know she loves her mother, and I'm not trying to come between them or enlist her as an ally.
• Just the facts, because it's certain she doesn't know them all.

What scares me is what her reaction might be. I want to remain calm and level-headed, but DD22 is not the most logical thinker (perhaps an inherited trait?).

I will make the call. And know with full certainty that she will tell WW. So I want it to be RIGHT.

Fred, you are doing great! Keep up the good work, friend.

a friend of Bill,

Mel

Fred, appeal to her for HELP. Tell her something like this:

Sally, I am calling to ask for your advice with a problem with your mother. I know you and your mother are very close so I am asking for your help. My heart is broken because she is having an affair with Joe Blow. I felt that you had a right to know the truth of the situation since you are affected by this too. The affair started in June and your mother is moving out on Monday. I don't want to lose your mother and wondered if you had any suggestions?

See, with family members if you ask for their ADVICE, they tend to buy in and want to help you. That is not a guarantee, though. Many will blow you off. And that is ok! It is an expectation. You find out who your real friends are in a situation like this.

One big watch out is exposure targets who want to keep it a SECRET. They say "ok, I won't tell her i know!!" NONONO!! Tell them absolutely not to keep it secret. Affairs thrive on secrecy and that is why you are calling. Keeping it secret defeats the purpose.

Don't get discouraged if someone is not supportive or says something stupid like "I just want her to be happy." [translation: I don't give a damn and don't want to get involved. this is a person who doesn't care that she is engaging in very self destructive behavior] Even if someone is not supportive of your cause, just the fact that everyone knows will cause pressure on the affair.

ML, I like the suggestion, but I don't know if it sounds like me. The goal is exposure, right? Perhaps I can ask for her advice, but I don't know that I want to lead with that approach. Do you understand what I'm saying?

My sense is that DD22 knows about the OM. I just don't know how much she knows. I thought if I just gave her the facts, she could then use it in whatever manner she wished. Telling DD22 that I don't want to lose her mother is good -- because it's the truth -- but since DD22 and I aren't close, I don't know if there's a buy-in to this.

Fred, you know her better and you know yourself better; so just what you think best! Like you said, the purpose is exposure. You do want her on your side, if possible.

I just called and got her VM. Asked her to call or text me. Said I wanted to speak with her.

If I get no response I'll try again this afternoon.

Yesterday, I was so energized about the steps I was taking to expose the A. Today I'm much less so. I'm trembling and uncertain.

Phooey. This sucks.

A thought just occurred to me: What if she won't take my call? WW's XH hasn't returned my call, either. It's quite possible they don't want to have anything to do with me.

Fred, to me, A BPD daughter and her XH, are secondary exposure targets. So, if it does not pan out, probably not a big deal.
You wife is nuts, right now, looking at big houses, and just acting like an idiot. Honestly, she sounds dysphoric, as many disordered types are when under stress.
My XW was nuts, as well. SHe had plans to move my 2 boys, one disabled, to a remote part of our state(we lived in MInneapolis) to be with her lover, an aging hippy that had a Karaoke machine bar lounge act(she hooked up with him while we were on vactaion with our kids).
These people teally have flipped and dealing with them is impossible. Youjust have to lay doen as many negative consequences as possible.
If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the finanacial consequences vs the exposure in your wife's case. Do both, but I bet the lack of $$ hits her hardest.

Again Z, you are right on target, I think. Sometimes I don't want to hear what you have to say, but I value your insight since you seem to have so many of my issues pegged.

I agree that the $$ are likely to be the big wedge. I don't know how much the OM earns, but with kids, a wife (perhaps soon to be ex) and the support costs, he can't be in a great position. I know he's not an executive, but a mid-level tech manager. And he's a "player."

I've taken her off my health insurance (her coverage lasts to the end of Dec.) and won't be paying for gas, child support, phone bills, or any other expense in her massive portfolio.

My guess is that she's said her "good-byes" to the neighbor ladies, and anyone else the two of us know "in the rooms." My biggest hope is the letter to the OM's employer, hoping they will apply pressure on him to terminate the affair.

If I can get the XH to apply restrictions to WW's visitation with her kids, that might also have an impact.

I'm having a rough day.

Yesterday I felt like I had accomplished a lot. I had written letters exposing the A to everyone I could think of. I sent emails where possible. I even received a couple of replies.

Today I feel empty. It's a gorgeous day and I tried going for a run. I got two miles (my usual is 6.5) and gave up. I came in for some food and football, hoping to raise my mood level.

Action was needed. I printed off letters and envelopes. I have ready to mail:

1 Plan B letter to WW
1 Plan B letter to OM, with PS from SAA
1 Letter to OM's W
1 Letter to OM's landlady
1 Letter to OM's employer -- CEO
1 Letter to OM's employer -- General Counsel
1 Letter to OM's employer -- Director, HR
1 Letter to WW's FXH
1 Letter to WW's oldest D

When I go to the Post Office tomorrow to mail them, the two Plan B letters will be sent with Delivery Confirmation. The others will be First Class mail.

So, I've done something.

I'm dithering about contacting WW. No word at all from her yesterday or today. Tomorrow is move-out day. I'm undecided if I should call/text her under Plan A ("How do you like the game?" "Did you watch our favorite show the other night?"), ask her if she plans to come and pick up her things before the clock strikes midnight, or say nothing.

Paralysis is causing me to do nothing. Maybe that's why I'm feeling so empty today.

UPDATE:

Plan B goes into effect tomorrow. I sent WW a "Plan A" txt message and we finally got around to when she was coming to clear out her things. She asked if we could talk about her access to things. I simply replied that I had it written out and would give it to her tomorrow.

I hope I can be cordial and calm as she's moving out.

She has told me she's coming by tomorrow to "clean out her closet." She also asked if we could talk about what was "acceptable" to me to allow her access to the other things she's leaving here.

I simply told her I had written out my requirements and would give the letter to her tomorrow. If she squawks about my conditions I'm just going to remind her that she had five weeks to move out.

Make sure you have someone else there with you as she moves out so 1) you won't be tempted to do anything rash and 2) she can't attempt anything rash and accuse you of it.

As to contacting you when she's ready. Don't. Have it be a MUTUAL friend who supported the marriage. If one of those do not exist, just a friend you trust yourself. Do not give her a way to bug you with idle chatter. You'll never know when you should be answering the phone or ignoring it. So leave that part to a friend because the friend won't be emotionally pummeled every time she calls.

Is PSUBIKER on? He could help advise you on this.

Monc is right, HAVE A FRIEND WITH YOU. So she cannot allege you abused her.

Also, make sure that the plan to repair your marriage is mentioned and that it is the plan you need in place to repair the marriage and not just ensure NC. There is so much more to fixing it all than NC, which can be MB counseling, following MB principles such as spending time together, sharing in each others emotional needs and such. Make sure that this letter defines what you need, because as I was told in my thread by Mark, you can't raise the bar latter once she comes back. If you try to add anything more she'll balk and your chances will go down.

Also, do you understand/know about the extraordinary precautions to ensure NC? Such things as being willing to move, change jobs, deactivate all modes of communication that the OM can use to contact with? Make sure that is in there so that when/if she comes back you can explain that as well. Don't go into detail what extraordinary precautions are in the letter of course. This way when/if she comes back you have a wedge in the door to expand upon your needs. Being specifically "general" will help you a great deal like a blanket statement that you can trim latter.